Advice Wanted

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Asdf, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. Asdf

    Asdf New Member

    I have a situation that has weighed heavily on my mind and I am looking for advice. I will try to make a very long story short.

    When my mother-in-law was in her mid fifties, she decided to adopt. She adopted a 2-year-old boy "K," who had a significant trauma history. He was behind on all his milestones, had major eating issues (to this day only eats a few different things) and was the overly good child. He could sit in a restaurant for hours and not make a peep. "K" is now 15. He is a loner, will not participate in activities and is doing poorly in school and has been held back. He has had prolonged bed wetting and would get up in the middle of the night and urinate all over his room. His parents said it was a "sleep walking disorder." Since she adopted my husband and I have had 4 children. When "K" was 10 I caught him harming our dog (pinching and twisting his skin to the point he was whining). When he was 6 I saw him throw a puppy. Other relatives have told me he has done things to their dogs. Other relatives have dismissed this as "normal boy behavior." I was immediately concerned about him being around my small children. Several circumstances have caused me concern. About a year ago, he squeezed my daughters leg so hard so she hysterically crying. His mother said it "was an accident." He was alone for literally 10 seconds with my 2-year-old. There was a thump and she hysterically cried for 10 minutes. He changed his story 3 times about what happened. "She just fell." "She bounced off my knee." There are several more episodes of this type of behavior. His father told us he is a pathological liar and that no consequences bother him or change his behavior. He has poor boundary issues and will get within an inch of your face at times while talking. He was constantly touching and getting too close for comfort with my daughters. He has to control everything and bosses adults around. He allegedly tried to push his grandmother down the stairs. Recently, he began following me into other rooms to try to watch me change my small children's diapers. It's not like I did it in plain view and he glanced over. He would know what I was doing, wait a few seconds, then get up, go into the room and linger behind me trying to watch. This is a 15 year old trying to watch a 3 year old diaper change. Some are saying he's "just a curious little boy."

    This entire situation has caused me so much stress and anguish. My husband finally saw this behavior was abnormal, where I noticed it years before. But again, he doesn't want to cause a rift with his mother. I diplomatically outlined my concerns to her with his behavior and said he wasn't allowed in my house anymore. She flew off the handle ... called me every name in the book, smeared me to relatives and actually kicked my husband out of her will and shut off my children's college savings accounts. She has always enabled his behavior. If someone tells him to be respectful in their house, she will not allow him to go over there. If you even look at him wrong, she will get angry and refuse to speak to you. She feels he is being targeted just because he is adopted. I told her she could visit the kids whenever she wants, but I did not want him around my kids - this was about 2 years ago. She will visit the kids maybe twice a year for a short interval. She brought "K" with her once - completely disrespecting me and what I had said. She is very secretive regarding anything about him - most of these things are what I observed first hand, so I have a feeling this is the tip of the iceberg. Since that time she said she took him to a counselor "who said he wasn't a harm to anyone." I had always gotten along well with her, so this whole thing is unfortunate. We are on non-speaking terms although I have offered several times to sit down and discuss this issue. Deep down I feel like I did the right thing. I can't gamble my children's safety and pretend there is nothing wrong. Was I justified in what I did?
     
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  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Yes. The child was adopted at two. As young as that sounds, it is not too young to have suffered so much trauma in his early years that he has reactive attachment disorder as well as other issues. Attachment didordered people NEED to be in control always because they feel so inwardly out of control and they are sneaky and devious about the control and capable of harming others.

    We adopted a kid at 11 with attachment disorder and he eventually killed two dogs, urinated abd pooped everywhere (he was 11 to 13 and we thought it was the dog), and, worse, sexually molested my two young adopted kids, the normal ones that we adopted as babies (the age of adoption matters a lot as does whether or not birthmother took care of herself during pregnancy).

    K 's strange, eerie behavior (15 year olds are not curious about baby parts...*shudder*) makes me wonder if he was abused sexually. His other odd behaviors make me wonder if his birthmother drank or did drugs during pregnancy. All of this can and often does cause a lack of understanding of cause and effect in the child, can cause damaged empathy, and can, and sounds like it did, cause damage to him that causes antisocial personality traits. So does abandonment and neglect in the first three years of life.This situation is not unique to adoption, but very few people who have not adopted know about it, including many mental health professionals. It is hard to diagnose and treat.

    There are three dangerous childish traits of impending sociopaths. These are them.
    1. Pooping and peeing on self or all over in inappropriate places. This boy K isnt sleepwalking. Urinating inappropriately can also mean, although not always, that the child was sexually abused, even if he doesnt remember it.

    2. Cruelty to animals...serial killers are famous for this. This is extremely serious and, hell, no, it is not "being a boy." Its sick.

