19 1/2 Year Old Struggling With Complex Developmental Challenges

[BusynMember]

I dont blame the parents or school. Some kids seem to be violent just due to brain differences. I mean, I'm sure jeffrey dahmers parents, even if they struggled, didnt teach him to kill and dismantle animals as a child then murder and eat children. Nobody really knows why certain people are different...whether it is being exceptionally gifted in a good way or do bad, violent things. Most kids see violence in school, on television, in the movies etc and dont become violent.

If this is due to a cognitive,
/developmental issues the best help I know of in the U.S. is what I learned when I advocated for my autistic son. Do get the schools involved. Our sons high school did half the work, bless them.

Contact your county's aging and disabilities to have him tested as disabled. It doesnt sound as if it will be that hard with your sons school record. The schools take on his behavior will greatly help. If he gets SSI, he also qualifies for other services to help him. He clear ly is not going to live as an adult without help. Not now anyway. I would give it a try. A diagnosis helps. Id take him to a private neuropsycologist. They are great diagnosticians and ours knew what to put down to help Disability accept son.

Hugs for your hurting heart.

 

[RN0441]

Good Lord!! Hoping it doesn't take that long. He may have to ripen on a vine outside of my house somewhere else.
Cant wait to see what he turns out to be though. That'll be interesting!

OMG that made me laugh out loud!!

 

[Copabanana]

Welcome, Tbod. I have nothing special to add but want to say Hi.

Many of the issues you are dealing with we dealt with too. Developmental issues. The possibility of Aspergers was raised. ADHD. Anxiety. Uneven social development. I fought against the ED label and only lost in his last High School year, and pulled him out of school. He finished at an independent, private high school.

My son is now 27. I will look back at the last 8 years and try to summarize what I tried and what may have worked and did not.

I thought of the military too, but then my son was diagnosed with a chronic illness that precluded enlistment. Looking back I do not think he could have done the military or would of.

I pushed him into Job Corps which he did successfully complete (a residential, jobs program run by the government which is free.) He completed it because I set that as a condition of his coming home. He selected the shortest program and raced through it. He had problems adjusting to the diversity of the population of students there many of whom come from violent backgrounds.

For a long time I regretted allowing my son to come home after Job Corps, because nothing seemed to come of it. He did complete a year of community college but everything seemed half-hearted. I then pushed him to complete a nurse's aid training and he did work about 15 months in a psychiatric treatment center, but his emotional state went downhill. He walked away from the job. At that point in his life he could not sustain the demands.

That started the hardest phase. He was depressed and negative and hostile but I would not tolerate him doing nothing in the house. I pushed him out. He lived for a couple years with friends of the family, and applied and successfully got SSI.

Why I tell you all of this is because I think, looking back, I tried to micro-manage everything, and felt responsible for everything, felt like what I did or thought or did not do or did not think had an effect on changing the result.

I do not think it was about me. It was about my son and what were his attitudes, decisions, and motivation. Looking back he controlled everything. Me nothing.

It was, the whole process, an unfolding of how he wanted to mature given who he was, and chose to be.

My only role in it (rightful role) was to decide what I would accept and would not.

Our kids are their own engines of being. We need just get out of the way. That is what I think now.

My son is with us now. He is helping M, my SO remodel 2 houses. One we bought with the idea that he rent part of it. I could never have imagined how motivated he is to conform to our wishes. It just keeps evolving and evolving. He is motivated to stay close to us and to avoid the street. I forgot to add that part. It ended up that he was homeless in 4 counties, over the past 2 to 3 years. That, more than anything else, changed him. He does not any more want to be homeless.

To end, I believe that life is what changes our children, their decisions about how they want to live. And the only way they learn what they want is experiencing the consequences.

I am hopeful now. Because I see that my son can and will change if it suits him to do so--but he will not change how and when I want him to be. Who knows what more he will change, when the desire to do so is lit? It is not my desire or pain that will light that fire. Only his.

That is the lesson we learn here.

 

[Copabanana]

Let me add this: I think the biggest mover in my son's impetus to change was my putting strong boundaries. More than even the homelessness. I followed through with limiting contact. I would not call him and I would not speak to him if he insisted on dominating me in phone calls. Somehow, this triggered something in him, I think. A decision to control himself? I do not know. Then when he saw (and I saw) that he could and would decide to change, to accommodate me, everything changed.

He is not what I hoped for him, hoped would be. He dresses like a homeless person. With a hoody.

He has no real desire to resume college. He does not aspire to work, but he is working for us on an unpaid basis, because he wants to conform to our expectations. He sees this as best for him. It is push-pull, but he keeps deciding to continue. But we have to be hard-lined. I am learning that hard-line and clear works best.

But he is again, himself, the child I raised. Even loving, kind, compassionate. Happier.

