Duping delight.

newstart

Well-Known Member
Duping delight occurs when successful liars get away with a lie and become delighted by their accomplishment.
Each time we spend time with our daughter we get to experience several 'duping delight' experiences. Last week she told us she trimmed the trees at our rent house, she went into detail, come to find out she did not do it at all just enjoyed a nice lie, made her feel powerful inside that she could pull another lie out on us.
In reality we question EVERYTHING she says and then decide if there is an ounce of truth to it. I have to be a detective to get the truth and listen to tone and put the pieces together like Sherlock Holmes. My husband and I don't say anything when she is dishing out duping delight because then it turns into a major fight where she defends her lies, I have never seen anyone put that much energy into a lie. I think the lies are just to hide something else.

So is this really a relationship? What is it? She calls, gives me gifts and sweet cards and then pulls the wool over my eyes and gets enjoyment out of ripping me off from the truth.
I remember when my sister in law hid everything from her mom. Her mother had a fit over everything, made a mountain out of a mole hill, I understood why my sister in law was secretive with her mother. I am NOT that type of mother. I was open and understanding, my daughter even said that to our therapist. So why the duping delight?
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Some people just enjoy lying to others. Their lies make them feel big or important or powerful. She clearly believes her lies will not have consequences. I am not sure how a therapist would diagnose this. I do know it isn't fun to be at the mercy of someone like this. My brother lied so much to my parents, and our mom at least believed them. Sadly, a few months before her liver got bad, my mother realized just exactly how often he lied to her. It broke her heart. I would simply not believe a word your daughter says. You need to limit the rewards she gets when she lies to you. Know that if you put a condition on anything, she will simply lie to you to get what she wants.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I have been in therapy a long time and my.own daughter never thought up a lie she didn't love. By our definition of her behavior, our very competent therapist thinks she has a Cluster B Personality Disorder....Borderline, Narcissism or Antisocial or a combo. All of those love to lie, manipulate and....I know I tried so hard but can not have a normal relationship with Kay. I don't think anyone can. Honesty and trust are so important to a good relationship.


This used to break my heart. I didn't understand it and still don't. I know nobody else that lies about the smallest things, such as "my sink is all clogged." Then hub hoes over to unclog it and it's fine. "I never told you that,"she insists. But we both heard her on speakerphone. What was the point?

Kay liked to gaslight us. And lie as well. She did it to Amy and Rick too. She is just not a healthy person so we can't have a healthy relationship with her. And her husband just sits back and doesn't challenge her lies although he knows they are lies too.

Please spend no more time asking yourself ,why because you and I will never know why. They may not know why.

Since I have had this heartbreaking experience too, I pray for you and send love with all my heart. This is not what we wanted yet we are surviving it. We are strong.

Have a peaceful day if you can. I try to smell the roses and live in the present. ❤️
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
I have a friend that does this. I finally have decided to make a huge change in that relationship. It’s insulting. I
can’t stand this behavior.
My “special” child has done this a lot over the years. Recent times...not as much.
she is in her early thirties.
I recall my son in his teens
and also some young gentleman I had worked with counseling. I told them, and fortunately they believed me, that perhaps 98 percent of the time you WILL be caught. If not right away...eventually. You might THINK all is well at the time of your deception...carefully crafted lie...but chances are very high you will be found out. SO...it’s simply not worth it. I recall all these young men were shocked. They thought the opposite. That they were smarter than most adults. That their lies would never be found out. When I rattled off several of theirs that were caught ...it’s as if a little light went on. I don’t think they EVER would of thought of that on their own. And of course that’s part of the entire thing...I successfully pulled a lie off ...aren’t I great? My dose of reality at least got them to start thinking.

Oddly...I never had the cojones to tell my friend that I’ve caught her in lies. That ive caught that stupid smirk. But ya know what...no one should act like that...especially adults. I’m done. I’m moving on.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I found that encountering the lies with Kay was met with "I never said/did that. YOU are lying about ME." Confrontation won't stop the lies most of the time in my opinion.

Lying is a very difficult issue to deal with.

Blessings.
 

