For those watching the Casey A. trial.....

klmno

Active Member
Without having first hand knowledge (TG) of how this really plays out, I can only speculate that a defense attny in a death panealty case like this, when he really doesn't want to hear that his client intentionally committed 1st degree murder, might say something to his client like "well, we need to come up with a defense strategy; usually people have a chance of avoiding the death penalty if not being found not guilty if it was accidental, or there was abuse tht led them to commit the crime, or someone else was involved that coerced them", etc. And Casey ran with that.

As far as Casey- I really think she's the type of difficult child who gets mad when she doesn't see things going her way or someone isn't buying into her lies and she gets so mad that she retaliates. If that meant throwing her family under the bus because she's so mad that they wouldn't somehow get her out of this and because they were grieving so much for Caylee instead of feeling sorry for Casey, well, that was enough to justify it all for Casey, in her mind. Look at how angry she looked today, even when the judge was reading the instructions for the jurors.

Nancy, that was what I was trying to say but your words were much clearer. :)
 

klmno

Active Member
There are two ways in which a person may be convicted of first degree murder. One is
known as premeditated murder and the other is known as felony murder. In order to find the
defendant guilty of murder in the first degree, the State must convince you beyond a reasonable
doubt of the defendant’s guilt of either premeditated murder or felony murder. While you must all
agree that the State has proven first degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt, you need not be
unanimous in your opinion as to whether that finding is based upon premeditated murder or felony
murder as I shall now define those terms.

FELONY MURDER - FIRST DEGREE
§ 782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat.
To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three
elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.
2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was
engaged in the commission of Aggravated Child Abuse.
or
The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was
attempting to commit Aggravated Child Abuse.
3. Casey Marie Anthony was the person who actually killed Caylee Marie Anthony.
In order to convict of First Degree Felony Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove
that the defendant had a premeditated design or intent to kill.

This is copied from the instructions given to the jurors of this case this morning. I realize there are lesser charges and other info that was provided but I'm copying the whole thing or covering every possible scenario; I'm just trying to point out that in this case in Fl, the judge said 1st degree murder can be found under 2 scenarios, and the jury doesn't have to agree on which scenario it is as long as they all agree that it is 1st degree.
 
H

HaoZi

Guest
Thanks klmno. As long as they find her and sentence her, I'm not too picky which charge they pick for it.
 

klmno

Active Member
I need to correct myself- that was supposed to say "I'm not copying the whole thing."

I'm going to read now to see if I can figure out the difference between aggravated child abuse and "just" child abuse.

Here's the link if anyone wants to muddle thru the instructions with the legal definitions given by the judge:

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/Casey-Anthony-Jury-Instructions-0704.pdf

There are a lot of options for the jurors. The question about what constitutes aggravated child abuse was answered on the page after that describing 1st degree felony murder.
 

1905

Well-Known Member
She's going to be found guilty. I don't even want her to get death, that's too good for her. She should live out the rest of her miserable, long life, mixed in with the other prisoners. The death sentence area, offers privacy, I want her to have mental anguish. Plus there would be too many excuses for an appeal or a new trail. I don't actually care, as long as the verdict is guilty
 

klmno

Active Member
My main concern is that she stay locked up until she's too old to have another child. If they let her out when she's 60, I can get over it.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
true k

Ya know, Im actually sick today. My throat is sore, my head hurts and I am really depressed. Maybe I am having a severe bout of trialitis.
 

1905

Well-Known Member
I can't get that look on her face out of my mind. I'm really depressed, too. I think it's because I have to go back to work tomorrow. Once I get there I hope I feel better.
 

donna723

Well-Known Member
She will probably never ever be in the prison general population. She will either be on death row or she will be in protective custody until she's old and gray and people forget about what she's done. Personally I believe she should be thrown right in there and let the rest of them have at her but it will never happen.
 

klmno

Active Member
It's a very depressing case. While we can get caught up in making sure justice is done, we have no choice occassionally but to stop and think about that innocent little girl and know that no matter what the specific details were, she was murdered and for no justifiable reason and whatever those details were, they were unfathomable for most parents. And those of us on this board, well ok, at least me- has to stop and realize that Casey is the epitome of a difficult child. She is our worst fear as a parent of a difficult child. The anger, the lieing, the manipulation, the horrid crime, the emtional stress she's caused her parents under the pretense that if they did more it could have prevented this, the efforts made to hold out hope beyond hope that she was telling the truth and our worst fears maybe were just paranoia only to be thrown under the bus and accused of things that could cost us all our loved ones...it's all just too much for the normal person to be able to shrug their shoulders and walk away from and forget about.
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
It's a very depressing case. While we can get caught up in making sure justice is done, we have no choice occassionally but to stop and think about that innocent little girl and know that no matter what the specific details were, she was murdered and for no justifiable reason and whatever those details were, they were unfathomable for most parents. And those of us on this board, well ok, at least me- has to stop and realize that Casey is the epitome of a difficult child. She is our worst fear as a parent of a difficult child. The anger, the lieing, the manipulation, the horrid crime, the emtional stress she's caused her parents under the pretense that if they did more it could have prevented this, the efforts made to hold out hope beyond hope that she was telling the truth and our worst fears maybe were just paranoia only to be thrown under the bus and accused of things that could cost us all our loved ones...it's all just too much for the normal person to be able to shrug their shoulders and walk away from and forget about.


