Back again.

Acacia

Well-Known Member
I posted somewhat regularly a few years ago. I don't see as much activity here, but I remember how wise and non-judgmental people on this site are. My difficult adult daughter (borderline/substance abuse) stopped contact with me four years ago. I'm heartbroken over not seeing my grandchildren, but I have detached because at 68, I don't want the awful drama and abuse in my life. I know she's not doing well, but I have accepted the situation.

Today, I'm back because of my 36 year old son. I have limited contact with him. He is on suboxone, has been in and out of jail for drug offenses, but has not been in trouble with the law for about 4 years. I see him about once every 6 weeks to get a meal together. Because he has a felony for dealing drugs, it has been difficult for him with employment, credit, etc. Because he has been respectful for the past year, I co-signed a 9 month lease for him (he is the renter, I am just cosigner - not resident), of which 4 1/2 months is up, so my name will be off the lease in 5 months.

Here's the problem and the reason I'm up at 4 in the morning writing. I am concerned that he is dealing again. He said he saved $7,000, but he was sick and didn't work for 2 months. He just bought a used motorcycle and truck, and has two used cars. Something doesn't add up with what he says he earns and what he spends. He still uses my home address even though he lives 2 hours away. I have asked him to use his own address, but he says there's a lot of theft where he lives. He's also starting to talk about how tough he is, so no one messes with him.

I feel like I'm being duped, but maybe I am just being paranoid. I feel weak. I communicate by text because it's less stressful, but If I question him, he's likely to either ignore me or to shut me down. I am ashamed at still letting him use my address, and I don't want to be connected to anything illegal- but am afraid of his anger, guilting, and manipulation that I'm not a loving mother.

I plan to text him tomorrow, but don't want to accuse him. I will be relieved when I'm off the lease. I also want to set a boundary about the mail, but I'm shaking in my boots. Why is this so hard for me? Should I give him the chance to defend himself, or should I go with my instincts. I am a fearful person, so I can get ahead of myself. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Hi there and welcome back, although I am so sorry you had to come back. I am also 68 and am done worrying about those who don't treat me well, even my own daughter. And I am much happier now.

Your son may or may not be selling drugs. Selling and using go together. Try not to worry.

AmI am heavily influenced by my now long association with Nar Anon, which resonates big time with me, and I have become VERY good at letting go and letting God. If you have a higher power to me letting go to God's care is brilliant. Why? We don't know what our addicts are doing. We never will know. So I pray for Kay that no matter what she is doing, God please watch over her. I have no control over her. God loves everyone and can look after her. This gives me great peace. I no longer try to figure out why, what, how....etc. I just give her to God and love her from a distance as she took herself out of our lives.

Another gem that helps me from Nar Anon are the three C's. We learn that we DID NOT Cause our child's addiction, we can NOT Control the addiction or anything else our child (or anybody but us do) and we have no way to Cure our child. Cause, Control, Cure. We are not guilty of the disease and we are powerless to fix it. Worrying does not make our kids do better. Learning all that they do is not very likely and doesn't help us or them. Only they can take action to get sober. Only they can turn it around.

Although each of us decides on our level of helping, or if we do help at all, our help often does the opposite and makes us abuse victims to our addict. They manipulate us with blame and anger, almost always unfair. We are not obligated to give them any money to support their lifestyle. When we finally stopped the Bank of Dad and Mom, Kay finally applied for and received SSDI, Food share and Medicare/Medicaid. She lives in a motorhome with her husband...they probably can qualify for Low Income Housing but I don't know if they have. But there is help out there beyond us. We can not live and support them forever. in my opinion if they are not doing well or trying to conform to society, it is best they learn how to live utilizing the system. The system will remain once we are gone

I am very sad that this forum has become very slow. I imagine there are now other social media groups. I do read here every few days. I try to answer. Seems only a few still do. Please take care if YOU. Maybe look into a Zoom online Nar Anon meeting. They are listed online. You don't even need to leave your house, and our group (Thursday night) includes people from across the country although it is supposedly based in one state. We welcome all. I feel Nar Anon changed my life. Look up Online Nar Anon Support Groups if interested.

Sending prayers and love.
 
