I need some advice

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I have to run out but my first thought is that his drinking is making his depression worse. One condition I personally would insist on to live at home, if this were Kay, is seeing a Psychiatrist for medication and you give it to him each day. This would not be negotiable. In some people depression is clinical and will not go away without medication and certain types of therapy such as CBT or DBT. We can't force them to do ANYTHING but we can set conditions they have to follow in order to live with us in our home. Therapy can help him with his view of his disability and life. You feel sorry for him. Therapy teaches us to cope with our cards.

Your son's depression won't get better no matter where he lives unless he treats it. Clinical depression is an illness and does not get better just because our circumstances change. And alcohol is a depressant. It makes depression worse. He probably would need help for both issues. If he refuses and sits around and refuses treatment and medications he likely will be unable to feel good enough to motivate himself to get well.

My daughter has refused all treatment. She is not better over a decade later. Heck, I got real depressed because of Kay and got help and took an anti depressant for a few years and it helped...and words can't explain how bad I felt taking it....until my mood slowly became normal again, in spite of Kay still floundering.

Depression can make people's perceptions change. It makes everything seem worse. So they become mean and abusive to us because we care about them and their lives are miserable. I would guess that 90 percent of the kids who bring us here use drugs AND have mental illness too. You can't help him but you can help yourself by insisting he try at least if he wants to live with you.

Just my two cents. Hugs and love.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am so very sorry you and he both are suffering.

This is tragic. My son feels stigmatized and disfigured. He has fixated on balding, which is entirely within the normal range. He believes that this makes him ugly to women--when he is very handsome and attracts girls. I believe that mental illness distorts and motivates his thinking.

I want to say this. Your plan sounds like it can protect you. But what about your son? How good for him would it be if you have to call the cops to eject him? I have had to do this numerous times, with my son. It was traumatic for both of us. I have come to the belief that I do not have what it will require to help my son to deal with his life.

Only our sons can find this. It is a delicate balancing act to find the place of love, support, and encouragement, that is safe for each of us.

I am so very sorry you and he both are suffering.
 
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RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Praying for you and your son.

Very sorry that you are suffering as well. Life can be so hard at times with no end in sight.

Seriously praying for your peace as well as your son's.

:grouphugg:
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
He has had 2 surgeries to try to resolve with no success
Have you yourself spoken with doctors who specialize in the condition? (I don't need to know what it is--but there are so many ways now that physicians are helping men in this way, elderly and paralyzed and other impotent men, be functional sexually. Are you sure you have a realistic understanding of what's possible, that isn't filtered through your son's despair and hopelessness?)

If it's a question of impotency or infertility--there are many men in this camp, including in my own family, and there are solutions here, too.

What I am trying to say is that you need to know what is medically possible for your son, so that your own mindset is not distorted in the ways that his thinking is--which may be a product in part of his depression--over and above the reality of the medical condition. He is served (and you too), by clear-minded thinking. You don't help him with sympathy and guilt. I know it's hard. I struggle too.

I am trying to convey as others on this thread have too, that the more you can separate yourself from the problem, the better it might be for the both of you.

I hope I'm not harsh. I don't want to be. I want to support you.
 
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JayPee

Sending good vibes...
We all have to do what we think is best but sometimes we become a little delusional about the past. Our hearts soften, during our separation with them, because we so very much want the young boy, who ran in from playing outside, full of excitement and red-cheeked from running, to show up again. We sacrifice ourselves to the point of mental, emotional, physical and financial exhaustion. And guess what nothing changes.

My heart tells me you'd know if he changed from the tone and words he speaks to you.

Right now I'm going through this with younger 28 yr. old who suffers from mental illness, anxiety, PTSD and drinking, of late. He can't keep a job more than a day and the same ol' same ol' of coming to me for money because he's got this job and needs to just get through until he gets paid. The problem is, he doesn't last but a hot minute and I have started opening my wallet again. Why? The same reasons you want to open your home again to your son. It's OUR hope, OURS not there's that they get better. The only thing they want is a few more dollars to buy drinks or pot until they can sell us another sob story.

I feel like I'm being strangled but his inability to function again and all I know is if I had to deal with this 24/7 because I let him live with me, I would be back in therapy.

Please think hard and long about your decision to let him in. I don't think they do it on purpose but there is some level of manipulation they use and they pull us back on the merry-go-round until we're spinning so fast we can't see the money flying out of our wallets which they are using for drugs and alcohol!

Sorry to digress but my heart is heavy right now and I just hope you watch out for yourself.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
because he's got this job and needs to just get through until he gets paid.
My son does this too. Just tide him over until his SSI comes. That he's got an appointment at Mental Health or with the doctor, or some other "ticket to ride" BS that he thinks will open the door or our pockets. In our case, it's pure manipulation, a fantasy--I no longer buy-in from hope, but from guilt, fear, and a sense of defeat. I think this is almost worse.