    3. Fascination with fire/playing with fire/getting close to fire/anything fire related. One family i know had an eight year old foster child eho got angry and burned down their house. While the family was hysterical as they watched their house burn from afar, the boy smiled and asked casually if they could get McDonalds. My friend had to be held back from lunging at him. They spent two months in a hotel while house was rebuilt. This boy, of course, left. Later they were told he was still very sick at 16.

    I was told by an adoption worker from our boy's state that almost all kids in our foster care system have experienced sexual abuse, even if it traumatized them so much that they do not remember. Our boy did not remember, but obviously he was...that is the #1 reason children sexually abuse younger or vulnerable kids. You dont know if K is capable of this, but he is showing a strange interest in seeing them naked. And he is cruel to animals. Those are is l bad signs for his development and character. I wouldnt trust him near my kids. I am sorry every day that my husband and I felt we could love an 11 year old foster kid so much that our love would heal his past, although we didnt really know about his past and he always acted like a nice but quiet kid around adults. We had lived him. It didnt help him, I guess. We are sorry we adopted an older child. We realize now that he was too damaged to live normally in a family. But we did not know at the time. We never would have subjected our littles to that. We were told a psychiatrist aid he was normal but a bit slow. We talked to his foster family before us. They had loved him. Later he admitted he had abused babies that the foster parents babysat for in their home. They had not known either.

    Your husband's parents are in serious denial about K. This child is a train wreck. He was one before your in laws met him. by the way kids from orphanages or the streets of other countries also develop attachment disorders and drug affects...so no matter where K came from, his behavior indicates serious problems that you are smart to not bring into your house.

    If you are disinherited, so be it. That beats possible damage to you, your kids,your pets by K. You cant know what he is capable of doing. Like we didnt know. That boy I spoke of is long gone. He could not stay. Because of FB i know he is married with FOUR young kids. Lord watch over them. This boy is now 27 and at 13 he was seriously abusing a tiny boy and girl. I hope he stopped. I pray he stopped. I cant bear to think if he hasnt stopped...he was forced to sign up as a sexual predator for a long time, but is no longer signed up...who knows? We are afraid of him and will not get involved.

    I am thankful my two he abused got enough therapy to be doing well as adults. God is good.

    Do not be us. Our strong marriage pulled us together and kept us going for the kids, but that was the end of our trying to help kids who were abandoned. I know that sounds mean. But we never adopted or fostered again. And we learned unfortunately about the horrible things early neglect can do to young children. And mothers who drink or do drugs during pregnancy.

    This is child abuse in utero.

    Your mom gut is telling you that K is not okay. Trust your gut. Always.

    I hope your in laws have a plan for K when they are gone that does not include you. I would be afraid to care for him. He will probably always need more than you or anyone else can give him and it doesnt help that it seems he is getting worse and has never been in treatment.

    Regardless, stay away. I am sorry for all of you.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  3. Cutting her grandchildren out of her will because she is mad at you seems very unbalanced and hateful. Screaming at you because you established a boundary in your home is abusive. *A 15 year old boy trying to get a look at the privates of a 3 year old sounds like a sex offender to me.
    *Twisting a dogs skin or throwing a dog is not 'boys will be boys', It indicates significant emotional problems at the least.
    You did the right thing. If you wanted, you could allow him over, but make sure your children and animals were in your presence 100 percent of the time. BUT why bother. The woman sounds unbalanced and abusive. Your children don't need that, and neither do you.
     
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  4. Asdf

    Asdf New Member

     
  5. Asdf

    Asdf New Member

    Thank you for your reply. Thank you for sharing your story as well and I'm glad the children who were victims are doing well. I have heard stories like this in the past and the caution of adopting older children. On the flipside, her reaction (more like wrath) caught me off guard. I understand that people do not like to hear criticism about their children, but her level of denial is severe. She initially had him as a foster child (he arrived when he was 2), then adopted him a year later. I have never been involved in this system, but I remember her saying she had to take classes and I'm surprised they would not have warned that sometimes these children have issues. It's unfortunate that people can adopt, especially those who have the potential for future problems, and do not get them help.
    I'm not an overzealous, helicopter parent who puts my kids in a bubble. I feel like there are enough red flags that warranted my decision, but I'm not going to lie - dealing with the aftermath has been anxiety provoking and horrible. It has caused a rift in the family, as well as arguments with my husband (although he is completely on board now) . Like you mentioned about the Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) child, he can appear so nice and quiet. I think her version of what happened has been hugely minimized as well when she tells other family about it. There is one relative in particular who feels all of these behaviors were just normal and innocent. However, he doesn't have children. As a parent, I have no choice but to protect my children who are so young, voiceless and at the mercy of my choices. What also boggles my mind is that these are her grandchildren as well and she obviously sees no issue in what "k" is doing (and like I said she's very secretive, so there must be much more) or is concerned about their safety. I mentioned he has eating issues and will only eat a few things. Instead of keeping him in food therapy, she has just catered it. We couldn't go to a restaurant unless she looked up the menu first to ensure there would be things he would eat. At gatherings, she packs his special foods and packs his school lunch every day and he is now 15. At what point do you say, this is what we are having, eat it? I would think this sort of enabling would be detrimental to him as an adult. He has had issues in school - never once has she held him responsible. It is always the teacher, the school, the other kids. As puberty kicks in, I can only imagine these behaviors will escalate and I really pray there are not a slew of animal or child victims. It's really scary.
     
