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In a totally new place and need perspective? Cedar? Anyone?
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 664718" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Yay!</p><p></p><p>I love it that you write, too. I thought you did. I remember when you published your first one. Ha! I'd forgotten or lost track of that. I wish you every success, Serenity.</p><p></p><p>Every single success, and much joy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, good. Then you will know just how to begin.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Twenty is very young, to have committed to remembering a confidence as a sin.</p><p></p><p>Whatever the confidence consisted of Serenity, it isn't as though you told your mother to shame your sister. A mother must practice discretion. <em>It was your mother's job to thank you for trusting her enough to give her the information so, knowing, she could respond correctly to your sister's needs.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Your mother betrayed a confidence.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Both your sister and yourself were betrayed by your mother in this instance.</em></p><p></p><p><em>My mother would do something like this, and celebrate the schism she'd created between her daughters.</em></p><p></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p>We all do the things we do, both as young kids and as oldsters. Probably the only time in our lives we are interested in stability and mortgages and stuff is when we have children to protect.</p><p></p><p>I feel badly for your sister, and for you too. Dysfunctional mothers commit such nasty, hurtful things against their own daughters. </p><p></p><p>You know what, Serenity? I was just thinking about what I said to my sister, on that last phone call. She said she loved me. Her words had the flavor of ~ I don't know. Something like triumph. Like, that she loved me caged or legitimized some label or trapped me somehow, into how she sees me, into who she needs me and D H and my children to be, instead of who we are.</p><p></p><p>Like there could not be anything wrong with the way she needs to see me because she loves me.</p><p></p><p>Yet, her actions, and the way she needs to see me, and my people, speak of hatred.</p><p></p><p>I can't explain it more clearly. I don't understand it myself, but that was the flavor of it.</p><p></p><p>My response was: "I love you, too. I love you too much to love you this way."</p><p></p><p>That is ~ well, you will be the only one to know ~ but that seems to be what you are saying too, about how you feel about your sister. I sense that with Copa, too. We do love them, wholeheartedly. We love them too much to love them the way they insist it must be.</p><p></p><p>Now, we seem, here on the FOO Chronicles, to have been able to unravel a little of how hatred sort of sizzles through everything in how our Families of Origin interact. You have posted for us much information on family roles, and on the disbalance of families that are dysfunctional work. I have never forgotten that article you posted on the difference between functional and dysfunctional families being a question of fluidity of roles. In the dysfunctional family, there will be one person labeled scapegoat, one labeled Golden Child, one labeled something else.</p><p></p><p>No fluidity allowed. None of us allowed to feel mean one day and happy one day and loving one day; nothing real, then. No trust, and the abuser determined to see to it that never changes, even after her death.</p><p></p><p>I expect that my own mother will do what she can to enforce that.</p><p></p><p>I remember the last time my mom created dissension in our family. Her take on it was that if Cedar does not want to be part of this family, then she is out.</p><p></p><p>My own mother actually said that.</p><p></p><p>My sister told me.</p><p></p><p>So...I wonder whether that is true for all of us ~ those words I told my sister. "I love you too much to love you this way."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is what I know about that. Daughter has been where she has been, especially over the past four years. I really do love my grands. We were instrumental people in their upraising. But when daughter was gone...I could not step into the role of their mother for any of my grands. I am not their mother. Daughters, especially, need their <em>mothers. </em>As my daughter has come back, she has been able to bring first her children physically and then, her family, back. </p><p></p><p>Mother is the core of the family.</p><p></p><p>Not sister.</p><p></p><p>Not grandmother.</p><p></p><p>I think what you did was courageous, Serenity. I am certain you thought long and hard before, as the oldest sister, and with protective, almost maternal feelings toward your younger sister, you told your mother what her behavior was doing to your sister. but like it seems to be for me and for Copa too, Serenity...our sisters resent us <em>because</em> we were not their mothers. They may resent us because they cannot consciously acknowledge their resentment of the mother. So, they deflect that resentment they feel for their mothers onto us, onto the pseudo mother we were in our families of origin. Never the mother, abused by the mother, but serving as mother to them as best we could know because the real mother was an abusive, cruel little poop.</p><p></p><p>I'm sorry to say so, Serenity, but your mom should never, ever, have betrayed your confidence. She should have taken your words as the wake up call they were and begun mothering her youngest daughter appropriately <em>but she hurt her youngest daughter, instead.</em></p><p></p><p><em>And then, they both blamed you for it.</em> When in fact, you were doing what you, and what each of us routinely did for our sibs: Try to save them. Try to fill in for the irresponsible, abusive mother.