He peed on the floor!

[ShakespeareMamaX]

Yup...my difficult child came downstairs and said he was scared (again). He does this often and, usually, it's just a copout to stay up later. (I take these things more seriously if he's already been sleeping.)

Well...this time, I told him he needs to go to bed or I would close his door. He looked sad and walked away towards his room.

When he got to the kitchen my husband and I heard something splashing on the floor. I walked in and, sure enough, PEE! All over the floor, next to the garbage can. I checked his pants to see if he just let it go while walking or he actually pulled them down to do the deed.

Yeah...pants were dry. So I confronted him and asked if he just did this because he was mad. He said "no" and I said I believed that WAS the reason. He mustered up the evilest look he could and stared me down.

I had him clean it up, gave him a lecture and sent him to bed.

What the heck?!

This also brings to mind that my difficult child's come home from his biodad's house, on occasion, with his underpants completely stained yellow. When asked if he had an accident in his pants, he denies it (most likely, out of embarrassment).

*sigh* What do I do???

P.S. difficult child was also just suspended for the second time this MONTH, on Thursday for running away from everybody. Then, he ran out of the school and they called the police on him.

Really....how much can one mother take?

 

[Wiped Out]

I'm sorry he is struggling. Sounds like you handled it well by just having him clean it up and sending him to bed. I remember when my difficult child did things like this. It was always so frustrating. Eventually they grow out of it but I didn't think I was going to make it until he did.

I'm sorry for his suspension. I know how hard that is. Hugs.

 

[witzend]

I also think you handled it well. And I am really sorry that he is doing this. This is so hard to be on the parenting end of.

 

[Marguerite]

Making him clean it up is good consequencing.

I wish I could tell you what I think he could be thinking - but this is just too far out of left field for me. I do remember having big problems with nightmares and night terrors and I would be anxious about going to bed in a dark room. My sisters didn't help, one especially took great delight in scaring me even more. But if my parents had let me have a reading lamp it would have made a huge difference.

What did he say he was afraid of? Even if it was only a bluff, you can call the bluff by finding a way around the 'fear'. Such as a reading lamp for fear of the dark, or a search of the wardrobe plus locking it up with the key, if the kid has seen "Monsters Inc" too recently. Door closed, door open, light on, light off, window open, window closed - let him have some control over his environment and ask HIM for solutions to reduce the fear. What does he expect you to do? Allowing him to stay up (which you said is what you think he's after) is no solution, because if you get over-tired, the nightmares are worse (speaking from experience).

And to pee on the floor like that - pure spite, revenge for not getting his own way.

He does sound like a troubled soul, with a great deal of stress. I'm really not sure what more you can do. You do seem to be doing things right, but that's not a guarantee that the kid is going to be OK.

Marg

 

[Kjs]

Just throwing this out. Has he ever been tested for diabetes?

A close family friend had a child that had nightmares, would get up and do strange things such as that. Turned out he had diabetes and was then given insulin. His behavior changed.

 

[DDD]

I have no answers for you but I must toss in my thoughts on the
threat to close the door. As a lifelong easy child, now well into my
sixties, I still get nervous if someone else closes a door on
me. Whether his fear is real or not, I really encourage you to
not use his fears as a threat or punishment. One bad experience
when I was around eight, has resulted in lifelong claustrophobia.
Yep...no kidding. DDD

 

[flutterbee]

Is he afraid to be upstairs by himself when everyone else is downstairs? Is the bathroom upstairs? Just wondering if he peed where he did because he was afraid to go up to the bathroom. Maybe he tried to 'hit' the garbage can but missed?

Just tossing some things out there. I have a difficult child and a easy child who were both anxiety ridden (difficult child way more than easy child and easy child has grown out of it), but they were too afraid to be upstairs by themselves at night. I would stay upstairs until they went to sleep. As long as they knew I was up there, they pretty much went right to sleep. If something was upsetting easy child, he would bring a sleeping bag into my room even if I wasn't in there yet. He did this often after coming home from visits with his dad. He would sleep in my room for a couple of weeks and then go back to his own room on his own.