This is to say we need to examine whether our motivations are to deal with deeply compromised feelings of our own, or from reality. We are NO LONGER the source of hope and life for our ADULT children. THEY ARE.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
Copa, you're right. If there's hope, it's just a sliver of it. The rest is fear, guilt and a sense of defeat. Worn down and worn out by this cycle that I am a part of.
 

Crayola13

Well-Known Member
DBT therapy and activities helped my son’s depression. He learned the importance of going to therapy from an early age. If he sits around watching TV or playing video games, it leads to a meltdown, so stays busy.
 

Zopdrop

New Member
Thank you for all your words of wisdom. It's so very hard to give up on him. Which is what I feel like I am doing. And he feels the same way. He's on another drunken binge and being extremely verbally abusive to me. He said that his Dad left him by dying and now I am leaving him by blocking him and not talking to him. I know deep down if I let him back into my home, my life would become way more stressful than it already is. But I keep going back to the thought that I have to put him before my own needs. Because he is my son. And I know he's hurting way more than I.

My son feels stigmatized and disfigured. He has fixated on balding, which is entirely within the normal range. He believes that this makes him ugly to women--when he is very handsome and attracts girls. I believe that mental illness distorts and motivates his thinking.
This is exactly what my son does. He fixates on something irrational and it consumes him until it either resolves itself, or he gets over it somehow. He has done this his whole life - although when young it wasn't about serious issues, but still happened. Right now he's fixated on never getting a girlfriend because he is "so disfigured". He can't see anyway out of it, no matter how much I try to show him small steps he can take.

Thanks for listening and giving me support. I wonder if it will ever end.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Hi

Reading along and can't help but think that his problems are from his alcohol abuse and nothing else. He's putting the cart before the horse by abusing alcohol. If he is impotent that certainly can be caused by alcohol.

My coworkers neighbor had a son that was an alcoholic. She let him live with her and he slept on her couch. She would not give him a bedroom because she wanted it to be temporary. He would lay there on the couch and drink in excess and throw up and lay in it and this went on for years. She bought a new couch.

What I'm saying is, by her trying to save him she enabled him to continue drinking and not facing his demons and turning his life around.

We cannot save our adult children from themselves. During my son's "rampage" I thought he could be mentally ill. I still think he has a touch of Asperger's but I don't know for sure.

Please see a therapist for yourself that deals with addition/alcoholism. You need to create firm but loving boundaries or this can go on forever.

It certainly helped me tremendously.

:staystrong:
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I had a bad fall and am out of it—but want to say this. I don’t recall if your son has adhd. There is a related vulnerability called something like rejection dysphoria. I am beginning to think my son has this. What you describe could fit.

Also. Self-sacrifice in itself won’t work I fear.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Thank you for all your words of wisdom. It's so very hard to give up on him. Which is what I feel like I am doing. And he feels the same way. He's on another drunken binge and being extremely verbally abusive to me. He said that his Dad left him by dying and now I am leaving him by blocking him and not talking to him. I know deep down if I let him back into my home, my life would become way more stressful than it already is. But I keep going back to the thought that I have to put him before my own needs. Because he is my son. And I know he's hurting way more than I.


This is exactly what my son does. He fixates on something irrational and it consumes him until it either resolves itself, or he gets over it somehow. He has done this his whole life - although when young it wasn't about serious issues, but still happened. Right now he's fixated on never getting a girlfriend because he is "so disfigured". He can't see anyway out of it, no matter how much I try to show him small steps he can take.

Thanks for listening and giving me support. I wonder if it will ever end.
It will end when you decide it has ended.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
Zopdrop,

Was re-reading your post and wanted to check in on you to see how you are doing. When I read your post I see that you are like me in some ways that you seem to "feel your sons feelings for him". Try to remember that you are not responsible for whether he is happy, sad, hurting etc. It's a hard thing for us mothers' to do but try it even for just a minute. Try to release how you imagine he's feeling over to him. You are not his savior, he has one just like you.
 

Zopdrop

New Member
Well, nothing has changed. He is blaming me for not 'saving' him by letting him come back home. I almost gave in and am still battling with myself. I want to help him by letting him come back home, but I know that really isn't helping him, and it would be far worse for me. He's been offered rehab but won't go because he doesn't think it will help. I know I just need to stay strong and stick to my boundaries but it is so hard.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
Sorry to hear that nothing has changed. I agree with Busy. No good will come from letting him come back home. You will have "maybe" a day or a few hours of feeling comfort in knowing he has a place to rest his head and food in his belly and that you know where he is. But I promise you it will get ugly. We're dealing with addicts whose primary motive is to either drink or drug and their minds are still warped from these addictions. When they don't get the $20 or more they're requesting, then they get verbally abusive and angry and all bets are off. You will feel like a prisoner in your home.