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Acacia

Well-Known Member
Busy, thanks for your reply. Lots of wisdom. I do Coda 12 step. I think it has literally saved my life. I love the slogans. Our one naranon meeting in town unfortunately doesn't follow the guidelines well, so that there's a lot of cross talk. Maybe I'll try an online one.

You're right that maybe this site isn't used as much because there's a lot on social media now to access, but I found the regular contributors here to really know what it's like in the trenches, and they were generous in their support.

My main concern about my address is that if my son is doing illegal things, I don't want my home to be tied to what he does. My state has forfeiture laws and also, being in a small town, everything hits the local paper. He lives in a city 5 times the size of this.
I plan to address the issue, but I'm getting support to make sure I don't jump to conclusions or stay in denial.

Thanks again for your helpful words.
 

newstart

Well-Known Member
I posted somewhat regularly a few years ago. I don't see as much activity here, but I remember how wise and non-judgmental people on this site are. My difficult adult daughter (borderline/substance abuse) stopped contact with me four years ago. I'm heartbroken over not seeing my grandchildren, but I have detached because at 68, I don't want the awful drama and abuse in my life. I know she's not doing well, but I have accepted the situation.

Today, I'm back because of my 36 year old son. I have limited contact with him. He is on suboxone, has been in and out of jail for drug offenses, but has not been in trouble with the law for about 4 years. I see him about once every 6 weeks to get a meal together. Because he has a felony for dealing drugs, it has been difficult for him with employment, credit, etc. Because he has been respectful for the past year, I co-signed a 9 month lease for him (he is the renter, I am just cosigner - not resident), of which 4 1/2 months is up, so my name will be off the lease in 5 months.

Here's the problem and the reason I'm up at 4 in the morning writing. I am concerned that he is dealing again. He said he saved $7,000, but he was sick and didn't work for 2 months. He just bought a used motorcycle and truck, and has two used cars. Something doesn't add up with what he says he earns and what he spends. He still uses my home address even though he lives 2 hours away. I have asked him to use his own address, but he says there's a lot of theft where he lives. He's also starting to talk about how tough he is, so no one messes with him.

I feel like I'm being duped, but maybe I am just being paranoid. I feel weak. I communicate by text because it's less stressful, but If I question him, he's likely to either ignore me or to shut me down. I am ashamed at still letting him use my address, and I don't want to be connected to anything illegal- but am afraid of his anger, guilting, and manipulation that I'm not a loving mother.

I plan to text him tomorrow, but don't want to accuse him. I will be relieved when I'm off the lease. I also want to set a boundary about the mail, but I'm shaking in my boots. Why is this so hard for me? Should I give him the chance to defend himself, or should I go with my instincts. I am a fearful person, so I can get ahead of myself. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi Acacia,
I am sorry that you feel duped again and stressed out. Your intuition is talking to you and trying to tell you something is not right.
My 39 year old daughter still gets mail at my house. I have talked to her about this until I am blue in the face yet she still uses my address. My daughter has lived in her own home since 2008 so you would think she would not have any mail come to my house.
One of the reasons I think she gets mail sent here is to have an excuse to come over or stay tied to us. I think she realizes with her personality it is hard to be around her and the possibility of us not having anything to do with her is very high.

I think your son my think the same thing?
Welcome back Acacia and I hope things work out for the better and I know you will feel relief when your name is no longer on the lease.
 

Deni D

Well-Known Member
Acacia, I get your concern. Our homes should be our own well earned places of peace, and not be touched by any outside influences, not even our offspring. He's got his own place, soon to be no concern of yours, as it should be. I don't go for being deceptive, but when you have a feeling, as someone who lives aboveboard, that you might just be being deceived I think it's time to protect yourself. I won't let my son use my address but when he had I told him to change it, due do insurance reasons, or I would have changed it for him. I would not take him on as a liability, even with the very large umbrella policy I have. If you think you might be liable and your assists might be at risk, then they are. You can't love your son enough for him to care about you loosing what you have worked hard for, it just doesn't connect for him right now. But you can save him from the guilt he will have if something really bad like that happens to you if he comes to his senses in the future.

Right now I would tell your son your car insurance is giving you a hard time so you need to put a change of address in with the post office for him so that they don't charge you extra for him having his official address at your home. I would simply just tell him, to keep the heat off of you, they said to do it, period. And then put a change of address for him in at the post office. Take a breath and do what you need to do to protect yourself, and do it the easiest way for you.

