I need support

YogiLori

Member
My son is 19. He is smart, athletic, handsome, has many friends and lives in a beautiful neighborhood. Im a yoga instructor and my husband is a middle school math teacher at the middle school my son went too. I had kids late 38 and 39. I worked in a career and left my career to be a stay at home mom. My second son has Down Syndrome. First son has had amazing athletic ability. Never liked to practice and it was always an argument. Everything was an argument, studying, practicing, going to family functions, following curfew - ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. He started using marijuana in 8th grade. He would sneak, we caught him. In high school he made state in track, swimming and football as a freshman but he argued with coaches, teaches and us. He eventually got kicked off swimming and quit football. Whatever, we did not expect him to play - the coaches wanted him on the teams. He is also very smart but stopped trying freshman year in high school even though he did make national honor society 4 straight years. Sophmore year he snuck out with some boys and got into a car accident. He was pretty scratched up. The police brought him home at 3am. We grounded him, took his phone - had consequences. None of the other boys had consequences so my son was ANGRY. The next year he was smoking marijuana in his room - we called the police to scare him - it didnt phase him. He kept bringing drugs into our home and car - when that was basically our only rule (its illegal in our state). Then one day a teacher called and said he was high at school and disrespectful. We tried to ground him but he ran away for a night. We had no idea where he was. He came home the next day crying. We moved on. Then Junior year he wasn't getting what he wanted so he said he was going to jump off a building and kill himself. The police found him getting high with a friend and put him in the locked mental health unit for evaluation. He stayed there 5 days and they said he had anxiety due to excessive marijuana use. He was ordered to go to outpatient therapy. I haven't mentioned that everyday he was high, he would not go to work, treated us disrespectfully about EVERYTHING. He brought constant tension into the house. There was no remorse for any of the horrible things he said to us daily. Next year he came home so high he was slurring - it was different. When he went to school I searched his room and found opiods and more marijuana. When we talked about it when he got home he assaulted my husband and I. Threw a punch at me and wrestled with his father - tore the door off and threw a huge heater at us. We called the police and he was taken away back to the mental health unit. He told the ER nurse he was going to stab my husband with a kitchen knife when he got home. Once again, after an evaluation they said Oppositional Defiance Disorder due to excessive marijuana use. He was put on probation and drug tested every month. He was clean and was actually a pretty nice kid - still disrespectful but better. We overheard him bragging to his friend about assaulting us. As soon as he was off probation he started using again and drinking cause he was pledging a fraternity. The college is 3 miles from our house. He got in and was drinking quite a bit. He was a lifeguard but went to work and quite honestly we could not wait for him to leave for college. We were hoping for a fresh start. Well he pretty much failed college, got kicked out of the fraternity. He was partying constantly. He begged us to live at home second semester WITH A FRIEND WHO ALSO GOT KICKED OUT and we said yes if you follow the rules which of course he did not. It was so hard having a stranger in the house and my son would basically stay up all night and sleep all day and ASK US TO HELP WITH HIS COLLEGE HOMEWORK. Finally May 2022 the friend moved home and my son and his girlfriend of 3 years broke up with him due to his verbal abuse and just :censored2: behavior. He went out and got a DUI - evading police, minor in possession, fake ID, and speeding, and reckless driving. Police woke us up again at 1 am but this time he went to jail. Adult jail for a night. We decided we were done. We told him he had to leave. He has no car till 12/22, we are not paying for college, he can figure out where to go - WE WERE DONE. He left to stay with a friend - I cried for 6 weeks. We had to stop enabling him. We gave him everything and all he does is party. So a week ago, his friend went back to college, all the friends did but him. He asked us to move back in so he can figure it out and we said NO. Our house has been peaceful. He has put the guilt trip on and said "you cannot even help your son?" Ive been a wreck again. He rode his bike to lifeguarding but now the pool is closed and he is literally sleeping in his friends room ALL DAY LONG. He has no car and said he wanted me to help him find an apartment and he would help around the house if we let him move back in for 6 weeks. He has never helped around the house - we said no. 4 years of this crap and he still tells us he doesnt believe in stuff we believe - hes opposite of us. We want him to be happy and treat others nicely. Neither one is happening. Please tell me we are doing the right thing!
 

