Interesting debate, but then it always is.
I'm more inclined to believe it's both, and coming from a family with fairly rampant mental illness..........I have quite a bit of experience in judging how "nurture" has affected the genetic component. Oh, I definitely believe in the genetic component, and I believe it's far stronger than docs/researchers ever allowed themselves to believe in the past.
But also, I believe that mental illness is a true illness/disorder........biological/neurobiological.......that also affects the genetic traits we've been given via the generations. If you view it that way.......then add in the nurture aspect........I think it's easier to see why nurture would seem to affect some more strongly than others, while others too are so severe that no amount of treatment or nurturing would make a noticeable difference. Because in a way, you're nurturing around the disorder........not really nurturing it away so to speak, you're strengthening other aspects of their personality/thinking processes that have been untouched by the mental illness itself, sort of training them to cope with their disability so to speak.
I don't believe that the sky rocketing rates of mental illnesses/disorders we've seen in recent decades is due to more awareness or better diagnosis processes. It would increase, but I just find it hard to swallow that it would increase so dramatically. Especially since dxing mental illness is still a very subjective process with no "real" tangible exams/diagnostic tests to give objective data.
I find it interesting that this drastic upward trend coincides with the dramatic social shifts in society, but I don't find it surprising. Even as our genes tell us what color of hair/eyes we'll have yadda yadda.....they're programed for evolutionary survival in behavior over many many thousands of years of trial and error. And we, as a species, have basically chucked that out the window in a span of a couple of generations. We're not really programed genetically to handle such drastic change in behavior well. I'm not saying this is a cause, but it's likely a contributing factor as those without mental illness struggle to adjust to this change and make it work for them, think of how much more difficult it must be for those with mental illnesses. Boundaries that were traditionally steadfast (right or wrong) it seems have been chucked out the window, and continue to be, yet none have taken their place. As we've all discovered as warrior parents, people with mental illness need/crave boundaries.......without them they seem to be totally lost.
Then I too have believed for a long time there are other environmental factors playing into the dramatic upswing in mental illness that we've probably not even considered. The amount of chemical pollution we're surrounded with in the air, the ground, the water. The way our food is now genetically engineered, smothered in pesticides, chemically enhanced. The scary part of that is there is no data on the mental/physical effects of that on human beings, either by making us more susceptible to illness or making us ill directly, or heaven forbid altering our cells to the point where it's affecting reproduction and developing embryos.
Another strong factor that contributes, in my opinion, is the very fact that our society shifted from hard work and mostly manual labor to high technology and instant gratification in a historical blink of an eye. Again, we're not genetically programed to cope with that sort of drastic change over a very short period of time. I strongly believe this factor is mukking up the waters a TON as it's bringing forth unwanted (and probably unbefore seen) traits in those without a true mental illness........example: how many people do you know now that find themselves unable to cope without a cell phone or computer? How many do you know that have symptoms of being "addicted" to video games or junk foods. If those things were removed for some reason from society, those behaviors would disappear in those without true mental illness. Perhaps they'd find a more productive outlet.....or just switch off all together. Sort of like when easy child asks how I avoid temptation for sweets. I just tell her I don't buy them, what I do buy requires me to make it from scratch, I learned years ago that usually by the time I've went through the trouble of making it from scratch.....I just really don't want it that bad anymore and half the time don't even eat it.
My maternal grandfather was from all accounts a mental piece of work you'd never want to meet. Schizophrenic, probably a sociopath to go along with it....maybe even a mood disorder thrown in. My maternal grandmother raise 7 kids by this man, alone, because he was so bad she had to break social norms to escape him, which put her kids in a unique social situation that was frown upon during that era. She worked 2 jobs, often 3, to keep food on the table and a roof over their heads.....and often that wasn't enough. My grandfather showed up often enough for years just to mess with the kids. At one time.......when her kids entered their teens.......she was dealing with multiple difficult children, some more serious than others. My uncles sort of attempted to go off the deep end in their teens, many would say with good reason considering their father and that their mother was usually absent working. They got into some pretty serious trouble stealing, fights, ect and found themselves in Juvie. Grandma was too busy keeping basic needs met to come to their rescue in any shape or form. I know she worried terribly about them, but in her own words, there really wasn't a lot of time for that either. But in that era, and where they lived (small rural towns/cities) society did not tolerate difficult child behavior and didn't downplay it simply because you were under 18. Punishment was hard and swift. By the time the boys reached adulthood they had matured into functioning adults. The eldest child, my aunt, started working at age 12 (all the kids did, and helped with family finanaces keeping only a small portion for themselves) often 2 jobs......she dropped out of school and became pregnant, married a man that made her father look like a saint. My aunt already had the genetic components for schizophrenia, was already dropping minor symptoms here and there as well as those of a mood disorder.......then she married the sadist and was able to hold it together a short few years before going full tilt severe paranoid schizo/ with a bipolar combo. Another aunt built a glass house around herself. She probably was a easy child for the most part, but she has some very difficult child traits. My mom......was showing signs of schizo by her early 20s. The youngest 2 sibs were both pcs.