I don't want to say much about the situation with my son these days because I don't want to jinx things but I will say there is a distinct difference in my son's behavior that shows a conscience these days that was very lacking for many years. In the past, as he was so wrapped up in his issues, he could not see how anything affected even his most important family members. And today he is coming out of it and carries so much guilt it's such a heavy burden to him I pray he works his way to move on from it.

So maybe see your actions to protect yourself as removing a potential burden your son will have to carry in the future when/if he ever pulls his head out of his :censored2:.
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
Thank you, thank you, thank you Busy, Deni, and newstart and your familiar and encouraging voices.

Yes, I have thought that my son uses my address to keep a connection, but I also know that I could be putting my assets in danger, which is why I felt the need to try to set this boundary again.

I sent a text to saying that I have concerns about the discrepancy between his income and spending, and that I don't judge him, but for my own well-being, now that he has his own place he needs to do a change of address in the next month. He also needs to set up a payment plan and put the electricity in his name within a month. I said I love him and want a healthy relationship with him.

He called an hour ago. I shouldn't have answered. What he said: He's not dealing, he buys and trades cars is how he makes money. He is stressed and on the verge of relapse. He's the best friend in my life and has always treated me well (so far from the truth as to be ludicrous). I and my husband are scumbags. He can't change his address. A veiled threat: he's not coming after me, but he's a mean, psychotic guy who beats up people, but he doesn't like to show me that side. He said people are afraid of him. He said he may decide to go back to dealing and make tens of thousands of dollars.

I told him I'm afraid of him and I don't want anything to do with someone who hurts other people. Over the years he has threatened, especially when he gets angry because the manipulation and intimidation works to get me to cave.

I am pretty shaken up. I am going to try to calm down and figure out a plan tomorrow.
Again thank for the support.
 

Deni D

Well-Known Member
He's not dealing, he buys and trades cars is how he makes money.
Could be he's doing that but...

He is stressed and on the verge of relapse.
he's putting his "relapse" in your lap which pretty much seems it's not something that might happen but has happened

He's the best friend in my life and has always treated me well (so far from the truth as to be ludicrous). I and my husband are scumbags. He can't change his address.
Very upside down words from him. When it's inside out and upside down it's drugs and or mental illness. There is not one reason someone can't change their address unless they are hiding and if he is hiding from people who may do him harm then he's okay with them showing up at your house and doing you harm.

He could get a po box at the very least, contrary to what most people believe even a drivers license legally can be addressed to a po box.

he's not coming after me, but he's a mean, psychotic guy who beats up people, but he doesn't like to show me that side. He said people are afraid of him.
This is very serious, he wants you to be afraid that he may show up and physically harm you. I don't know, maybe he's just full of crap, or maybe he is not. If my son had ever said anything like this to me, he's never been physical with anyone, but has actually been psychotic, I'd be contacting the police for a restraining order, getting out of dodge and finding somewhere else to live until things were under control. Only you know if your son is prone to getting physical or may just do it for the first time. At the very least, your son is begging for a reality check.

told him I'm afraid of him and I don't want anything to do with someone who hurts other people. Over the years he has threatened, especially when he gets angry because the manipulation and intimidation works to get me to cave.
Are you hoping this is true, that he's only trying to intimidate you with words to get you in line or are sure he's full of it? He's a grown middle aged man, so not knowing him at all, from out here on the internet it seems like he's dangerous.

I know it's hard hearing from someone else that things might be more serious than what we think. We get used to dealing with the unacceptable, little by little, so we might not judge a situation as well as we should.

Seems to me he's raised the bar with that threat to you. And yeah, I know if you respond like someone would with intervention against his threat his resulting likely "relapse" will be blamed on you but at 36 years old, oye! I think you need some professional help with this situation.

I hope you can work though this safely and get some peace.
 

tishthedish

Well-Known Member
Hi Acacia,
I am so sorry about your situation with your son. The back and forth and the questioning we do of every word we say and move we make is torture (while they abuse us in about every way possible). I am now 64, have been dealing with these issues since at least 2000 and have endeavored to turn everything over to God. For me to be dispassionate and detached about these issues is very hard for me. But there is nothing I ever said, bought, took away, threatened, promised or gifted that made one whit of difference in my sons' behavior towards me. At some point for the mail issue, you may just want to have it returned to sender or put a forwarding address on it and return it to the post office. Be careful once the lease and the utilities off that you are free and clear of his name being on anything of yours.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Welcome back and sorry that you felt the need to find us again.