</p><p></p><p>But just as it is with my daughter's family too Serenity, only my daughter is her children's mother. I cannot be Mother. I could not be Mother to my sibs. And though there was some small comfort to be taken in the cooking or cleaning or loving I did for my sibs, the one they wanted to love and advise them...was their mother. Not me. To be in a position of needing mothering badly enough to accept the substitute, the pseudo mom's mothering would create shame, too. A different kind of shame than we know, but a deep, hurtful shame and all kinds of resentment.</p><p></p><p>That is how it seems to me that the dysfunctions still roiling away at the heart of my family of origin work, to this day.</p><p></p><p>Remember my posting that my mother had told me how she enjoyed watching the jealousy between my sister and myself over our mother? It is possible that my mom has been stoking that particular fire with all her heart, since my father's death.</p><p></p><p>I cannot fight this. I cannot change this. It may be that my sister has less freedom in all of it than even I do.</p><p></p><p>So that is why I think what I told my sister, and how I see my sister, is a good resting place for these puzzling things that keep happening, that seem to be hatred, and that we don't understand.</p><p></p><p>"I love you too much to love you this way."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, Serenity, but it seems to me that your mom made certain your sister would believe she had been betrayed, and that she did everything in her power, as my mother is too, to prevent the family coming together.</p><p></p><p>Ever.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can only speak to what went on in my family. My sister called me Serenity, because her real mother hates her. In her heart, my sister knows her mother will weaken and dominate and hate and subvert. But we all need our mothers. </p><p></p><p>We do.</p><p></p><p>I do, too. That is why I have Maya and the black lady from Matrix and Lisa Vanderpump.</p><p></p><p>For our sisters, pseudo mom will do...but our sisters will hate us for that, for the need of that; for the shame in that desperately unacknowledged need of a mother who loves her when what she has is a mother who hates.</p><p> </p><p>To me, that is what it seems like. </p><p></p><p>Which doesn't mean my sister doesn't hate me. She does. It's like everything is all mixed up for us. Love and hate and shame and need and hope and rejection.</p><p></p><p>Thanks, mom.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Love, and hate, and a wish for healing between you and hate again and rejection. A desperate need to name you, to scapegoat you, as she was taught was the right thing by her mother. A wish to shame you as her need of you ~ her need for the comfort pseudo mom can and does provide and for which she hates her, because to take comfort there she must acknowledge, on some level, that her real mother is a terribly sick woman, and this shames her.</p><p></p><p>Thanks, mom.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is true. A family member would never celebrate any kind of bad thing happening to their loved ones, to their people.</p><p></p><p>But my family of origin did.</p><p></p><p>So does yours.</p><p></p><p>Copa's? Copa will post in for herself about this, maybe, if she has time.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel this way too, about my own family of origin.</p><p></p><p>Remember that D H tells me I will always need to be wary, especially once my mother has died.</p><p></p><p>There will be such confusion then, for my sister.</p><p></p><p>Could this be part of what motivates your own sister do you think, Serenity?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I will post too, when I need you to help me. It is good to know you will be there, that you will be checking in every so often.</p><p></p><p>Thank you, Serenity.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 664718, member: 17461"] Yay! I love it that you write, too. I thought you did. I remember when you published your first one. Ha! I'd forgotten or lost track of that. I wish you every success, Serenity. Every single success, and much joy. Oh, good. Then you will know just how to begin. Twenty is very young, to have committed to remembering a confidence as a sin. Whatever the confidence consisted of Serenity, it isn't as though you told your mother to shame your sister. A mother must practice discretion. [I]It was your mother's job to thank you for trusting her enough to give her the information so, knowing, she could respond correctly to your sister's needs.[/I] [I]Your mother betrayed a confidence.[/I] [I]Both your sister and yourself were betrayed by your mother in this instance.[/I] [I]My mother would do something like this, and celebrate the schism she'd created between her daughters.[/I] [I] [/I] We all do the things we do, both as young kids and as oldsters. Probably the only time in our lives we are interested in stability and mortgages and stuff is when we have children to protect. I feel badly for your sister, and for you too. Dysfunctional mothers commit such nasty, hurtful things against their own daughters. You know what, Serenity? I was just thinking about what I said to my sister, on that last phone call. She said she loved me. Her words had the flavor of ~ I don't know. Something like triumph. Like, that she loved me caged or legitimized some label or trapped me somehow, into how she sees me, into who she needs me and D H and my children to be, instead of who we are. Like there could not be anything wrong with the way she needs to see me because she loves me. Yet, her actions, and the way she needs to see me, and my people, speak of hatred. I can't explain it more clearly. I don't understand it myself, but that was the flavor of it. My response was: "I love you, too. I love you too much to love you this way." That is ~ well, you will be the only one to know ~ but that seems to be what you are saying too, about how you feel about your sister. I sense that with Copa, too. We do love them, wholeheartedly. We love them too much to love them the way they insist it must be. Now, we seem, here on the FOO Chronicles, to have been able to unravel a little of how hatred sort of sizzles through everything in how our Families of Origin interact. You have posted for us much information