(((hugs))) I know it's hard. I've found, though, that there is usually a reason behind this kind of behavior. Sometimes it's just hard to find.

 

[BusynMember]

Why do you think your son isn't having anxiety? I'm going back to when I was thirteen and so full of anxiety I was terrified to be alone, be in the dark of my room, be upstairs when my parents were downstairs, etc. My parents told me to "get over it."
Maybe your son has sensory issues or an immature bladder or maybe he really WAS scared and that was his way of proving it...just a few suggestions.

 

[Steely]

So sorry you are having such a hard time.

You mention in your profile that it is time for a new evaluation, has that happened yet? Just wondering if him being only on an anti-depressant could be making things worse. Often with our kids, just a stand alone SSRI can increase odd behaviors, impulsivitiy, and aggression. Sometimes they need a mood stabilizer of some sort to help them calm their impulses. Just a thought.

Sending positive thoughts your way.

 

[SearchingForRainbows]

As others have already said, I think you handled the situation very well. I'm wondering, as someone else already asked, has he been reevaluated yet? When a difficult child is unstable, life is extremely difficult!!!

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. WFEN

 

[ShakespeareMamaX]

Alright...this is going to be long, but I've tried to answer all of your questions to the best of my ability. Please, keep them coming. And if anyone has explanations for anything I've said, BRING IT ON, please!

Originally Posted By: Marguerite
What did he say he was afraid of? Even if it was only a bluff, you can call the bluff by finding a way around the 'fear'. Such as a reading lamp for fear of the dark, or a search of the wardrobe plus locking it up with the key, if the kid has seen "Monsters Inc" too recently. Door closed, door open, light on, light off, window open, window closed - let him have some control over his environment and ask HIM for solutions to reduce the fear. What does he expect you to do? Allowing him to stay up (which you said is what you think he's after) is no solution, because if you get over-tired, the nightmares are worse (speaking from experience).

He's afraid of a lot (kinda like me). He doesn't like the dark, things in his room, his door closed, etc... That night he said he was hearing things (I explained that the baby could be making noise and the TV is on downstairs and could just be carrying up through the floor and we have 2 cats that could be fooling around). I've given him a lamp, but he spilled water on it and proved it's too dangerous to have in his room (I'm thinking about battery operated tap lights, now). He has the curtains open so the parking lot lights flood his room with light, too. He has the choice to leave his door open (with no heat) or close it (with the heat on). As unfair as this may seem, our house is so big, that if he leaves the door open, there's no point to the heat as it all just drifts away and is still cold in his room (our house is heated room by room). In the summer, he had to earn his window being opened and it could only be opened about 5 inches (he throws things out and hangs out of it). There's a special lock that now prevents him from endangering himself, but he was pretty good about staying away from it so he could have it opened. He had the option of a fan, but completely disassembled it one day, so we had to start putting it in his room after he fell asleep and removing it before he woke up (what a pain!). He can't have a bureau in him room because he rips all the clothes out and mixes them with his dirty clothes (holy laundry, batman!). He has no toys to comfort him because he's scared of them at night. The only time I'm more attention giving (as opposed to just sending him back to his room) is if he wakes up after having fallen asleep as he sleepwalks and has many nightmares. I just posted in the "it's 3:45 and K's still awake" topic about why my son is so scared all the time. Check it out. This may help explain a bit more.


Originally Posted By: Kjs
Just throwing this out. Has he ever been tested for diabetes?

Actually, I just went to the pediatrician and asked for a test as difficult child's p g-ma "threw that out", too. Yeah...she said the psychiatrist needs to take care of this. Did I mention I'm thinking about relocating to a new pediatrician? Heh... Besides the point, though...this was a total act of defiance, this time. If you had seen the evil look on my son's face after he did it...well, you'd understand.

