Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by newstart, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    My 37 year old daughter is all about conspiracy stuff. Some of it makes sense, some of it does not. This goes on everytime I talk with her. I would like for her to tell me personal things like what she is doing but I get blasted with conspiracy stuff. OMG.
    My daughter has gone to Church with me twice this month. This is a major big deal.

    A couple of weeks ago my daughter and I went shopping at a health food store and she bought some specialized protein. It was expensive. She later calls to tell me how good it tastes and how she loves it. Everyday when she calls, she tells me what she mixed it with and how it is helping her body and mind. I went over to her house, saw the protein, I went to smell it, it had never been opened. She gets nervous and makes up some BS about how it just looks like it never was opened but she had been using it. I asked her to open it and I could tell it was the first time it was opened. WHY? all the lies...My guess is that she had been eating junk food and trying to make me think she had been making healthy food..I raised my kids organic, healthy foods, clean water, vitamins, exercise. I wonder if it is rebellion. I told her she is free to choose her lifestyle but not free from the result of her choices..IF she wants to continue to feel awful then keep doing what she is doing. She does have ODD and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).
    I noticed with my bipolar brother in law, if he knew I disliked something he would do it in front of me, it did not matter if it hurt him, as long as he was irritating me it gave him some sort of pleasure.
    I would watch in amazement as he harmed himself thinking he was irritating me. Such a wonderful disorder to have. So glad he is out of my life. He keeps trying to get back into our lives but we will not take his abuse any longer.
    The love for my daughter is so strong that I work at it and then work at it some more and when I think I cannot take her any longer I find a molecule of strength to keep plugging away. I wonder that when I get much older if I just will not be able to put so much effort into keeping things going. The truth is that it wears me out to the bone, just the nosense, the lies, the weirdness, it wears my soul out to the core of who I am.
  2. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Well-Known Member

    This all rings true with me as well Newstart. We are both getting older and i find i don't have the stamina to handle this anymore. All we can do is pray for them and just as important pray for ourselves.
  3. louise2350

    louise2350 Active Member

    I am turning 70 next month and although I haven't seen or heard from my estranged daughter in 5 years I've realized that I can't keep worrying, calling and emailing her with no response. So, I've handed it over to God. Hopefully, she will come to a major healing in her life, get the psychological support and a good healthy group of friends and peace for this to happen.
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  4. Across The Pond

    Across The Pond New Member

    This intrigued me. I wonder if this is a factor in my own story with my son. Thanks for sharing.
  5. Acacia

    Acacia Active Member

    It sounds as though you've worked very hard to keep a connection with your daughter. It also sounds as though she is struggling with some mental health issues or at least some delusional thinking. You're right to question what the cost to you is to maintain a relationship with her.

    The older I got, the more I realized I had to set firm boundaries with my DS to maintain my own physical and emotional health. She chose, at least for now, to end her relationship with me. That doesn't mean I don't love her very much; it means I choose to love myself just as much.
  6. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

    MUCH of this reminds me of our situation as well. Our adult daughter has the bipolar diagnosis. It can be weird and complicated. I am concerned about life as hubby and I age. It’s exhausting and soul sucking.
  7. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I think you have a choice about how you want to hold this, understand her behavior, and respond to it.

    I think your daughter wants to be connected with you and wants your approval. On the other hand I could see that you could respond to her lies, as a manipulation of your good will.

    If I saw it this way I would feel anger, frustration and distress. If I acknowledged that at the bottom of things my daughter wanted me to love her, and approve of her, and she loved me, I would feel greater love and acceptance for her, and for myself.
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  8. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Hi Copa, I guess I can look at it both ways but what gets me deep down is the wasted time on the lies. The babble noise that is nothing but lies and made up fantasy. Nobody wants to be lied to, and most people know when they are being lied to. I think it is terribly distrespectful to feed another person a bunch of BS thinking they are so ignorant to fall for it. I would rather someone say they don't feel like talking than to give me a line of BS.
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I am in the same spot you're in. My son lies constantly. I am constantly angry, frustrated and destabilized.

    While I think lying is horrible, I do not lie, and don't remember ever having lied as a practice, I think it's possible to love somebody who lies. I think it's possible to get in touch with my own heart, even about a lying person. I think it's possible to insulate myself from the effects of my son's lies, to some extent, by either moderating my own expectations, limiting contact with him, or changing my expectations about myself.

    I have read a lot recently that the millennial generation has a different attitude about lying and truth, than do baby boomers. Even in the current political situation there is a shift in attitudes about truth. I am not taking a position one way or another on this this cultural shift. But I wish I didn't bang my head against realities over which I have not one iota of control.

    This is the only son I have. My only child. My only life.

    To me, the choice seems simple, at least when I see it in your life, not my own.
    I can rail and rail and rail at the fact my son lies. Or I can dig in and find my heart. It's just that simple. When I won't accept reality, who do I hurt, really? I hurt myself. The reality is that my son lies. The question is, is there another reality that's important too. The love I have for him. The love he has for me. The commitment I feel to him. I can make the choice to have these things carry the day. Or not.​
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  10. ChickPea

    ChickPea Active Member

    Interesting topic, lies. It's one of the things I struggle with immensely with my child and allow myself to get too wrapped up in. I don't know how to respond to them. I can't have a relationship built on lies and delusion. I have a hard time functioning in that realm. I, too, am very weary. Hugs to you. I'm not the poster child for having achieved any great coping method for the lies. They kill me.
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  11. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    My daughter lies if she is speaking. it tois hard to be close to somebody who does not tell the truth. in my opinion since truth is a big part of a loving relationship. I love my daughter, even though she lies and abuses but we are not close as I am with my husband and other children.