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  6. Asdf

    Asdf New Member

    Thank you for your response! I like how you put it bluntly and it is so true! I think I will read your post daily to help me stop ruminating on this! hehe. I am not going to ever change my mind and allow him around my kids, but dealing with all the backlash and judgement has been hard. She got her entire side of the family involved in this (and I'm sure told them a story that wasn't true or minimized). I did not want to involve other people, so have not gone out of my way to share my side. She has continued to play games and be manipulative ever since this happened. I had no idea voicing my concern would turn into such a whirlwind.
     
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  7. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I would agree with Burch responses Above. Boarder line and antisocial personality disorders tend to display the characteristic of K.
    I would far rather be disinherited than have his child anywhere near my young children.

    My girlfriend adopted a boy at 6 and then two young ones a year old and 2 years old. They all have tremendous problems. The older boy they have turned back to the state. He was dangerous to have around the two younger children. The youngest although she seemed sweet and adorable Ian in verbal and both have been diagnosed as feet alcohol and severe delayed development. The older boy was doing all of the things you mention k doing, and may other bizarre behaviours.

    You did the right thing.
     
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  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    If you can, try to remember this is right for your kids and to take husbands family with a grain of salt. They are hiding the worst from you. It is sick for a 15 year old boy to want to see a baby's privates. It is not normal child curiousity due to the tremendous age difference. It is pedophelia. At 15, if boys are interested in girls, and most are, they look at naked pictures of women, say, in Playboy or online or try to have a relationship with a same age peer. I remember fighting off curious boys at 15!! They wanted to see same age girls, not babies!

    You may have to detach from your relationship with husband's family. It is okay if you do, even if husband is upset at first. But you should not be punished or abused for protecting your kids.

    One has to wonder why somebody in her mid 50s would want to adopt a two year old. Did she feel a need to be adored again? That is grandma age, not little toddler's mother's age. Dad seems more with it...more aware.

    One thing I can tell you for a fact. i took six weeks of classes too before being able to adopt and the classes were a joke. None of these problems were addressed in a serious way. It was more like "a child may be angry and act out, but with therapy, boundaries and love it can all work out " Fast. Not detailed. Videos of smiling families. God knows if these were real or actors.

    These damaged kids do not respond to consequences or boundaries. They often go dangerously ballistic if told what to do. They do not accept control over themselves. They do not listen to or, if they pretend to, learn from normal discipline. How can you discipline a child who wont listen or may hurt you if you try to take control? How do you give consequences to somebody who doesnt care? This is a child with damaged attachment plus possible additional brain damage from drugs snd alcohol maybe taken by the birthmother while she was pregnant.

    Do what is best for your kids and yourself and allow husband to deal with his family in his way. He has a very odd mother and Dad seems to just go along with it. Bet the adoption in her 50s was her idea and he just did it to pacify her. I am surprised they allowed such older adults to adopt a toddler.

    Anyway, in my opinion you deserve big kudos. Your own family must come first, even if hub feels he must deal with mom's drama. You do not have to. You can back off and let them bask in their drama without you. Husband may join you one day. My guess is, he will.

    Big hugs and keep posting. We care.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  9. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    I just want to add that while I am in general very leery of the adoption of older children, at least older than infants, infant adoptions often work out very well.

    I have 2 cousins who were adopted as infants by an aunt. They are now well adjusted adults in productive jobs and good relationships.

    HOWEVER, these were privately arranged adoptions, and the children were carefully selected in terms of family history, etc.
     
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My infant adoptions went extremely well and were not carefully arranged.
    Adopting an ifant, who is loved from the start, is way different than adopting children who have suffered, been neglected, and did not know love from their earliest days. The lives of most foster care kids from all countries is inadequate and traumatic. I tell anyone who asks my opinion, and many have, to adopt infants if they want normal kids and a close bonding. I adopted two older kids. Neither bonded and the one I described here was danger plus.
     