You express it very movingly, klmno. It seems like the only hope for Casey now, in some wider moral sense, is if she could start engaging with the truth of what happened, to herself and then others... I find her denial frightening.
 
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HaoZi

Guest
News this morning said that her former attorney, Baden, said she doesn't expect Casey to walk away, that their main goal was to spare her from the death penalty. They've also mentioned that the jury was avoiding looking at the defense table when they came in.
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
As you all know the whole circus is very bothersome to me. I just can't help feeling like a voyeur and the hordes of people waiting to hear her sentenced to death or life imprisonment reminds me of the Gladiators. It makes me uncomfortable. That's why I have stopped watching the case and only click on for the many updates.

on the other hand I am surprised how much potential evidence was excluded from the trial...at least based on the multi shows covering the case. For example, I heard on two network shows that Casey made twelve unanwered telephone calls to George and Cindy on the day of the tragedy. It seems like one side or the other would have used that to their advantage. The Defense could surely say that indicated panic and supports the accidental death..although it would also tend to prove that George wasn't around. The DA could have used it probably to indicate guilt. The girlfriend of George also said that she turned over her phone and text messages to the Prosecution that showed continuing contact but only that one telephone call was included. I can see the DA not including that info but the Defense would have a proven record of contact that would have more strongly proven that George misrepresented his relationship with her.

I'm also a bit surprised that the Defense didn't try to neuter the pictures of her partying by showing evidence that 2011 bars for young people are dominated by pole dancing, shot contests, sexy clothing and less discriminate sexual contact than was true ten or twenty years ago. Geez, if you look at those pictures and you were raised forty years ago it makes her definitely look like a "Ho". The personal witnesses about her "shot girl" nights was actually positive. It was said that she didn't drink, didn't do drugs, was supportive of the girls who worked under her etc.

Last night during a five minute viewing of (ugh, lol) Nancy Grace there was a private investigator who
said that he had been on the property, contacted the State and the Defense and neither one ever got back to him. Seems like that happened alot. After three years I'd think that every lead would have been followed.

My opinion remains the same. I don't believe that she set out to murder her child. I do, however, think Caylee died while in her care. My guess is she couldn't figure out what to do, tried to reach her parents with-o success, then realized that they would never forgive her and used her demented brain to try to avoid the consequences of her actions. I think she probably laid Caylee in the backyard and thought about burying her there, realized that wouldn't work. Likely she then opted to make the disposal of the body as loving as she could figure out to do. Wrapping her in her own blanket. Then perhaps applying duct tape to keep her face intact and topping it off with a heart to indicate her feelings. Placing her body close to the home could also indicate that she wanted Caylee nearby.

All in all it is so sad and discombobulating. But, the circus atmosphere bothers me. The repeated and repeated displays of Caylee's pictures has begun to seem like an immoral way to make big bucks for the television stations. I guess the social networking mindset has taken it over the top. DDD
 

Malika

Well-Known Member
3D, I do agree with what you've said and my own sense of what happened in this case is similar to your own. That said, I have been as guilty as anyone of indulging the circus in that I have watched the case with interest. As a human story, it has been rather gripping. And yes, there has also been something faintly disturbing about my own voyeurism since what we are talking about is the tragic death of a child, not some entertainment for the masses...
What I don't understand is why, since I do feel also that this was a "horrible accident" that was also of course criminally culpable, Casey has not confessed to this, knowing she would thereby escape with a much lighter sentence...
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
The jury not looking at the defendant is usually a bad sign.

There are a lot of things that haven't come out during trial. There are legal reasons they didn't and I suppose if we want to find out what and why we will have to wait for the book.

DDD do you have any thoughts on why Baez did not propose the theory that you expressed? I said in an earlier post the he could have said it was an accident and Casey was in a panic and didn't know what to do and tried to cover it up. But him bringing George and Kronk and everything else into it, the story became unbelieveable. Also I'm curious if you watched the OJ case? I use to watch Court TV all the time until we no longer got it on our cable. Now I watch In Session if they have a case I think is interesting. Obviously this case has drawn a lot of followers. I don't mind it broadcast, what I mind is the hundreds of people fighting int he line to watch. They are the ones who are making it a circus.

After all is said and none the only opinions that matter is the jury's.

Nancy
 
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