For me, for now, this is way enough. I will deal with my own feelings of any regret or fear. That is what I have learned here.

 

[Copabanana]

The other thing is the maturation factor. My son is 27. I believe this is the age where there is enough brain maturation to allow our male children to catch a clue. I believed this before my son turned 27 but hardly even dreamed it work work in our case.

I do not want to suggest miracles here, but it is better now.

 

[tbod]

The other thing is the maturation factor. My son is 27. I believe this is the age where there is enough brain maturation to allow our male children to catch a clue. I believed this before my son turned 27 but hardly even dreamed it work work in our case.

I do not want to suggest miracles here, but it is better now.

Thanks for that insight wrt maturity factors. I've read that before. Just don't have the patience and sanity to wait any longer. Been a long very very hard road to date. So, took him to his narcotics counseling today and then to his psychologist....weekly stuff. Had a lot to download with the psychiatric today. He nearly was expelled this last Thursday (final 2 weeks of his senior year) due to aggressive hostile behavior against another kid....was fired two weeks ago from last job due to fighting some coworker in the parking lot after work.. Cant make this stuff up. He's been to anger counseling for nearly 3 years now..and when in the moment..he data dumps everything he's learned. Also, just got in the mail a court summons for him to appear in Aug for a marijuana possession charge last Oct. Finally popped up in the system. Has a court date on 6 June also to close out a marijuana related incident that happened last Sep. its like this endless dark cloud. Anyway, in my discussions with the psychiatric today...stated that I'm seeing lots of recommendations to seek a neropsych to which he stated..that all that will happen in the testing is to confirm what we already know about my son to date (pre-frontal cortex related delays...constant anger/ADHD/cycling behavior/impulsivity/poor decision making/attention seeking behavior and general delayed development overall....followed by recommendation to start medications. That's where things will come off the tracks. Been down the medications alley for years. He was on at least 10 that I can recall. Nothing touched his issues with the exception that he started to act on the hostile thoughts that he was surpressing with whatever control he had prior to taking medications. So, due to fact that he is 19.5 and resents like hell the medications that he was on...certainly wont do it. We're locked into a corner on all of this it seems. The psychiatric stated today that his abilty to be hold it together in the military for very long just really won't happen. So, I'm going to let my son "try" and live on his own (he really wants this I think...or at least thinks he does)...the psychiatric stated that this will likely be a distaster...but he is 19 and can do this if he wants. He cant even hold onto his pay check for more than 3 days...then he's broke. I timed it. That is the average. So, how is he going to pay rent if can't budget money or time. Tried so hard over the years. Just the angry response. "Let me manage my stuff the way I want to!!" Ok genius... you go. I say..let him do it and learn the hard way. Just for fun...took him to the gym with me after his psychiatric appointment hoping for a good work out with him...he must have slipped out of the gym and smoked it up and was a high as kite when I took him to applebys with me. You know...you get to a point where you just can't get mad anymore...just numb. He was silly and red eyed the whole time we were there. Goofy and a bit embarrassing...but I was starved...and I don't want this crap impacting my day either. I ate well!!

 

[Copabanana]

It sounds like you know and accept where this is going. My son, too will not take medications. His mood self-control, impulse control has improved radically. I believe it is maturation. He swears, too, that it is diet. May be also a great deal of exercise. Walking, walking, walking. There is thinking now that exercise and movement generally ameliorates depression/anxiety and even trauma.

So, if living alone will be a disaster--it will be his disaster. He may learn to clean up his act little by little. My son is doing a tiny bit better every month. But now he is back in our life--which is major--he used to just call the cops on us.

cant even hold onto his pay check for more than 3 days

My son, too. Better, though.

"Let me manage my stuff the way I want to!!" Ok genius... you go.

This is what has to happen. And he take the consequences. Homeless? Fine. No food? Fine. Bills unpaid? Fine.

There seems to be no other way.

Take care.

 

[tbod]

It sounds like you know and accept where this is going. My son, too will not take medications. His mood self-control, impulse control has improved radically. I believe it is maturation. He swears, too, that it is diet. May be also a great deal of exercise. Walking, walking, walking. There is thinking now that exercise and movement generally ameliorates depression/anxiety and even trauma.

So, if living alone will be a disaster--it will be his disaster. He may learn to clean up his act little by little. My son is doing a tiny bit better every month. But now he is back in our life--which is major--he used to just call the cops on us.
My son, too. Better, though.
This is what has to happen. And he take the consequences. Homeless? Fine. No food? Fine. Bills unpaid? Fine.

There seems to be no other way.

Take care.