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  12. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Copa, I have looked at my daughter's lies from all angles. I have been to therapy several time over what to do about it. Is it helping her if I just ignore the lies or do I call her out on them each time and chance a full blow out? I have done both. I have used every and any method to help her stop lying. I believe it is part of her bipolar. I do have a clue when it is non stop lying, the is manic and rambling. I have seen her mindfully try to stop. She once told me a huge lie about where she got her hair cut and then stopped herself and told me the truth. She back tracked in another voice. I see that she was trying to work on it and it is very hard for her to do. My husband says she has a lapse in her brain or she gets short curcuit. Even though the lies or horrible, the belligerence is much better. NO way do I tolerate the belligerence, I have ignored her for 3 months over the belligerence and can do it again. If I did not see her trying to help herself I would not see her as often.
    With me just letting the lies fly by, is that really helping her? Does it help me? For now I am choosing to just let it fly, tomorrow I may call her on the carpet and watch her squirm and get nervous. I believe it is another disorder all to itself, probably connected to bipolar or borderline but it own illness. I have explained in detail to my daughter how lies stress the body, mind and soul out, how it ruins your cells and how awful it is in the spirit world. Yes she continues. How ill is that to continue doing something that is destroying you? And while I am complaining about this, I am saying a prayer of graditude that this is all I am complaining about because years before, the stuff she was doing would cause people reading about it to lose all color in their face.
  13. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    I find letting obvious lies go helped ME when we were in touch. I don't think WE can influence whether or not they lie so Zi rather not fight about something I can't control. Lying for no reason can in my opinion be stopped with therapy. I am not a therapist. Sometimes Zi wish I were lol.

    If I would lie it would totally stress me out but i don't think lying even gives Kay a faster pulse. She doesn't care. She doesn't react like a normal person in most areas of life. I don't know that they react in normal ways.

    I am pretty sure Kay is borderline and they think differently than those who are not Cluster B.
  14. DaisyC1234

    DaisyC1234 Member

    Wow, talk about lies.. I don't know for sure why she lies, but I presume it's to paint a better picture of her life than it actually is. I've always told her the truth isn't pretty sometimes and it's not what we want to hear, but I think we can all appreciate the truth, maybe not at the moment, especially if it's unpleasant, then at least I know I can base my paths on them and I know which direction to go from there. Like @BusynMember I just let them go because it's not helping ME and I won't fight about something that I have no control over, so I just indulge her, which a response of "Oh that's nice", knowing it's either not true or just so far out of touch.

    I think she also lies to get what she wants, she is not verbally abusive but does show great pain and suffering to try and gain the sympathy of others, can't think of the word right now, I know there's a word for that.

    My dad has taken her to a couple of AA meetings, but she said she had one the other day, but who knows if she actually went. Is there some sort of proof they went that they can give at those meetings? I want my dad to require this of her if she's going to live with him.
  15. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    No they won't baby her and sign a form that an adult went. It's all up to the person to get sober or not.
  16. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    When I have gone to AA meetings, the leader has completed verification forms. You can find them online. It is typical in my community that people are court-referred, and their attendance at group is a condition to not be remanded to jail, for instance. I do not know if groups differ with respect to completing verification for non-legal reasons.

    I do see the point that recovery needs to be sought by the addict. And ideally, this is the case. However, I have seen and heard about many people who begin the process to comply with legal requirements, pressure, and then something in them kicks in. This is how "interventions" work. People are pressured to put themselves into recovery and once going through the motions, they come to buy in.

    When you think about it, doesn't this make sense? As addicts the addiction is in charge. The addiction doesn't want to stop. But there is a person inside who is different and distinct from the addiction. At meetings, in treatment, there is the chance for the "person" to emerge from the addiction.
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This is what I mean. Good for you, Newstart!
  18. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    This child is not court ordered. I have serious doubts that an adult would have to answer to an adult parent if a judge didn't order it. I assume those court ordered signatures go to a judge. AA and Al Anon are run by volunteers and do not take attendance. A member doesn't even have to speak or give a real name. I did neither at first and tried both AA and Al Anon. I sat alone and felt ashamed and said not a word.

    I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but the fact is that members come and go as they please if they are adults and not under the order of a court. The idea of the group is going because you WANT to go and not because forced, maybe unless court mandated. I don't know about that. I believe it happens by court order but never saw it, not even in California where we once lived.
  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    The adult who attends the group voluntarily asks for verification of attendance. As I understand it, this can be for work, for instance, as well. It could never be forced. How could it be?

    People all of the time comply with rules in order to receive benefits. For example, in some jobs I used a time clock.

    When I went to AA there were many, many people there who went to meetings because they were compelled. In fact, it seemed as if the majority of the new people were there compulsorily.

    I am not taking a position as to whether any specific action is right or wrong. I am not advocating an action. I am only reporting upon what I saw. Daisy, her father and her daughter will make their own decisions, in light of their options.
  20. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    I'm not advocating either. I just never saw it. I don't know if it can be done unless the kid agrees. I never saw anyone get anything signed and have gone for years. I can see judges mandating it or work. But we work so we always go at night. Most of our members work days, not nights, so work is not a problem.