Down the rabbit hole we go

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by DaisyC1234, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. DaisyC1234

    DaisyC1234 Member

    So now my parents are aware that Dez is pregnant, again. They want us to loan her our car for the next two weeks until they can lend her theirs. I told her no she can't use our car and that we are already letting her stay until the end of September and that this whole situation is causing be so much stress.

    It seems like she's trying but for how long. She had plenty of time to get things together and now here we are. My granddaughter was born 3 years ago, so she's literally done nothing since then. She's worked at strip clubs and that's about it.

    I honestly feel guilty by not loaning her the car, but I feel we've been helping the past 3 years and still nothing plus I'm letting her stay at our house until the end of September. I feel I'm doing something to help by giving her a place to stay and food to eat until then.

    I still feel sad. I feel like if she fails it will be my fault. I don't want to put any more engery into this, but I can't help but feel upset.

    I am sure my mom will be calling me soon.
  2. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    If she fails it will be 100 percent her fault. She is 26. She can do it.

    Didn't she lose her driver's license? Without a license AND insurance why would anyone let her drive? She is an alcoholic?

    The honest truth is you don't know if she is drinking, pregnant or not. You would LIKE to think she is sober, of course, and YOU and I would never drink while pregnant. I know how this goes. All you know is that she isn't drinking around you.

    Kay smoked pot and maybe drank while pregnant, but she was smart enough not to let us see. Somebody eventually told us after Jaden was born. Broke our hearts. My grandson has symptoms of a child who might be affected by alcohol. Thinking about it is making my head hurt.

    I would not believe she was trying unless a year of good stuff went by and she was independent. I made the mistake of seeing one good month when Kay wanted something from us and my heart sang that she was on the right path.

    It is easy to fool ourselves. She hasn't changed. I hope your daughter is different than Kay. I really do. But she sounds a lot like Kay.

    One thing. You have no control over your parents. They enabled your brother. They may do it to your daughter. You can't control what other adults do, not your parents or daughter. Don't get involved. It will only make your path harder if you fight with your parents. They are all over 18.

    I can so relate.

    God bless.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  3. DaisyC1234

    DaisyC1234 Member

    She just got her license back today. Yes, I believe she was/is an alcoholic due to some mental issues she hasn't dealt with. Back in February/March is when she found out she was pregnant and she just conveniently stopped drinking. She has been more responsible since then like actually showing up to see her daughter, but still make little to no effort to seek full-time employment or get a car. She currently has a little part-time job working at a pizza place. Within the past three weeks she's suddenly realized she needs to get a full-time job.

    She could possibly still be drinking or smoking, your right I don't know if she isn't drinking or smoking pot.

    She comes up with these delusional thoughts and ideas and can't plan out more that two days in advance. I ask who will be taking care of this baby, what will you do for six weeks after you have it? She has no real answers.

    She said she told my mom not to bother me about her situation, so now we will just have a big white elephant in the room. Christmas and Thanksgiving will be fun this year. My parents will come to the rescue as always, but like you said that's their business and I'm not getting involved with that.

    I appreciate your words @BusynMember. Thank you!
  4. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Forgive me for posting so much. It helps me.

    I just noticed somebody paid your daughter's fines. Honestly, we paid for Kay's tickets (one was a DUI) too. We bought her three cars. She had three accidents. Bad ones. All her fault. We cleaned up for her. Kay has never paid for a thing in her life. She has never had a job that lasted beyond a week. Her husband delivers pizzas for now. He never had a job outside of at a restaurant. I imagine they grow and sell pot too. Our picking up Kay's messes made her helpless and unwilling to work and angry at us for no longer funding her life.

    Kay once threw a dangerous object at my son when he mumbled at her to tie her tubes when she was screaming at us that we had to buy this and that for the baby. Now its not like my son to get nasty and he spoke very softly and maybe he should not have said that, but she could have killed him if the object had hit him. It missed and shattered loudly against the wall beside him. Police were called. I was crying and I don't cry.