on family roles, and on the disbalance of families that are dysfunctional work. I have never forgotten that article you posted on the difference between functional and dysfunctional families being a question of fluidity of roles. In the dysfunctional family, there will be one person labeled scapegoat, one labeled Golden Child, one labeled something else. No fluidity allowed. None of us allowed to feel mean one day and happy one day and loving one day; nothing real, then. No trust, and the abuser determined to see to it that never changes, even after her death. I expect that my own mother will do what she can to enforce that. I remember the last time my mom created dissension in our family. Her take on it was that if Cedar does not want to be part of this family, then she is out. My own mother actually said that. My sister told me. So...I wonder whether that is true for all of us ~ those words I told my sister. "I love you too much to love you this way." This is what I know about that. Daughter has been where she has been, especially over the past four years. I really do love my grands. We were instrumental people in their upraising. But when daughter was gone...I could not step into the role of their mother for any of my grands. I am not their mother. Daughters, especially, need their [I]mothers. [/I]As my daughter has come back, she has been able to bring first her children physically and then, her family, back. Mother is the core of the family. Not sister. Not grandmother. I think what you did was courageous, Serenity. I am certain you thought long and hard before, as the oldest sister, and with protective, almost maternal feelings toward your younger sister, you told your mother what her behavior was doing to your sister. but like it seems to be for me and for Copa too, Serenity...our sisters resent us [I]because[/I] we were not their mothers. They may resent us because they cannot consciously acknowledge their resentment of the mother. So, they deflect that resentment they feel for their mothers onto us, onto the pseudo mother we were in our families of origin. Never the mother, abused by the mother, but serving as mother to them as best we could know because the real mother was an abusive, cruel little poop. I'm sorry to say so, Serenity, but your mom should never, ever, have betrayed your confidence. She should have taken your words as the wake up call they were and begun mothering her youngest daughter appropriately [I]but she hurt her youngest daughter, instead.[/I] [I]And then, they both blamed you for it.[/I] When in fact, you were doing what you, and what each of us routinely did for our sibs: Try to save them. Try to fill in for the irresponsible, abusive mother. But just as it is with my daughter's family too Serenity, only my daughter is her children's mother. I cannot be Mother. I could not be Mother to my sibs. And though there was some small comfort to be taken in the cooking or cleaning or loving I did for my sibs, the one they wanted to love and advise them...was their mother. Not me. To be in a position of needing mothering badly enough to accept the substitute, the pseudo mom's mothering would create shame, too. A different kind of shame than we know, but a deep, hurtful shame and all kinds of resentment. That is how it seems to me that the dysfunctions still roiling away at the heart of my family of origin work, to this day. Remember my posting that my mother had told me how she enjoyed watching the jealousy between my sister and myself over our mother? It is possible that my mom has been stoking that particular fire with all her heart, since my father's death. I cannot fight this. I cannot change this. It may be that my sister has less freedom in all of it than even I do. So that is why I think what I told my sister, and how I see my sister, is a good resting place for these puzzling things that keep happening, that seem to be hatred, and that we don't understand. "I love you too much to love you this way." I'm sorry, Serenity, but it seems to me that your mom made certain your sister would believe she had been betrayed, and that she did everything in her power, as my mother is too, to prevent the family coming together. Ever. I can only speak to what went on in my family. My sister called me Serenity, because her real mother hates her. In her heart, my sister knows her mother will weaken and dominate and hate and subvert. But we all need our mothers. We do. I do, too. That is why I have Maya and the black lady from Matrix and Lisa Vanderpump. For our sisters, pseudo mom will do...but our sisters will hate us for that, for the need of that; for the shame in that desperately unacknowledged need of a mother who loves her when what she has is a mother who hates. To me, that is what it seems like. Which doesn't mean my sister doesn't hate me. She does. It's like everything is all mixed up for us. Love and hate and shame and need and hope and rejection. Thanks, mom. Love, and hate, and a wish for healing between you and hate again and rejection. A desperate need to name you, to scapegoat you, as she was taught was the right thing by her mother. A wish to shame you as her need of you ~ her need for the comfort pseudo mom can and does provide and for which she hates her, because to take comfort there she must acknowledge, on some level, that her real mother is a terribly sick woman, and this shames her. Thanks, mom. That is true. A family member would never celebrate any kind of bad thing happening to their loved ones, to their people. But my family of origin did. So does yours. Copa's? Copa will post in for herself about this, maybe, if she has time. I feel this way too, about my own family of origin. Remember that D H tells me I will always need to be wary, especially once my mother has died. There will be such confusion then, for my sister. Could this be part of what motivates your own sister do you think, Serenity? I will post too, when I need you to help me. It is good to know you will be there, that you will be checking in every so often. Thank you, Serenity. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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