How Can He Ignore This

threebabygirls

New Member
I haven't been on CD for months, and wasn't on long before I stopped coming, so this may seem suspicious. I logged on to talk about my difficult child now that summer vacation is here and things have hit the fan, and your post caught my eye.
I've sat here and read every reply, and I feel sick to my stomach. I am currently reading "Columbine," the indepth investigation that took years to right. A lot of your stepson's behavior reminded me of what Eric Harris was like. I'm only half-way through the book, but one of the lead investigators on the team, an FBI hostage negotiator/psychologist, classified Harris as a psychopath. The things that stick out to me are the lack of remorse, your difficult child's ability to con people (Eric Harris was verrrrrryyy charming), and when you wrote about his creepy smile about the window alarms gave me chills. Eric Harris could read people very easily and he always knew exactly what they wanted to hear, and when he got caught with some of his crimes, he'd admit to just enough but would lie about most of it.
I know I don't know you and this is the first I'm hearing of your troubles at home, but it's sounding to me that difficult child is on his way to full-blown psychopathy.
Something else you said keeps returning to me; about your getting a raise in the spring and being able to afford to live elsewhere. Maybe you and your minor child could go to the condo you bought and your college kids could find campus housing?
 

susiestar

Roll With It
I am so glad you saw a lawyer. You really NEED to take action as soon as you possibly can. I just have this feeling that difficult child is setting you or one of your sons to take a major fall. A report to child protection that you are abusing difficult child, police report that YOUR son (s?) have been stealing gameboys and planting them on difficult child, or planting illegal drugs on him.

(As for the school telling you that only 1 child is on medication is horse feces. Unless there are only 10 kids in the school.)

All that difficult child does that is so unhinged and violent or bordering on violent seems to be staged so that YOU are upset, husband finds a way to sweep it under the rug (isn't it hard to walk across all that crud that is under the rug?), and difficult child gets some kind of reward - even if it is just chaos that is difficult child's reward.

i think your wee difficult child is very much an antisocial personality. This means he is very dangerous, very crafty and cunning, and probably that he will end up hurting someone.

I cannot give a legal/official diagnosis. So I may just be very very wrong. But I think this kid is setting you up to go broke or worse. He MUST be considered dangerous.

I think your husband is at least as dangerous as difficult child. husband is WILLFULLY blind to difficult child and his behaviors. There is no excuse for letting the kid keep stolen property, blowing off the illdegal drugs, ignoring the knives at school, well, ALL of it.

husband REFUSES to see this. What example are you setting for your kids by not removing them from this volatile and dangerous situation? Is it the message you want to send to them, the example you want to model for them?

Getting the condo in another city is an excellent idea.

I am continuing to pray for you and your kids. And even for husband and his difficult child.

As for the cruise, maybe you need to insist that difficult child not come or that husband stays glued to him during the cruise. Make sure that you are NOT in a room with husband and difficult child. Keep YOUR room locked, and your sons' rooms locked 24/7.

It would not surprise me if the same person who spreads syrup all over the floor and does other bizarre things continues to do this even when on the cruise. How horrible would it be to wake up and find ALL your clothes covered in pancake syrup or jelly or whatever.

IF he does any acting out you need to have the cruise staff take him to your husband - refuse to accept any part of it. Because if you are involved you are gonna get blamed.

I am so sorry. This is just gutwrenching. But you may need to insist that you and husband are a family of different addresses until husband finds the care that difficult child needs. It CAN work out.

Gentle hugs

Susie
 

Marguerite

Active Member
WSM, you really have a handle on this. DO make sure you get to say all you just said to us. A serious suggestion - print it out and hand it to the therapist. Maybe even post him an advance copy.

I'm glad you're investigating your options re leaving, even if it's only until your clear yourself (and get your scabby legs recovered a bit more!)

Be good to yourself. Someone needs to be.

Marg
 

WSM

New Member
daughter's DS and gameboy were found this morning. In difficult child's mattress. I don't know how husband found them. He said he looked in the mattress (remember it was slashed) before. It wasn't there before and today it was there--smashed. difficult child said it was planted on him; if he'd known they were there, he'd have been playing them, not breaking them.