    Kay was never allowed inside of our home again. But we did pay six months of rent on several apartments for her. This was after we had bought her a small but nice little house which did not work out then a cheap mobile home that the whole family fixed up for her, but they got way behind on the lot rent and you can imagine the ending there. They had to sell for a dime.

    Kay never learned to adult nor did Lee. I am heartsick over this and because of her friend calling me last night, the wounds are newly fresh. I feel guilty again. After all she did, I still feel guilty and like a bad mother.

    I don't know why I am telling you this. More for myself than anyone. I sure hope your daughter does not turn out to be helpless. That is the worst consequence when we enable. Watching my adult child falling behind 21 year olds makes me heartsick. Kay could never function on her own. Lee manages to hold her up enough that she hasn't lost it completely, yet he is also a child. One day they will fall apart together. I feel it coming.

    Speaking of child,I have no doubt that one day they will also lose custody of Jaden. And I think Kay should tie her tubes, although I would never say so nor would she ever do it.

    Wishing you the best. Hoping things work out. Sending you prayers.
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Hi and welcome.

    There is a mother who posts here called Elizalibrary. She has an adult daughter who is an alcoholic, who also has a daughter. And I think there is now another child too but I forget. Eliza's daughter has become self-sufficient, and Eliza has over the years put in place very strong, appropriate boundaries, which pulled for her daughter to become responsible as a person and a parent. Hopefully she will see your thread, but you could do a search for her posts which I think you will find helpful.

    It seems like you are undermined by your parents. And that your daughter may triangulate between you and your parents. Personally, I feel offended for you that your mother is directing you what to do, i.e. loan your daughter your car. Where does she get a vote?

    First, that's your decision to do or not, and two, are there not risk factors for you? Even with her license back, has she established herself as trustworthy? What does her situation have to do with you making this kind of sacrifice?

    I will just comment on what I feel. I want to support you and there's no way to do that without telling you what I think. I hope I don't overstep.

    There are so many issues here. One. You have no reason for guilt. Two, there is your welfare too. Your privacy in your own house. Your stress levels. Your comfort and serenity. Three. You are an adult woman, a grandmother. Why is your mother directing you to do this or that?

    Finally, where will the learning come for your daughter, if things are solved for her? There have been other parents here whose parents (now elderly) have stepped in to assume parental roles of adult or teenage grandchildren, enabling them and disempowering their parents (who are their children). In only one instance can I recall that this actually helped. In every other situation the grandparents ended up abused in one way or another, and the situations exploded. But mainly the parents (like you) are infantilized, undermined by their parents who think they know better and can do it better. Who ends up hurt? Everybody.

    How can you get your Mom out of this situation? I think that is number one. This is hard enough as it is. Without making it a trio.

    Your daughter can get on welfare. She can get Section 8 housing (presuming you are in the USA). Many single mothers get by on their own jobs. I have known single moms who go to college, work and raise their children alone. There is Alcoholics Anonymous.

    People do what they have to do. If we do it for them, there is no incentive to do so. They wait for us to do it. And keep getting into more messes.

    I am glad you are here. Posting helps. On other people's threads too. That is how we learn how much we know and how strong we are. Pretty soon we will know you better and our posts to you will be more knowledgeable and helpful. Meanwhile. I am glad you are here. There is no judgement here. Only understanding. It may feel like we are being harsh, but it's because we care that we take a stand for you.

    PS Nothing about this is your fault.

    If she wants to go to college, why not online classes for now? That's what I do. For the most part I take online classes in community colleges in my state. But I also took a distance class in a state university in another state, this past semester, which cost more money but not that much more.
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    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  6. Crayola13

    Crayola13 Active Member

    She was able to get the Pell grant, so I think she will figure out bus routes. However, I know she's pregnant and having to walk to the bus stop in this heat probably wouldn't be a good idea. I want her to at least give college a shot, but I would have serious reservations about loaning her the car, based on what I have read. I really hope she can do this, but there is so much difficulty involved. Even under the best of circumstances, it's hard being seven months pregnant in the summer. Nowadays, teachers are really good about making concessions for pregnant students. Having a baby during the college semester seems impossible, but I know kids who have done it and managed to pass.
  7. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Copa, I couldn't agree with you more about Mom. But she can not stop her parent's enabling any more than she can make her daughter do right. How can she?