Nandina

Member
Hi YogiLori and welcome. Sorry you have to be here but you are in the right place for getting support and understanding. It is SO HARD but yes, I believe you have done the right thing by not allowing your son back into your home.

Your story sounds almost identical to mine as far as the behavior, disrespect, drug use, only my son never had the desire to go to college and left home while he was a senior in high school. He just couldn’t stand trying to abide by our rules. We have not let him back in since then. He is now 21.

We finally have peace in our home, have patched all the doors and walls he smashed, and completely remade his former bedroom into a nice guest room. He has at times been homeless on the streets and seems to embrace that lifestyle because he can get high whenever he wants and party all the time. He currently lives in another state with his birth family, (from whose home he was removed at age 2), not the best option because they are a drug using bunch and in my opinion, lack basic intelligence and common sense. But he seems to fit in with them.

He recently spent time in jail for a felony he committed under the influence of meth, and he is now on probation for three years. After he failed drug treatment three times we have decided to disengage from him for awhile. We have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours of working to help him only to have him get kicked out of every treatment place for just being disagreeable and never making any effort to work the program.

We know we have done the right thing for us. We couldn’t continue to live with the threats, violence, drug use, disrespect and just total chaos that he brought to our home. We deserve to live a life with peace and dignity.

The hard part is just being consistent and sticking to it. It hurts. You feel guilty. You think that this thing or that thing will help them but until they decide to change, nothing will. We’re tired of wasting time and money on someone who doesn’t appreciate a damn thing we have done for him. Maybe someday he will, but that time has not arrived yet, so in the meantime, I will work on myself, trying to find some semblance of happiness even as my son is breaking my heart. I too, cried for many weeks but it does get easier as time goes on.

It helps so much to have the support of this forum. Many members here recommend Al anon and other organizations that provide support for parents of kids like ours. Therapy helps as well. Just keep telling yourself that what you have done for your son has not helped him and that you deserve to live a life with peace and dignity. These kids steal that from us and I won’t let it happen anymore. I love my son, but I also love him enough to let him live the consequences of his (poor) choices and perhaps experience some growth along the way. It certainly wasn’t happening with our “help.”

I hope you’ll continue to post here. It really helps. We get it. No judgment, just support and understanding. Do things for yourself that bring you peace and comfort. Music, meditation, taking long walks, reading a good book, whatever lifts your spirit. And get rid of guilt. It’s hard but you can do it. Many of us have. And yes, we all have occasional moments of sadness or guilt but we don’t let them control us. Let them pass and move on. It gets easier with time.

Hugs to you.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Hi there. Hugs. We ALL have adult kids like your son who abuse us and my daughter also liked to near miss throw dangerous items at us.

When she almost hit my son with a glass vase we decided she can't come back. No way. But we enabled her for ten years, which only made her more entitled and meaner. She did not seek out help. She did not benefit from our giving her a free pass for her domestic abuse of us, which is what their behavior is. There us no excuse for their abuse even if it's caused by mental illness or substance abuse. There is the option of getting help/getting clean. They just don't want to do it and we can't make them. We normally would mot accept this behavior from a spouse (although some actually do not leave abusive spouses). We learn to see chaos as the norm and we also allow our sick adult children to guilt us into compliance of their demands. "You crappy mother" is powerful although it's not true. They learn to use it. And we bring them home where things almost always get worse and buy them stuff and hand out money. in my opinion we need to get the picture of them as small children out of our heads. They are adults. They do not need mommies. I took down every child picture of Kay to remember she is in her 30s.

We have learned to let go. I think its easier to do if your faith in a higher power is strong. Mine is. I told myself that God is more powerful than me....I gave Kay to God. He can oversee her better than me. I have neglected my other loved ones and myself for long enough. I won't do it anymore. Kay is no better even after all our "help." If she ever gets healthy it will be because she decided to get healthy, not because of myself and putting up with her inappropriate behavior. I like the peace that the rest of us in the family now share.

I highly recommend Nar Anon. We have Zoom meetings now...you can find them on the internet. Therapy is good too.

Prayers and love sent.
 

YogiLori

Member
Hi YogiLori and welcome. Sorry you have to be here but you are in the right place for getting support and understanding. It is SO HARD but yes, I believe you have done the right thing by not allowing your son back into your home.