I think I know what he's doing, but haven't said anything to husband. I think he's storing his contraband in the bathroom. husband gets him up in the morning and difficult child is already dressed, he goes into the bathroom, stashes his contraband somewhere, then when he goes out of the bathroom, he's 'clean'. During the day the contraband stays in the bathroom, and it's during the day that his room gets searched. At night, husband takes him to the bathroom where in privacy he retrieves his contraband, he goes in his room where he's left alone for the rest of the night.

THere's still the gift gameboy that husband took away from him missing.
 

jbrain

Member
Hey, WSM,
I have a question about the cruise. This cruise is with your family, right? Not husband's family. Why do husband and difficult child have to go along? Can you uninvite them? If not, I certainly agree that they should have a room together and you should stay as far away from them as possible. I so agree with others who have said difficult child have psychopathic or antisocial traits--I think he is dangerous.

Hugs to you,
Jane
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I didn't realize that the cruise was a gift to your kids. Absolutely go but ignore these two losers. difficult child will get into trouble, of course, and it won't be his fault.

If you can afford a cruise, you can afford to move. Get out of there. husband is his partner in crime. Both are very sick and need a lot of help. husband knows his child is stealing. Let's just say if he doesn't know, then he needs to be committed himself.

Sadly, you can't save the stepdaughter. All you can do is call CPS and hope for the best. This difficult child is glib and charming and knows how to "play" authority figures so that you, not him, is the doubted one. Ugh. I couldn't stand it. Please leave before you're in trouble because of him. Or before he kills somebody. (((Hugs)))
 

WSM

New Member
...it's sounding to me that difficult child is on his way to full-blown psychopathy...

I believe difficult child is an emerging psychopath. I've shared that with husband which he does not appreciate. Very few professionals will diagnosis antisocial personality disorder in people as young as difficult child. It's supposedly not diagnosable before age 18 (unless I supposed you murder a bunch of people). But all psychopaths had a childhood. If you say that to a professional and you are a stepmother, they just think you are a jealous stepmother who hates her stepchild.

I think also difficult child has some mental illness, it does run strong in his maternal family (and there is austism and probably personality disorders such as histrionic and dependency and narcissistic PDs in husband's family--but those are undx'd).

I used to think the mix of personality disorder to mental illness was 40 to 60 with- more personality disorder. Now I think the mental illness is around 20 percent. And I've had the thought that he's faking the mental illness: after all, it's getting him: poor difficult child, he's troubled, he's sick, he needs help, we need to go easy on him. Maybe not.

I do think even if he's faking some, he's not faking all: he does have some obsessive compulsive behavior and some anxiety.
 

CrazyinVA

Well-Known Member
Staff member
WSM, your comment above re diagnoses under 18 reminded me of some information I came across in Wikipedia the other day. I was actually reviewing their entry on Borderline (BPD), but this part was intersting:

"There are some instances when Borderline (BPD) can be evident and diagnosed before the age of 18. The DSM-IV states: To diagnose a personality disorder in an individual under 18 years, the features must have been present for at least 1 year.' In other words, it is possible to diagnose borderline personality disorder in children and teens, but only if the symptoms have been present, continuously, for over a year."

If the DSM-IV says this about Borderline (BPD), I would assume it's true of other personality disorders, as well. I've never bought the line of personality disorders not being diagnosable until adulthood. As my daughter's psychiatrist said to me once (after a psychiatric hospital social worker told me Oldest couldn't have Borderline (BPD), she was too young) .. adolescence is when the personality is developing, so of course they can be diagnosed.
 

Lothlorien

Active Member
Weighing in here, I think your husband is in such denial and I think he's convinced the therapist and psychiatrist that difficult child could not possibly do all he's done.

I'd be afraid to take him on the cruise, because he would steal from someone else, set one of you up and then you'd be dealing with foreign authorities.

Living with alarms and security cameras in your own home is no way to live. I would have been out of there a long time ago. This kid has some serious issues and his father is in pure denial. After hearing all of this, I'm just picking my jaw off the keyboard.

What is the syrup thing all about? How is he getting ahold of said syrup?
 

smallworld

Moderator
From what I've been told by our professionals (my son has an emergent Avoidant Personality Disorder), adolescents are continually growing and changing, and that is the time to deal head-on with emergent personality disorders. By age 18 or 19 the qualities of the personality disorder become embedded in the personality, which makes the disorder incredibly difficult to treat at that point.
 

threebabygirls

New Member
I believe difficult child is an emerging psychopath. I've shared that with husband which he does not appreciate. Very few professionals will diagnosis antisocial personality disorder in people as young as difficult child. It's supposedly not diagnosable before age 18 (unless I supposed you murder a bunch of people). But all psychopaths had a childhood. If you say that to a professional and you are a stepmother, they just think you are a jealous stepmother who hates her stepchild.