    There is really nothing we can say that will magically stop any adult from doing what they feel is right. All we can do is talk to them, but that often doesn't work. Certainly we can try and pray it works.

    I hope they back off, but they have been at this with their son for years and my guess is that she has asked them not to do that.

    The only control we have is over ourselves no matter how strongly we feel about the things that other family members do

    I love your advice and caring. This time I do not think she can do much, but I hope I am wrong.
  8. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I agree. But she can talk to her mom and state her position. And she can know with all of her heart that her mother is wrong to do what she is doing. And she can stop being guilt tripped and manipulated by her mother and stop doing things at her mother's behest. And I think she can get righteously pissed at her mother.

    I think we get confused. I wanted to speak strongly to support this mother. I know she can't control her mother. But she can control her own actions and thinking, over time.
    Absolutely. I agree one thousand percent.
  9. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    You are a good person. I didn't want to upset you. I totally agree with everything.
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Who's upset?

    My gosh, Busy. If I get upset you'll know it. But how could I be upset with you? I told you before. I think you're kind and I agree with (almost) all of your advice. I told you already. I think you are a gift to this forum and it's changed for the better with you here.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  11. SeekingStrength

    SeekingStrength Well-Known Member

    Totally agree with Copa, based on my own experiences. It will slow things down, not accelerate positive outcomes.

    My mom, who enabled Difficult Child more than anybody in the universe, guilted/shamed me to do things for Difficult Child years ago. Her stance was that husband and I were not giving Difficult Child a fair chance, that he deserved this or that chance or perk and I gave in several times - against husband's wiser approach.

    Looking back, she was mistaken with her advice, as was I for buckling under - against my better instincts. It never paid off.
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  12. DaisyC1234

    DaisyC1234 Member

    My dad paid some of it, just enough to get her license back while he has in town for 5 days lugging her around.

    She doesn't get a vote, though she thinks she does. It's our car and our decision. I don't want to live stressed out thinking she's going to wreck it, leaving us responsible. My husband did let her use our Yukon and when we got it back it smelled of smoke and had something spilled all over, she has no respect for other peoples things. We work hard for what we have.

    My stress levels are through the roof right now. I have Crohn's Disease and this really doesn't help at all. My mom has always felt the need to butt in. Last time we were there visiting them, they live about 4 hours away, my son Orion said something about Dez taking Cass's make-up and my mom got upset by that feeling the need to call me and say something about it being wrong and that should be kept between my husband, myself and Dez. I can't control with the other two talk about and vent to each other, I mean really.

    I don't think I can stop her and my dad from helping her. It's their money, their time. Before they knew she was pregnant they invited her to stay with them, but that's 4 hours away. My granddaughter's dad would have an issue with that, which her main reason for staying here.

    We live in AZ. She is currently on WIC, the state Health insurance she says she's going to apply for food stamps and section 8. She was waiting for her birth certificate to come in, will she actually do these things, who knows. I've been sending her links to different resources, like help for young single mothers and childcare assistance.
  13. DaisyC1234

    DaisyC1234 Member

    I am pissed, and I am not a confrontational person at all. I think eventually she'll call me and ask me why am I being so mean or unhelpful, then that's when I need to say something. She actually ended a game I had with her on Words with Friends and she never resigns from games.... oh well

    All of this just hurts me. I am sure they feel hurt by the fact that from their view it looks like I'm not helping the way that I should be. I am letting her stay with us until the end of September. She's eating our food, showers, so how is that not helping....
  14. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    Don't be hard on yourself. You are helping her A LOT!!

    You can't live her life or make her decisions!

    Our job as parents it to teach them to be independent and not coddle them - especially at age 26 with one child and one on the way!

    Sometimes older people can be narrow minded and stubborn. That could be part of the issue with your mother I think.
  15. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    I would be very upset if my parents treated me that way. They are respectful. I am not sure I would even talk to them if they disregarded my wishes all the time. I tend to pull out when I am unhappy.