I do believe you can change his address yourself. I remember we did that for our son because he had forgotten to do it and I was shocked that you could do that. I think you can just stop by the post office and get a change of address card, fill it out and mail it. It's worth a try.

I would cut him off entirely if I were you until he is ready to treat you like his mother and with the respect you deserve. You have done everything for him and more. It's beyond time for him to grow up. If he wants to do drugs, that is on him. It has nothing at all to do with you and it never will.

Praying for your peace. Please stay strong and do not let him do this to you.

:grouphugg:
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
Oh, boy, everyone one who responded gave it to me straight with some truth in all of it. Thank you.

Right now I feel traumatized, so it's hard to function. I go to therapy today. I am as sick as he is in my own way- at least in relationship to my two difficult adult children. I taught high school for 30 years and had no issues setting boundaries, nor do I have problems with friends and other family. Despite years of therapy and 12 step, I still struggle to set boundaries, and I try to defend myself against the gaslighting, which makes part of the problem..

Thank you for being there for me through this time. This morning I thought about offering to help pay for rehab or for his suboxone, but why would I do that when he is so disrespectful of me and my boundaries? I am a fearful person because of all that has happened over the years and every time this happens I do want to get out of Dodge, but my husband works and we still have a life here. I know I have to get the courage and strength to act on my behalf, so that is what I will be working on.

Grateful for this wise group.
 
Dear Acacia, I really understand what it's like to fear our own sons. So far, my son hasn't shown anything like the scary behaviour that yours has, but I do fear his mental state, his anger toward us and his turning up at our house unexpectedly. And recently he has been asking us for money. I also fear that as he is only 25, that he won't grow out of this behaviour and what will he be like when he is your son's age?
I really get it when you said (pre traumatic phone call - I am so sorry) that you feared how he would react if you set a boundary. That's how they operate - intimidation - "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!" So next time he asks me for money I am going to say no - and like you said, 'I will be quaking in my boots' too. I know that everything that happens to him after I refuse to hand over $$, will be according to him, my fault. Losing his girlfriend, his flat, and his life in the city, all my fault. And he will come home, because he's lost it all and has "nowhere else to go". So my anxious and fearful (and sadly, experienced) mind tells it.
Sorry! I'm not offering much help here, just hijacking your thread! The good folks on this forum gave me lots of good advice a few weeks ago, after my son sent me a horrible email - see the thread "Threatening email" .
They advised me to increase the security on my home, report it to the police, not to send him any $$, and block him. But it's not as easy as that is it? Instead I answered him, told him that I had reported his message as intimidating, sent him a month's rent, and told him I hoped he could turn his problems around.
(I will update this story when I get - and refuse - another request for $.)
I do think the security part is something you must take seriously so you feel you have some lines of defence and a sense of security. I don't live in the US so I don't know about the change of address thing. Might be an idea to try to get some legal advice on your possible liabilities or ways to protect yourself from same. I think you need to show him you mean what you say and you won't be treated disrespectfully, but I hate to think of you being in fear of him. Believe me I do get it and wish you could get out of Dodge. Unfortunately for most of us that is not possible. Hugs!
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
Waiting. You're not hijacking my thread. Sadly, there's solace in knowing others have had to deal with situations like this. It's not a club any of us want to belong to, but at least we know that others understand what we're going through.

I pray that your son does find his way, but mine has never been able to face his own behavior, and I think being in jail/prison hardened him to play the tough guy. I will take steps, but for the next day or two I am going to weigh my options and be still. As you said about your son, whatever I do or don't do, I'll still be blamed.

Thanks for the support.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I would get a security system at least. At this point in my fun journey I would also call the cops to keep him away. He is threatening you and in my opinion he uses your address for convenience. I don't believe it's to keep a connection....he can do that easily by just being nice to you...he probably finds it easier to have a legal address. Since he is using it I would call my lawyer to make sure this does NOT make him a legal resident that you can not throw out if he pays you a visit and decides not to leave

I find it almost ridiculous to think he sells cars. He probably sells drugs. He won't tell you the truth. Addicts lie. It is part of the disease. Asking him anything is an invitation to be lied to.