ChickPea

Well-Known Member
I never knew there was an actual name for this, or I couldn't put a name to it. But I've seen my daughter in glee when she lies... sadly right now they are catching up to her in a windfall right now. Many times she's said she's "trying not to lie so much anymore." But it's going to take a while until I can actually believe that.
 

newstart

Well-Known Member
My therapist once told me that everyone lies at least 3 times a day, they maybe small lies but lies none the less. Since my husband and I have been lied to so much we listen very carefully when someone is talking to us in case they are lying. I do not believe everyone lies 3 times a day.
Since lying is offensive to me I try not to tell a white lie but sometime I do because I do not want to hurt someone's feelings.
I had a physical recently and I believe I have to be honest so the Dr can help me. I could tell by the way she was looking at me that she thought I was maybe lying. I know Dr's gets lied to on a regular basis so they have to put the puzzle pieces together. I think after listening to my tone she could tell I was not making stuff up. My Dr asked me some very personal questions. She said since Covid the domestic abuse has became much worse. I have never had those questions asked during a physical. A compulsive liar is very hard and grieving to deal with.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
This has been on my mind. I try not to lie because I really can’t stand being lied to. BUT...I suppose there are times it just gets to be the lessor of two evils if it’s a small “white” lie snd might lead to bad feelings...might be better to tell an untruth on a rare occasion. I’m talking about this type of thing “No...you don’t look plain in that dress.” I try not to do even those type of lies...but on a rare occasion...it can be the lessor of two evils. Or when it might hurt another person’s feelings ...” No ...I haven’t heard anything about Susie’s divorce.” (When maybe you have heard and even know a lot , but don’t feel it’s appropriate to talk about). I have a relative that is an expert at these white lies. She does it sooo much...it has caught my attention. I guess lying excessively can and will catch my attention. BUT...crazy lying PLUS that “duper’s delight” which pretty much always comes with the tiny smirk...ugh. Truly ugly.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
I hate liars also and I agree with the others that if I do lie, it would be to not to hurt others' feelings or share something that was not mine to tell and/or told to me in confidence.
 

Deni D

Well-Known Member
I've see this look, not from my son but from another young one in our neighborhood. At a certain point it was kind of like he wanted me to see how he was pretending to be innocent with a creepy sly smile on the side only for me to see, to let me know he was playing everyone with all of the crap he pulled to cause chaos in the neighborhood for other children, and there was nothing I could do about it. He had figured out I wasn't buying his bs but let me know with that very creepy side sly smile that he had control. He knew I was the only adult actually paying attention. It was not because of him, but because I was watching out for my own son's behavior and social appropriateness.

He was a menace, had others following him to keep from being snared in his web and being blamed for things he did. And then there were the innocent others who had no clue and got snared in his web. His parents fell for the craziest excuses for his behavior. As an example; he was often in physical fights, very often, excused by his supposedly having to "protect his sister". Funny though, not one other girl in the neighborhood needed to be protected by their brother getting into a physical fight with anyone, ever. Thankfully my son knew well enough to back off from him when he was looking for an excuse for a fight. He did many other things also, breaking things, sabotaging parties and successfully blaming others for all of his crap. Famously de-pantsing a very young girl on a trampoline and blaming another boy who was considered a good friend of his, who then got banned from being at most other houses in the neighborhood because her parents believed his lies about the other boy doing it. My son witnessed this bit but didn't have the power to speak up for the boy who took the fall for it. I could go on and on. I was so glad when they moved. There was something so very off with him. He's in jail now, has been in and out over the years. Having seen this look into the "devil's eyes" I just don't feel this "dupers delight" from what you say about your daughter.

To me it seems she's not doing amoral things and getting away with them for her delight, to screw with people, screw with you specifically. To me it seems she's lying about things saying she's behaving as she knows you would approve of, as she knows is right to do but is somehow stumpted on the follow through. At the core it's still lying though. And something I would be very put off about. In general I don't have much communication with people who I know lie to me, just can't trust someone who's not truthful. But in her case, because she's your daughter, I think I'd try to find a counselor who could give some insight to this kind of behavior specially from someone who lies to try to gain approval like it seems she does.

Please don't think I don't take it very seriously how devastating it is to you when someone you love so much behaves in such a manner. I get it, it's upside down and inside out. So different from anything we would expect from our adult children because it's just so alien from how we behave and how we raised them.
 

newstart

Well-Known Member
Hi DeniD, I read your post several times and you have a good way of looking at it. The devil in the eyes is something that I have seen from my daughter when she was in her late 20s often. Years passed and things got calmer, not the lying but the devil eyes, I did seem a bit of the devil smirk last August. I have taken my daughter to almost every counselor in town. We always discuss the lying. My daughter has been diagnosed with ADHD, mild bipolar. That is her official diagnosis. Her diagnosis are based on a 15 minute interview.. I know it's more than that, I highly suspect borderline plus the other stuff and anxiety mixed in there..

One of my therapists told me to ignore the lies another one said to call her on it. If I called her on it I would be in turmoil with her 24/7. So I listen to my heart and just assume everything she says is a lie. I do hear a few truths here and there and I can tell in her tone if it's a lie or not.
Thank you for your perspective.
 
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