My aunts mental illness literally drove people away from her. It was truly impossible to deal with untreated by medications to make the symptoms less severe. Yet she was the hardest working, most generous, loving human being I have ever met outside of my own grandmother. Over time and with guidance from my grandma, she learned to cope with her illnesses.....eventually finally sought treatment to improve her quality of life. But I can span her whole lifetime.......and with as severely mentally ill as she was, the woman could hold down a job, sometimes 2, her house was spotless, her bills always paid as long as there was money to pay them. And even as much as she tended to drive people away.......she continued to seek out compainionship That aspect.........I believe came from nurture. Not just my grandmother, who had maternal instince out the wazoo and common sense and was far more intelligent than she ever let on, but by a society that still had it's moral values firmly into place at the time when she was growing /developing.
My mom..........whew. It's a little harder to be objective here, but I do try hard as it gives me another entirely different persepective of her. Her paranoia distroyed her first marriage, not that it was all that wonderful to begin with, in a time when divorce still wasn't the norm and biracial marriages were scorned. Truth be told it distroyed all of her marriages, would have the last one except by that time she was terrified of being alone so refused to leave. The 5 kids she had were physically, mentally, and emotionally abused based on her shcizo concepts. Her intentions were good, but when you're always dealing with an ever changing warped/twisted sense of reality........intentions mean nothing. Yet with all this going on......she worked, she paid her bills, and for all outside appearances, she held it together. That was the nurture aspect.
Her 5 kids? Now we enter into the period where the idea of "family" was taking on radical changes in society, as well as many social changes and envoronmental changes that were drastic. Eldest bro is a drug addict and a pediphile. He can't maintain a relationship with a woman for any length of time. I long ago lost count of how many times he's been married or been living with someone. He just ended his latest. He does have a strong work eithic though, can/does pay his bills, but money is not something he can hold on to and he's addicted to "stuff" as well....pathological liar on top of it. Eldest sis, this one is complicated as I've watch her deteriorate over the years. Strongly suspected bipolar from early teens. Schizo symptoms/behaviors from late 20's that became even more pronounced once she reached her 30's. Now? She's just a mess mentally. A nurse, who once was at the top, who now if she can find work......steals medications from her patients. But I'm pretty sure her license was pulled permanently the last time back in Sept. And she became more severe, her ability to "hold it together" fell apart. In her early 20's she was totally "on it" and doing well. By mid 30's she couldn't keep her rent paid and utilities on. Her parenting, while I firmly believe she loves her kids/grandkids, is NOT fit for a dog.......literally. Middle sis, is doing what one of my aunts did..........the glass house thing........having issues attaching to other people. Younger bro, is also a mess. Did drugs/drinking for years but miraclulously did not become addicted. Is abusive and also can't maintain a viable relationship. The one he managed to have last should've ended before it started as it was an abusive living hell on earth. But he does maintain in the working/bill paying ect aspect.