Originally Posted By: wyntersgrace
Is he afraid to be upstairs by himself when everyone else is downstairs? Is the bathroom upstairs? Just wondering if he peed where he did because he was afraid to go up to the bathroom. Maybe he tried to 'hit' the garbage can but missed?

He is afraid to be upstairs, but I don't know what to do about that. He's not alone as his sis is up there, too, and I tell him I can always hear him through her baby montitor and we're right underneath him if he needs us.

Originally Posted By: MidwestMom
Why do you think your son isn't having anxiety? I'm going back to when I was thirteen and so full of anxiety I was terrified to be alone, be in the dark of my room, be upstairs when my parents were downstairs, etc. My parents told me to "get over it." Maybe your son has sensory issues or an immature bladder or maybe he really WAS scared and that was his way of proving it...just a few suggestions.

I'm sure my son is having anxiety...I was and am still exactly like him (with the exception of throwing things out windows, disassembling fans and the clothes mixing). I totally sympathize with him and try to be as accommodating as I can without letting him walk all over me. It's hard to draw the line of how much is too much, ya know? I would like to check on the bladder thing...quite the legitimate question...this time, though...I'm SURE it wasn't bladder issues. How would sensory issues play into this? I know he does have some issues (mouthing things

Originally Posted By: WeepingWillow
You mention in your profile that it is time for a new evaluation, has that happened yet? Just wondering if him being only on an anti-depressant could be making things worse. Often with our kids, just a stand alone SSRI can increase odd behaviors, impulsivitiy, and aggression. Sometimes they need a mood stabilizer of some sort to help them calm their impulses. Just a thought.

No new evaluation. STILL trying to find a doctor that takes my ins and covers my area. He has an appointment with a neuro in Dec. I'm hoping this brings up some answers. The school should finally be doing some tests, as well. I'm crossing my fingers they can come up with some explanation. I've discussed things like Risperdal with my psychologist (the darn psychiatrist is never around!!!). He's been my only means of communication with the psychiatrist. When he spoke with the medication doctor, he only kept saying "up the Wellbutrin". So that's what he did. 100mgs a day, 2x a day. No change, so far, but he just started this increase, so... I don't blame the medications for his agression, at all. There was a time (last summer) I had the doctor take him off of everything (Strattera, for a month was the last medication he had been on) to see what my son's natural baseline was. I had never seen him so aggressive and that scared the -you know what out- of me. He's going through the exact same behavior now, showing me that these medications probably aren't doing anything, at all. The medication doctor seems to think it's just not enough Wellbutrin. We'll see. The peeing thing, though? Brand spanking new behavior. Hooray! Let's see what else he can pull out of his sleeve.

 

[BusynMember]

Ok, hon. Is he going to see a neuropsychologist? I think he'd probably come up with more than ADHD--maybe the medications are wrong. I understand that you are at wit's end. I personally feel NeuroPsychs do better evaluations than Psychiatrists. We didn't have much luck with psychiatrists. Believe it or not, our neuropsychologist took Medicaid. Many University Hospitals do take it, as do their staff, and most of the time they are excellent. I'd want this child tested for being on the Spectrum, and Psychiatrists often know little about that (our psychiatrist said my son had bipolar). Also, NeuroPsychs test function in all areas--they really are awesome!!! (((Hugs)))

 

[ShakespeareMamaX]

Now, question for you, MidwestMom:

Is there a difference between a neuropsychologist and a neurologist?

He's going to see the neurologist (should have mentioned that).

 

[BusynMember]

A big difference. A Neurologist basically will test him for things he can see, like epilepsy. We had no luck with Neurologists diagnosing my son right. NeuroPsychs do intellectual and behavioral testing in detail.

 

[Steely]

HOLY COW, that is A LOT of Wellbutrin for a little guy! I think that is near an adult dose.

I would keep a journal, daily, and as you increase the Wellbutrin, journal his activities. If you notice more aggression, than you might have just found a piece to your puzzle. There are not too many kids on this board with mood liability issues that can just use a SSRI as a stand alone medication without it causing additional problems.

Good luck! Definitely time to find a new psychiatrist. I think I would make that your first priority.