Your story sounds almost identical to mine as far as the behavior, disrespect, drug use, only my son never had the desire to go to college and left home while he was a senior in high school. He just couldn’t stand trying to abide by our rules. We have not let him back in since then. He is now 21.

We finally have peace in our home, have patched all the doors and walls he smashed, and completely remade his former bedroom into a nice guest room. He has at times been homeless on the streets and seems to embrace that lifestyle because he can get high whenever he wants and party all the time. He currently lives in another state with his birth family, (from whose home he was removed at age 2), not the best option because they are a drug using bunch and in my opinion, lack basic intelligence and common sense. But he seems to fit in with them.

He recently spent time in jail for a felony he committed under the influence of meth, and he is now on probation for three years. After he failed drug treatment three times we have decided to disengage from him for awhile. We have wasted thousands of dollars and countless hours of working to help him only to have him get kicked out of every treatment place for just being disagreeable and never making any effort to work the program.

We know we have done the right thing for us. We couldn’t continue to live with the threats, violence, drug use, disrespect and just total chaos that he brought to our home. We deserve to live a life with peace and dignity.

The hard part is just being consistent and sticking to it. It hurts. You feel guilty. You think that this thing or that thing will help them but until they decide to change, nothing will. We’re tired of wasting time and money on someone who doesn’t appreciate a damn thing we have done for him. Maybe someday he will, but that time has not arrived yet, so in the meantime, I will work on myself, trying to find some semblance of happiness even as my son is breaking my heart. I too, cried for many weeks but it does get easier as time goes on.

It helps so much to have the support of this forum. Many members here recommend Al anon and other organizations that provide support for parents of kids like ours. Therapy helps as well. Just keep telling yourself that what you have done for your son has not helped him and that you deserve to live a life with peace and dignity. These kids steal that from us and I won’t let it happen anymore. I love my son, but I also love him enough to let him live the consequences of his (poor) choices and perhaps experience some growth along the way. It certainly wasn’t happening with our “help.”

I hope you’ll continue to post here. It really helps. We get it. No judgment, just support and understanding. Do things for yourself that bring you peace and comfort. Music, meditation, taking long walks, reading a good book, whatever lifts your spirit. And get rid of guilt. It’s hard but you can do it. Many of us have. And yes, we all have occasional moments of sadness or guilt but we don’t let them control us. Let them pass and move on. It gets easier with time.

Hugs to you.
Thank you so very much. This morning I am still crying and it is just so incredibly hard to detach. I've been going to therapy every week and it helps. My husband is able to let it go and trust but I come from a very dysfunctional family that I have mostly healed from - this just triggers all of it. And I keep asking why? Why is he so angry and rebellious and entitled. And, how am I ever going to be able to live my life. Thank you for expressing that I can eventually. I read the irrational detachment thinking points and I am all of them. You love your kid so much but the lying, manipulations, drugs just never cease. I don't understand why I have to have to go through this. But you do/did too and all of the wonderful people on this forum have. I feel so lucky to have found this because I am really needy in my hopelessness. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for replying.....
 

YogiLori

Member
Hi there. Hugs. We ALL have adult kids like your son who abuse us and my daughter also liked to near miss throw dangerous items at us.

When she almost hit my son with a glass vase we decided she can't come back. No way. But we enabled her for ten years, which only made her more entitled and meaner. She did not seek out help. She did not benefit from our giving her a free pass for her domestic abuse of us, which is what their behavior is. There us no excuse for their abuse even if it's caused by mental illness or substance abuse. There is the option of getting help/getting clean. They just don't want to do it and we can't make them. We normally would mot accept this behavior from a spouse (although some actually do not leave abusive spouses). We learn to see chaos as the norm and we also allow our sick adult children to guilt us into compliance of their demands. "You crappy mother" is powerful although it's not true. They learn to use it. And we bring them home where things almost always get worse and buy them stuff and hand out money. in my opinion we need to get the picture of them as small children out of our heads. They are adults. They do not need mommies. I took down every child picture of Kay to remember she is in her 30s.

We have learned to let go. I think its easier to do if your faith in a higher power is strong. Mine is. I told myself that God is more powerful than me....I gave Kay to God. He can oversee her better than me. I have neglected my other loved ones and myself for long enough. I won't do it anymore. Kay is no better even after all our "help." If she ever gets healthy it will be because she decided to get healthy, not because of myself and putting up with her inappropriate behavior. I like the peace that the rest of us in the family now share.