    However being four hours away from you is a good thing. Too bad for your daughters baby daddy. Is he paying child support? Under any court rulings? If not, he isnt acting like a dad and you need a break.
  16. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I would tell my Mother how she makes me feel and that I want her to stop butting into my business . This doesn't have to be a big confrontation. Just a statement. What she does with it is on her, but at least I would have said my peace .

    You have the deadline of end of September. I would back off completely, no advice, no links, just go about your business. If she does ask you for suggestions/ input, empower her: I know you can handle it, you will make the right decision for yourself, I believe in you etc .And let her figure it all out on her own .

    I can only speak for myself here. I made my children helpless by doing everything for them while growing up, and now I complain they are helpless. I have backed off completely. My son has a therapist now who told him he is strong and capable and I told DC1 I agree with that and that would take a backseat and allow him to figure things out for himself. He said "I know why you do it, Mom, because you see me only put in 50%" .

    He has been applying to more jobs and wants to go to grad school. I told him he has to figure it all out for himself and he said he would .this feels so much better and I get to focus on me .
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  17. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    I did everything for all my kids yet only Kay is helpless. I am really surprised they all aren't. My younger two were independent at young ages and initiated things such as doing their own laundry and learning to cook and doing homework without any help or pushing. When I, say, cleaned their rooms both would say not to, that they liked to do their rooms their own ways. My son got a job young doing flyers on a bike and my daughter babysat at age 12. They always had enough money and we never asked them to work.

    My husband and I are ambitious and were a lot like they are. Can restlessness and being hardworking be inherited?

    These days I am so jaded that I am almost starting to think like Kay, that she can't do it because her birthmother was probably lazy. Help! She is starting to make me as "off" as she is. Kay has actually said that...its not her fault she doesn't like to work because her birthparents were probably lazy.

    I wish her friend had never called me. i have been my old wreck of a self since. I am sorry if I hijacked your thread. Yes, focus on yourself. Wise is so right. I need to get back to that too. Please be good to yourself.
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    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  18. ChickPea

    ChickPea Active Member

    We live in similar worlds.

    My parents were enabling my daughter primarily through housing (paying rent) for a decade. First she lived with them. Then she wore out that welcome (in many ways it was good because they saw first-hand how terrorizing her actions can be). I think to "make it not our problem (myself and my husband)" they helped her financially. I begged and pleaded for many years for them to stop, trying to explain how it was not helping.

    My parents are not green people when it comes to addictions, and they know about enabling. They just couldn't see that they were doing it. They thought they were protecting us from her and keeping her out of prostituting (they weren't - she used her apartment for it at times).

    At any rate, after the baby was born they stopped helping (about 4 months later after multiple conversations and a pending eviction). It's been hard watching her struggle, but we weren't about to let her live here no matter what, so at least we had that boundary drawn. I wish they would have stopped a couple years ago, but late is better than never.
  19. DaisyC1234

    DaisyC1234 Member

    So my enabling parents are paying for her phone and loaning here their car for who knows how long. Now we are the bad ones for having boundaries. They will grasp at any shimmer of light they see. She may be trying now, which has only been for like 3 weeks, but how long will that last, then after the baby. They probably gave her a credit card to put gas in the car also, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Do you think she will offer to pay insurance or maybe even pay partial car So now my parents will be coming to bring her their car on Sunday, thank goodness I'll be out of town until that evening. I'm not even sure I want to see them anytime soon.

    She lived with my parents for 8 months and literally did nothing. Why didn't she take that time to seek full-time employment and get a car. My parents moved 4 hours away and she literally didn't pack her things until the absolute last day, did she think they were faking it? On that day my dad was asked me if she could stay at our home, I said no, baby could stay, but not her. If she had taken that time at my parents to really work on getting her life together that would have been a different conversation. Mind you, they moved to get away.

    At times I catch myself trying to reason, well, maybe this will be the time she really gets on her feet or she's not that bad.

    I am devastated by this turn of events. I really love my parents, but all this time they brushed me aside for my brother and now my daughter.... wow. I am the good one! I really appreciate everyone one here. Hearing all the stories and that I'm not alone unfortunately, but we all have each other and can really understand.