 

[ShakespeareMamaX]

Thank you for the explanatin of the neuros. I like the sound of the psychiatric. I'll go on a journey to find one, tomorrow.

Thank you!

P.S. He came out and admitted he did it out of anger. One more step, right? Admission? The truth? *sigh*

 

[ShakespeareMamaX]

Hello, again! I just checked the normal dosage for a child with Wellbutrin. Surprisingly, it's no more than 450mgs a day.

Reading all the seizure warnings kind of scared me, though. It's nice how a doctor will just neglect to mention side effects like that.

 

[TiredSoul]

I am not sure about the peeing on the floor thing. I have been trying to find out some information on the internet about it because my difficult child did it just the other day in the hall. This was the first time he ever did this - and nothing was going on at the time (no arguments, no nothing - normal day, he was playing a video game, and then peed in the hallway just outside the bathroom all over the floor and on the oil filled radiator heater that is there).

He told me all kinds of stories when I asked him about it. First he told me it was water, then he said it was pee, then he said he puked. It was pretty clear it was urine because of the pattern on the floor (like a stream of pee and then some dribbles, etc). Finally he told me he lied and it really was pee, but he did not know why he did it. I asked him if he just couldn't get to the toilet in time and he said he didn't know. It wasn't just some pee, it was his entire bladder full.

We have noticed from time to time that there is pee on the floor in the bathroom by the toilet, in the corner next to the toilet and a couple times on the wall by the toilet. I always thought he just wasn't paying attention and missed, but then his teacher commmented that other children tell her he pees on the floor or wall in the restroom at school. I asked our psychiatric doctor about it and he said we need to find out if it is intentional. If it was intentional then it is unacceptable behavior and it should be dealt with. He did not go into if it is not intentional - or if there could be a psychiatric reason for it. I think there has got to be some reason why that particular question is on mental health questionaires.

Following is some stuff I read on the internet:

Unlike children with involuntary enuresis, children who intentionally urinate in inappropriate places often have other serious psychiatric disorders.

Voluntary, or intentional, enuresis may be associated with other mental disorders, including behavior disorders or emotional disorders including anxiety.

Unlike involuntary enuresis, voluntary enuresis is not common. It is associated with such psychiatric disorders as oppositional defiant disorder, and is substantially different from ordinary nighttime bed-wetting. Voluntary enuresis is always secondary.

 

[ShakespeareMamaX]

I just heard something a little scary.

I was talking to a woman at my job about what my difficult child's been doing. Upon peeing on the floor for the first time, he also sat from the time school started until 11:00am COMPLETELY silent. The only communication he made was writing "I am not talking to anyone" on the board. He did his work and sat the whole time! Woo hoo! Unfortunately, after that, things went downhill and he went back to his old behavior and then some (grabbing lunch from the lunch lady, climbing on the hot counters, ect...).

When I told the woman at my job about the peeing and the silent thing, she told me her son did the exact same thing. I asked her what he did next, in order to be prepared.

She said...self mutilation. Well, I don't wanna jump to conclusions and send him to a psychiatric ward or anything, but I may be more weary about where I'm leaving the knives. I told the school to keep an extra watch on him, but not to mention anything about it as I'd not like him to get ideas.

Does this sound common to anyone?

Also, so much for the school keeping a close watch... The "detention" teacher left him in the room alone, again and, of course, found him running down the hallways, later on. Dummmmb duh dumb dumb duuuuuuuuuumb

 

[stepmom47]

When my difficult child lived here he would pee down the front of the toilet.
So when you walked in your feet would be all wet cause of the rug.
I spent hours on hands and knees every day cleaning the bottom of the toilet and the floor and washing the rugs.

He claimed that it was easy child that was doing it???
Needles to say as soon as he moved out there was no more pee down the front of the toilet.

He still does it at bio-moms house and she just leaves it sitting there. GROSS!!!!
I never had him pee anywhere else...not that I know of anyway?

Schools are great arn't they....