I certainly do not envy you your position. You are such a strong person to have dealt with this for so long. After my post last evening I continued reading "Columbine" and it went deeper into the signs/symptoms of psychopathy. It also mentioned what you did, about pros being extremely reluctant to diagnosis something so horrific in a minor.

It argues the nature/nurture point. In the 1970's a Dr. Robert Hare created a psychopathy checklist, which is the basis for all current research in the subject. Dr. Hare believes psychopaths are born with a predisposition to psychopathy, and the person's environment affects it little or if it's a dysfuntional atmosphere, make a bad situation worse. He described a 5 yr old girl trying to repeatedly flush her kitten down the toilet. When caught, she was extremely unconcerned about it, just slightly angry she got caught. When the child's mom told her dad, the girl calmly denied the whole thing.
Dr. Hare created a screening device for minors and identified hallmarks that often appear during the school years: "gratuitous lying, indifference to the pain of others, defiance of authority figures, unresponsiveness to reprimands or threatened punishment, petty theft, persistent aggression, cutting classes and breaking curfew, cruelty to animals, early experimentation with sex, and vandalism and setting fires." I got these out of "Columbine" by Dave Cullen. Eric Harris had all but the cruelty to animals.
As I read all of that I couldn't help but grow more concerned for your and your children's well-beings. I obviously am not a professional but I am very disturbed by your difficult child's behavior.
 

WSM

New Member
I'll get that book, maybe today, if I can find it at target.

difficult child does not set fires (altho he has played a bit with matches but not for a while now). And he doesn't hurt animals, he's actually very nice to the dog and she's a timid thing, she's not afraid of him at all.

But the rest is all true.
 

threebabygirls

New Member
It's an excellent book; this guy has been working on it for 9 years and set out to clear up all the misconceptions and outright lies that most of us have heard over the years since that awful day. I've always wondered exactly what was up with Harris and Klebold and now I know.
I'm glad to hear that difficult child doesn't set fires and torture animals. You and yours are in my thoughts.
 

eekysign

New Member
Aren't the fire setting and especially the cruelty to animals the "biggies" that set psychopathy apart from other disorders, though? Along with early sexual experimentation? I mean, the others factors are fairly common in a lot of our non-psychopathic kids' issues, maybe.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, YOU DON'T KNOW if he's cruel to animals. He's nice to them in front of you. So was our psychopathic difficult child. He killed them when we weren't looking, including neighborhood animals and strays. He admitted this after he left us, but he acted like he LOVED animals in front of adults (this is part of a dangerous psychopathic kid--they are outwardly charming and likable). Our child also acted like he LOVED little kids and had helped his foster mom of five years with her daycare kids. In fact, he offered to help her. Too bad we all find out later, including foster mom of five years finding out, that he sexually abused kids in every house he had been in. The biggest scary part of a psychopath (and the signs are there in this child) is an ability to be liked. They are usually very bright (see Ted Bundy) and know how to con people. Like our child could. Like this difficult child can. Also, did he NOT set the house on fire recently???? I don't believe it was an accident and he is too old not to know to leave matches alone. He DID perp on his sister--I will stand by saying that you have no idea how much or how often, but even once is too much.
I doubt he has BDP--he is sicker than that.
However, I get the feeling that you are going to stay regardless of the dangers to yourself and your children. If so, take notes on everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING this child does and says and claims. And have cameras running in every room and also in your yard. We had them, and psychopathtic child broke it and made my other son he broke it.
You have your hands full, and if you decide to stay your life will probably continue to be hell. Hub as difficult child will abuse you until there is nothing left of you. I don't know why you are even thinking of not leaving, but you have my prayers (and you need them). This is a very dangerous situation for you and yours. I truly hope that you, as well as your clueless hub, see the light and take measures to protect yourselves against this dangerous kid. I think he's crazy--crazy like a fox. And not really curable. But his best and only shot in my opinion is out of the home. (((Hugs)))
 
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