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  11. Asdf

    Asdf New Member


    I am not sure why she opted to adopt in her 50s. My husband (her only other child) was in his 30's when she elected to do this. Midlife crisis? Wanting to be loved? On top of her age, she has an extensive mental health history and she adopted this child with her 4th husband. He has never had children and wanted nothing to do with them. So, you are exactly correct, he finally gave in after nagging. And, he wanted to move, so he gave her an ultimatum that if she agreed to move, he would sign the papers to adopt (So, they bartered with a CHILD - although she denies this now, but multiple people recall her saying it). He is an odd person himself and told her it was basically her deal if they adopted - he wouldn't do anything for the child and she mentioned before he won't even tell him he loves him, "because he only loves her." She had to find babysitters while he was in the house with the child if she wanted to go somewhere, because he refused to watch him whatsoever. He has shown a little more interest as he's gotten older, but is essentially the "present, absent dad" if there is such a thing. The more I type this story ... the more it hits home just how sick these people are. He was always secretive, but the last time I saw him, you could tell he was frustrated and that's when he said he was a pathological liar and no consequences bothered him. The moved again a few years ago, and at the last minute he stayed behind and said he had to get a certification on the internet to find a better job - he was gone for an entire year and everyone was wondering if he was going to come back. Clearly, there must be things going on in that home. She's clearly unbalanced as someone said earlier, but I still don't get her rage. Does she regret this decision now? Is she embarrassed? I think a "normal" kid would have a heard time escaping this situation unscathed - let alone a child with issues. They are creating a monster. Thanks for responding to my posts, you have great insights.
     
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  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I am beyond shocked that social services allowed a women in her mid 50s, on her fourth husband (who needed to pretend at least that he WANTED this adoption) and with mental health issues to be a foster parent, let alone adopt an extremely troubled toddler. But...I shouldnt be surprised. It goes along with our child protective (cough) system not giving good info to foster/adoptive parents and having no accountability because they are the State. This is a part of what is wrong with our attitude toward desperate children in the U.S. It is no better than our attitude toward the mentally ill homeless and other important social issues regarding vulnerable people. Shame on us!
    I knew much was bad, but I never thought about how Social Services would choose who would be good parents for orphaned children...and who is allowed to foster/adopt. I thought there was at least an age limit. Is this woman 70 now? How long can she care for this kid?
    Sad situation.
    Opt out of this.
    Not your monkey, not your circus. Let your husband deal with them alone, if need be.. if he wants. This is crazy and toxic and you can cut to minimal contact. My unwanted advice is to do just that. Even if husband doesnt like it. Maybe couples counseling would help. He needs to understand your choices or else life at home can get rough. You dont deserve that nor to be harassed by unbalanced people...I hope husbands whole family is not this way. Hugs!
     
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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017 at 7:02 AM
  13. The 4th husband sounds really creepy. Are you sure he isn't a child molester? Maybe he has been molesting this kid all along and that is what has caused the boy to be disturbed. As far as the mother's rage goes. She is using that to control you. She's abusive and one of the tools she uses is anger. It is unfair that she has manipulated others into believing her. However, if they are sick enough to be manipulated by her, then you are way better without them. I don't know how your husband escaped that situation intact. Have you considered getting some information on Codependency?
     
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  14. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    Sounds like your mother in law has borderline personality disorder, and I agree with all the others who support your decision to keep this disturbed child away from your home and your kids. You have already done the right thing, and I hope your husband will continue supporting you.
     
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  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Gee, accept this woman's money on the condition that I allow her adopted son to abuse my children or turn her money down and keep my children from being scarred for life by abuse? The woman can take her money and stuff it up herself!

    She clearly has controlled people with money and nasty talk all her life. She is allowing this son of hers to behave inappropriately rather than admit he has problems and get help for him. Heaven forbid someone set a limit for him!!!! What craziness is that!!!!

    Sounds like your mother in law needs to be out of your life. I would tell the family the truth if they ask, and otherwise stick with people who you know are your true friends. Ignore the rest of them. Many of them know the truth and are just too afraid of her or too greedy for money to speak the truth. They just wish they could speak the truth the way you do. Their children wish they could be protected from this predator the way your children are being protected from him.
     
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  16. Asdf

    Asdf New Member

    Thank you for your reply! It's so true. My husband and I aren't materialistic people and worked hard to have good careers of our own, so disinheriting us does not phase is at all. I actually got a good laugh out of it because I don't think you can come any closer to the equivalent of a child's temper tantrum and this is a grown woman. I just try not to react at all.. I think a reaction would be satisfying to her. And, you are correct, the one who defends her the most is now the new executor of her will!
     
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  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am glad your husband supports your decision. I hope you both stay on the same page. Hopefully your mother in law will stay resolute in her dislike of you and resolve the issue for you. If she truly is borderline, as her behavior seems to indicate, she may hold on to the grudge for the rest of her life. That would probably be good for your children's safety.
     
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