It's the acceptance of the situation that is so awfully hard for us. "We" want it to be different so bad that we keep going back to the insanity thinking something will change, but if we don't change, and they don't change, what on earth are we expecting?

I may have mentioned the serenity prayer before but I pray it quite often....

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can (in me!), and the wisdom to know the difference."

Remember...we can't change them, but we can change or ebb the pain of constantly worrying, obsessing and focusing our every thought on what they are doing, where they are, etc.

They are the only one's who can make the changes within themselves. They have to want it as badly as we do.
 
Jay Pee said: " Sorry to hear that nothing has changed. I agree with Busy. No good will come from letting him come back home. You will have "maybe" a day or a few hours of feeling comfort in knowing he has a place to rest his head and food in his belly and that you know where he is. But I promise you it will get ugly...they get verbally abusive and angry and all bets are off. You will feel like a prisoner in your home."
This (apart from the addiction) is the situation we have had twice with our son in the last 3 years. If they have Borderline or NPD the behaviours are the same, I dread to think what addiction on top of this would be like!
Please continue to reach out for support here. You need to be strong, I know how hard it is to hold out against the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt and give in. It's against everything we are taught by stories and family narratives. But you need to have safety and peace, and if your son isn't willing to fight, you must show you are stronger than him. I am determined to fight and stand up for myself even though I have always been known as a softy and a pushover to all who know me. My mother was a strong woman, and fought all her life to overcome war, refugee status, four kids, divorce, mental breakdown, you name it, with no family support. I'm going to remember her and fight back for my and my husband's health (he has a blood disorder which may become cancer and is made worse by stress) and my son's mental health too. Prayers to all xx:notalone::staystrong:
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
It's so very hard to give up on him. Which is what I feel like I am doing. And he feels the same way.
This top quote is from a ways back. I want to challenge it. I see letting somebody have responsibility for their own life, and the space for coming to terms with it, as a gift, as deeply respectful, as the highest spiritual mandate. The bible says right up front--go out into the world, pick a mate, and build a family (in so many words). What this means is: leave your parents and deal with your own life and deal with your own problems and comes to grips with things. Our kids are not the first young people who've faced barriers and hurdles. This is the human condition.

Your hope for him is yours to have. Hope is an attitude, an outlook, a way of life. It's not "do this for me, or I'll die." Hope is not a transaction. (As in, the only way to have hope is to do everything he wants. You are not giving up on him, by allowing him to face the consequences of his actions and his choices. On the contrary. It is the highest essence of hope to believe in somebody and in life, enough, to believe the right thing can happen, that a person has it in them, the capacity to reach higher.

Hope is not tit for tat. Hope is our right to feel, to have, to hold. I can hold hope for my child whether or not he feels it for himself. It's unconditional and non-contingent. Hope is not barter. Hope is not a guilt trip. Hope is not having control over another person. It's not like a slot machine. Hope is a prayer. We can pray for our children. It doesn't mean we have to surrender our lives and souls. And it does not mean we have to do it all, or sacrifice our well-being.
He's been offered rehab but won't go because he doesn't think it will help.
Now I find this infuriating. This is a choice. This is his choice. He chose to not go to rehab. It is really disordered thinking that is probably related to his desire to drink, and maybe to a lesser extent, depression. He is preferring to drown himself in drink and self-pity to facing reality and changing. But, at the end of the day, he's responsible. Not you.

Why? Because it's his life and only he can deal with his life. You can't. I can't deal with my own son''s life. I've tried and tried and tried and tried. It.does.not.work.

But you didn't cause this. You're not responsible to fix it. Because you can't fix it. He must. My son must.. Every.single.day thousands and thousands of people go to AA and they put into motion a process by which they change their disordered thinking and behavior.

I hope I don't sound harsh. I don't mean to be. The thing is, the problem is a lot about us. We need to let go.
 
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MissLulu

Well-Known Member
The challenge is that for us, as parents, we see the letting go as giving up, as letting go of love. But it truly isn’t. Do you love your son any less? I know the answer.

We love our children deeply and sometimes our love for them blinds us to what they truly need. We give and give and give, thinking this one last time will be the thing that changes them, that makes a difference. But it never does. In the end it is their choice. Your son’s destiny is in his own hands. Rest assured you are doing the best thing not just for yourself but for him too.
 
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