This all means a ton to me!!. Thank you.!! Just don't know what to do anymore. We've exhausted all the options over the last 10 years or so. His psychologist basically said today..after I had suggested some kind of intense pyscho-therapy..whatever that entails...and he stated...for that to work...that the therapy has to be able to reach him at a deep enough level..where he "gets it" and can really apply it. And he stated that where my son is operating..is not where this kind of help will take hold. My son runs off of impulse mostly...doesn't have those deep empathetic thoughts...where he could begin to really connect...and deeply understand whats needed. Intellectually, my son could parrot back to you what his issues are..and what he needs to do to deal with his impulsive and often angry responses...but when it comes to applying all of the help he's received....when in the moment..he turns all of that off in favor of the angry and/or impulsive response. So, all I see is a train wreck waiting to happen. I agree with you advice.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Intellectually, my son could parrot back to you what his issues are..and what he needs to do to deal with his impulsive and often angry responses...but when it comes to applying all of the help he's received....when in the moment..he turns all of that off in favor of the angry and/or impulsive response

Close, but not quite. This is really typical (if anything is "typical") of someone on the autism spectrum. He "knows" the rules and the procedures... but he has pretty much no clue how to apply those in a real-life situation. It isn't that he "turns all that off", it's that... he really doesn't know any other way to behave.

 

[tbod]

Close, but not quite. This is really typical (if anything is "typical") of someone on the autism spectrum. He "knows" the rules and the procedures... but he has pretty much no clue how to apply those in a real-life situation. It isn't that he "turns all that off", it's that... he really doesn't know any other way to behave.

I've thought about that as well. The psychologist stated that he's not in touch at a deep enough level to be able to tie together the potential effects of what his actions could cause to be able to adjust himself in time to avoid those actions....to be able to learn from them. Nor, does he connect his past incidents and effects of those incidents to things he's doing now to be able to apply and learn from them. He basically seems to live in the absolute present (whats right in front of his face). in essence, his whole ability to tie together and associate things from the past to apply them to future potential issues is pretty much compromised. It does explain a lot. And will mean that he will take a long time to learn from some potentially painful mistakes in his future. My son told me in the car on the way home from school that day that he was nearly expelled that he really want to punch that kid and thankfully a teacher disarmed the issue..and that all he could think about was swinging at the kid...and all over a facial expression that the kid made at my son. I mean he operates at such a tightly wound level ...with such a chip on his shoulder...that it seems like he's ready to go off much of the time. And with so much at stake (a pending trial date, on the school's last nerve) that you would think he would've thought twice...but no...its like there is nothing connecting his decision to act to anything else that would convince him that the risk isn't worth it.

 

[InsaneCdn]

its like there is nothing connecting his decision to act to anything else that would convince him that the risk isn't worth it.

Exactly. There IS nothing connecting the decision and the outcome.

 

[Copabanana]

tbod, nobody knows what the outcome will be. Life is a process for everybody. Nobody knew I would turn it like I did (for good or ill.)

I do not think at his age and male, it can be in the main about diagnosis. Yet. Because it will all come out in the wash. Boys mature so late--some of them. I mean I do not grasp how 27 year old male can be entering medical residencies--when I look at my own.

So there is maturation--which will not kick in for awhile. Then add to it--very strong wills, the unwillingness to follow advice, the strong desire to do it MY WAY....your son is just itching to take on the world. There is only one way he can learn unfortunately for you, and it is suffering consequences.

Many parents on this board think it terms of differently wired. I am not yet a convert. I advocate waiting and seeing. (This will not be easy because it is hard, hard, hard to watch them run into walls. Over and over again.)

But I tell you. My son is in no way normal but his personality that he had growing up is back. He does not fight us. He tries. I find myself wanting him near me and unable to stop hugging him. (This is beyond my wildest dreams. Imagine him calling the cops on us to get us arrested one year ago, and giving my SO a black eye--after he threw him to the floor.)

We've exhausted all the options over the last 10 years or so.

The thing is--it was you guys who were exercising the options. Your son will (must) get to the point where he exercises them. This is the point.

And he stated that where my son is operating..is not where this kind of help will take hold.

This psychologist sounds both responsible and wise.

That this is the case, is neither here not there. I am someone who did years and years of insight therapy (my profession is allied to this.) In the end it was life that taught me. This will happen to your son, too.
I am hopeful because I have seen it with my son. Look at my posts, if you doubt me. I came here in April of last year. I was a wreck. (I am embarrassed that you look. I was practically whining.)

I had already kicked my son out 3 years before but I had not taken control. It is a miracle what happened when I decided I would control the interactions between us. Not him. That is what changed for me. I set the limits. And I pushed him away. I acted indifferent because I had gotten to that point. Did that get his attention.

You will get through this. So will your son. I believe that. Stop trying and let him begin to carry his weight. It is like, what do you call them, the ropes where kids are at each end and one side lets go. That is what has to happen.