Then there is me. And I was, I think or it seems, born totally different from all of them......including aunts/uncles. My grandma called me an "old soul". (I've never really been sure of what they meant by that) I avoided the mental drama from as far back as I have memory. Learned to read body language and facial expressions to the point where I knew when someone was "off" and I didn't stick around for the aftermath if I could help it. (as much because I was always the target of the aftermath) I had grandma, and I truly believed she saved me from the utter worst of it. But I also know that even before kindergarden I could recognize unacceptible behavior and not copy it, just as I could recognize acceptible behavior and made it a point to copy it instead. (not sure if I'm wording this part right) I could easily recognize when something was just wrong, from any point of view, as well as when something was right. And I could easily (maybe too much so) see what the consequences would be per right and wrong choices, the ripples on the pond effect, from a very early age. Yup, I was a difficult child myself.......and in my teens I did some rather risky difficult child behavior that had some serious consequences. But all the while I was doing them (somewhat to fit into a very dysfunctional family) I knew what I was doing, why I was doing it, and what the likely consequences would be of my actions. Which is why, just as suddenly as it started, it stopped. I just couldn't settle my behavior with my inherent sense of right and wrong. (which doesn't always jive with society by the way, it's often stricter)
From this generation, it totally went to hades. Eldest bros kids have no official dxes but wow. Eldest sis's kids........(this is definitely nurture AND nature) her eldest will live his life in prision....most likely schizo, bipolar, and sociopath for certain. Her daughter tries hard, and while I don't think she has a mental illness, she's not a easy child either. Her youngest...has stayed out of prison by a miracle.....he can't stop fathering kids, and is functioning so low it's pathetic. Middle sis' kids....eldest suffers severe anxiety (which he seems now to have some control over), middle daughter is a easy child, youngest.......is a disaster area...... Younger bro's kids, eldest is a LOT like me (but she's not his bio child) and does well considering, his son tried to rob a bank with a watergun, among various other things.......says it all. Youngest daughter I've posted about, another mess waiting for a place to happen.
I have easy child. Then I have Travis (who inherited the autism gene) who's issues are biological as well as mental, who can not be "cured" in any sense and who functions so far above and beyond what had ever been predicted that I still shake my head in wonder. And Nichole, who was all over the place for years and who has stabilized as nearly a easy child. Both my difficult children are functioning and doing well, most especially given their dxes. Genetics obviously played a huge role in their lives. But I believe environment AND nurture played a larger role. My goal wasn't necessarily to "cure" them, but to get them as stable as possible and functioning at as high a level as they could manage within that stability.
Katie............. Is her Dad intensified by probably a factor of 100, which I find interesting because if you add up all the time she spend with us as a child, it would actually be very little over the span of a childhood. Hers was influenced by evinvorment and the nurture factor as well. Unfortunately, in the wrong direction, making it more severe, instead of less severe. And there is a high chance she has at least one mental illness diagnosis in the mix that is not being treated on top of it.
This is why I believe what I do, that there are far more factors that play into mental illness than we like (or feel comfortable) to give credit to.
I don't believe I'm the perfect warrior parent by a long shot or that my methods would work with every difficult child out there. By the time my own difficult children came along I had above and beyond experience dealing with mental illness, as many psychiatrists have said, probably more than many of them.......simply because my life was surrounded by it, nearly smothered in it. I knew going in what usually worked and what didn't. I knew creative thinking outside the box was necessary, and due to past experience.....I was good at it. I new that routine, consistency, and boundaries were necessary for all children, but an absolute must for those with mental illness (adult or child).......because I had first hand experience in what happens to thinking/behavior when that is absent.
But even with all that experience/knowledge (because I'd been educating myself on mental illness since the early days of high school), I could've just as easily wound up with a mentally ill difficult child who is unable to adapt or maintain stability, simply because their mental illness is that severe.
And that to me is the key. That's why I don't think it fair for docs or society to look at the parents and blame them. Because they could've done all the right things, gone above and beyond (look at Timerlady and the Tweedles as a prime example) and the end result still be a child who is so mentally ill that it doesn't make a visible difference.
You notice with my aunt and my mom I never once said they were cured or even stable. Nurture/environment I believed taught and helped them to maintain on a certain level despite that, that they would not have been able to do without it. Although the next generation became more severe in behavior........you still see where the nurture part played a role. By the 3 rd generation that nurture/environment aspect was gone (environment=modern society), my sibs didn't make much effort in structure, boundaries, consequences......or even attempting to instill a work ethic...and their parenting was abusive, neglectful in soooooo many areas. I shudder to think what difficult child combos will come out of the 4th generation........and not just from the nurture/environment thing but from choices in genetic partners which also seem to have deteriorated along with the rest of it. (perhaps because "normal" people would not put up with it?)
Of course even what I've pointed out here are probably not all the contributing factors. Science was stunned to discover that the elimination of just one species of plant or animal could shatter an entire ecosystem. Until then, they had no concept of how closely everything related to everything else. I think, no I believe, that mental illness is the same thing...........just as it is with all illness. I believe we've not even scratched the surface with either, but most especially mental illness, because we just can't seem (no matter how hard we try) to drop the stigma attached to it.