I am not trying to make you sad but I feel he could be dangerous. in my opinion I would make sure he can not be alone with you or in your house. My daughter got unexpectedly violent a few times and we never let her back in our house again. Please remember that you need to watch out for your own safety.

If you ever can do so it really helped when we quit reading Kay's messages and wouldn't answer her phone calls. We consulted our lawyers too. It was a scary time.

Blessings and love.
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
Busy, Thanks for the concrete advice. I will talk to my husband about a security system, and I am also figuring out what steps I want to take. I remember your posts about Kay, and am sorry you have had to deal with these things also.

I think he has or is on the verge of relapse, and I know he lost his medicaid, so I don't know about his suboxone. He isn't allowed at our home, and for a long time I would only meet him in public. If I do need to meet him it will only be in public. I also will not be answering any more calls from him.
 

SeekingStrength

Well-Known Member
Hey there Acacia,

It just never stops, does it?

Like you and several others have mentioned, I miss the olden days when you'd log in with the latest development and all the regulars would pounce right on it to buoy us up. The responses to your post make me feel much better about how slow the traffic has been lately. Wonderful, caring folks.

I don't know anything about any social media sites mentioned and wish I did. There is nothing like the advice and input husband and I read here. What a huge help it was for us!

ANYHOW,
I might even go as far as to let the police know AND let your son know you have done that.

Any mail that arrives at your address for him, cross out the address and mark it "Not at This Address." or "Return to Sender"?

The security system is an excellent move, in my humble opinion. We have added Ring in recent years and a few cameras....just in case. And our 40yo lives about 1500 miles away. He contacts us every few months; we always know that means he is in trouble or about to be in trouble.

Thinking about you this evening,

SS
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Let's not forget that these "guys" can change if they want to.

Many go to prison and it changes their lives forever, for the best.

Don't let the guilt and sadness of them being the way they CHOOSE to be fall on you. We all do the best we can as parents and many of us improve our parenting immensely over the way WE were parented (me, me!). There is no guidebook on how to raise a smart, happy and successful child. Sometimes I feel that the more cushy we make their lives by them not wanting for much, we create monsters.

Hugs and prayers for all of us.
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I feel that the more cushy we make their lives by them not wanting for much, we create monsters.
I forgot how to do this, so I think I hit quote first. How true. I had a pretty stressful childhood, so I thought that by always smoothing the way for my son, he would not have to deal with failure and adversity. Unfortunately it just created someone who can't handle it. My ex-husband was worse. He allowed our son to flout rules and basically grew our son into an entitled narcissist.

Pia Mellody, one of the originators of codependency (me) recovery said there are two kinds of abuse - disempowering and empowering. Disempowering hurts children. Empowering abuse hurts them too by enabling and a failing to set necessary limits necessary to become independent and functional. My ex, who died at 51, did everything to empower my son and to disempower me.

Anyway, what a Godsend all of you are for sharing your wisdom gained from your own pain and experience. Thank you.
I am talking to my therapist, twelve step people, and trying to get the strength to follow through.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
I'm so sorry for all you're going through. I agree with the others on the security system but sometimes for my own piece of mind and when I'm feel fearful of my adult children I "text" something like this...

"You've done nothing wrong but I'm experiencing PTSD and for my own well being I'm going to block you from my phone. I'm sure you'll be fine but I just wanted you to know. When I feel better I'll unblock you."

Also, for the cost of $1.00 with the USPO on your credit card, you can go on line and change his mailing address. Tell him, you don't want him to miss any important mail so you've changed his address.

To me I feel like once I've given them notice, it will hopefully prevent them to not get so angry when they try to call or text and find out I've blocked them.

I hope this helps...thinking of you and praying for a peaceful resolve.
 

Acacia

Well-Known Member
Jaypee, I like your suggestions. I did text my son that I was not judging him, but was setting boundaries for my own feeling of safety. It still set him off. I have essentially cut contact until and if things change. I am not hopeful, but I am open to miracles....

I, too, have PTSD, and I am working hard in therapy to overcome my childhood trauma that is related to my difficulties setting boundaries, rescuing, and fear. I am making progress, but the grief of having two adult children with substance abuse and emotional health issues still takes its toll.

Thanks for the support.
 
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