 

[tbod]

I'm sometimes a bit oppositional about these kinds of statements.

They say "video doesn't lie". School LOVES to use this kind of "evidence"
Well, it does - because it does NOT tell the whole story. Like, the 19.5 years of history. Nor does it tell the prior history - this other kid may have been set up by one or more additional kids, to provoke your son, because they like seeing your son get into trouble. been there done that.

Where did your son learn to behave like this? I will pretty much guarantee that YOU didn't teach him - he didn't learn it at home. He learned it at school. Kids who are consistently bullied from a young age end up being bullies themselves. And because he has fallen between the cracks for so many years, he hasn't had the kinds of interventions that could have made a huge difference - and the interventions that WERE given (such as punishment) haven't had the intended consequences, because he is wired differently.

Yes, it's a huge problem, because the legal system assumes people are like 2x4s. There is a single set of expectations, and you either meet it, or you don't, and if you don't, you get the same consequences. There is no allowance for developmental challenges, or mental illness.

This is good insight. Thinking my son has learned this behavior from a young age ...lots of rejection and getting picked on a lot in his earlier years due to his peculiarities. That's probably where this came from. Learned that if he can adopt a tough exterior, and appear scary that folks then he can garner a sense of power over those that actually believe in this bravado. He's very insecure. However, will say that if a kid his size or bigger calls him out on this "chip on his shoulder"...kyle will back down in a heart beat. Its mostly bravado that he has. Your comment wrt the interventions is spot on. in a perfect world...it would have been great if there was such a thing as a life coach way back when..as that might have been helpful. But thats not realistic and I certainly couldn't afford someone 24/7 to steer him back on track at every fork in the road. He is an only child and since I was a career military guy..theres never been any family around to lean on. So, its really only been friends of ours and peers that he's been around. Not many examples to follow (other than mom and dad)..and you're right..with his wiring..he's not going to learn much from negative reinforcement (punishment)...never has been able to. It just doesn't work. My fear like you stated in your note..is that since he has already encountered legal issues (although relatively minor at this point), that he's on a track to repeat minor offenses until something bigger happens...unless, something clicks with him...and the light finally goes on for him before too late.

 

[tbod]

tbod, nobody knows what the outcome will be. Life is a process for everybody. Nobody knew I would turn it like I did (for good or ill.)

I do not think at his age and male, it can be in the main about diagnosis. Yet. Because it will all come out in the wash. Boys mature so late--some of them. I mean I do not grasp how 27 year old male can be entering medical residencies--when I look at my own.

So there is maturation--which will not kick in for awhile. Then add to it--very strong wills, the unwillingness to follow advice, the strong desire to do it MY WAY....your son is just itching to take on the world. There is only one way he can learn unfortunately for you, and it is suffering consequences.

Many parents on this board think it terms of differently wired. I am not yet a convert. I advocate waiting and seeing. (This will not be easy because it is hard, hard, hard to watch them run into walls. Over and over again.)

But I tell you. My son is in no way normal but his personality that he had growing up is back. He does not fight us. He tries. I find myself wanting him near me and unable to stop hugging him. (This is beyond my wildest dreams. Imagine him calling the cops on us to get us arrested one year ago, and giving my SO a black eye--after he threw him to the floor.)
The thing is--it was you guys who were exercising the options. Your son will (must) get to the point where he exercises them. This is the point.
This psychologist sounds both responsible and wise.

That this is the case, is neither here not there. I am someone who did years and years of insight therapy (my profession is allied to this.) In the end it was life that taught me. This will happen to your son, too.
I am hopeful because I have seen it with my son. Look at my posts, if you doubt me. I came here in April of last year. I was a wreck. (I am embarrassed that you look. I was practically whining.)

I had already kicked my son out 3 years before but I had not taken control. It is a miracle what happened when I decided I would control the interactions between us. Not him. That is what changed for me. I set the limits. And I pushed him away. I acted indifferent because I had gotten to that point. Did that get his attention.

You will get through this. So will your son. I believe that. Stop trying and let him begin to carry his weight. It is like, what do you call them, the ropes where kids are at each end and one side lets go. That is what has to happen.

This is great advice..thanks. Needed to hear that there is hope. I understand the issues wrt male maturity vs age. We're all different...but there are "social norms" ...as much as I dislike that term. I joined the Navy as an officer at 23 years old...but I was ready to do that. We're all different in terms of what we're capable of. In hindsight, there were some things I truly wasn't ready for at that age tho....But as far as my son goes, my hope for him is that he will have enough of the "right stuff" to manage himself through at least a somewhat happy life independent of mom and I. Right now..its nearly impossible for me to see that. But like you said....he's going to have to run into some serious walls for himself.