I highly recommend Nar Anon. We have Zoom meetings now...you can find them on the internet. Therapy is good too.

Prayers and love sent.
Thank you so very much. Things have gotten so bad since 2019 - and we kept giving, hoping, tolerating his mean words and behavior. He tells me I am too sensitive, a horrible mother, a wimp for crying about the abuse my parents put on me. You are so right, it is domestic abuse. I was feeling SO HOPELESS this morning. Your message helps me - you are right, they can get clean if they want - he does not want too - "its his lifestyle." His verbal abuse is destructive and our family and our relationships have suffered. My son has Down Syndrome and is a tender loving soul.....he has seen so much trauma and still loves his brother. My husband and I have had to go to marriage counseling because I cannot detach. Thank you for your empowering reply, because I am feeling a little better. Nobody can make him change except for him - NOBODY. I need to be stronger but feel more comfortable in the weak position. I am seeing this now. I am going to Nar Anon. Is there a time you recommend? I live in the midwest and all the times confuse me. I am also not a techy and so much of life is on line. I really need support and I will learn!! Thank you so so much for sharing and for replying to me. It is in God's hands and I will be at peace with whatever happens.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Yogi, your post was so interesting to me. Just yesterday, during our NarAnon meeting, we were talking about "why does he/she do it?"

All of is who shared about that said, not verbatim, "I used to obsess about why too...yet I learned that it doesn't matter why. It happened. It is."

My Nar Anon share about the topic was "I will never know why. I don't think Kay even knows. So why it happened has lost all meaning to me. It is what it is. That's all."

Addiction is a disease. If somebody is genetically predisposed to addiction, then he or she will become addicted if he/she tries anything from beer to pot. The disease is a physical and psychological and spiritual one and it affects every part of ther lives. But it is NOT about us. We overrate our part in this illness. And we sometimes think that their unwillingness to get help is a personal affront to us. Again, it is not about us. In Nar Anon we say "I didn't CAUSE it, I can't CONTROL it and I can't CURE it." We call that the three Cs.

There is nothing to be gained by trying to figure out what you will never know. I practice acceptance in all my affairs now and keep my mind quiet. I don't have to like what is, but I accept reality. It's easy for me to do that these days since I have learned so many great tools. Things I used to do, like sticking my nose in my daughter's life all the time, excusing abuse, feeling guilty when my daughter manipulated me...that person does not exist anymore. She is gone.It took therapy and my program, but my entire life seems to be....serene. Like our adult kids, we are sick from their disease and we either get serious help for ourselves or we will stay sick too. Sick, miserable, and living our child's life...with no identity of our own. I was there. I worked hard to get to where I am. It was worth it.

You know how impossible you (I mean a generic you) think it is to let go of your child's chaos? How hard you all feel it is to let go? Well, that is how our addicted kids feel about living life without drugs. So often the whole family resists help for our problems, including us. We in my humble opinion are much healthier if we stop our addiction to thinking about and worrying about our addict 24/7. They can do better only if they try very very hard. Same with us. We can do better too but we have to work hard and seek help.

I don't know if this helped. I am passionate about all this and maybe I rambled. Sorry if I did.

Sending hugs and love. "We can only change one person...our own self."
 

brokeninside

New Member
My son is 19. He is smart, athletic, handsome, has many friends and lives in a beautiful neighborhood. Im a yoga instructor and my husband is a middle school math teacher at the middle school my son went too. I had kids late 38 and 39. I worked in a career and left my career to be a stay at home mom. My second son has Down Syndrome. First son has had amazing athletic ability. Never liked to practice and it was always an argument. Everything was an argument, studying, practicing, going to family functions, following curfew - ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. He started using marijuana in 8th grade. He would sneak, we caught him. In high school he made state in track, swimming and football as a freshman but he argued with coaches, teaches and us. He eventually got kicked off swimming and quit football. Whatever, we did not expect him to play - the coaches wanted him on the teams. He is also very smart but stopped trying freshman year in high school even though he did make national honor society 4 straight years. Sophmore year he snuck out with some boys and got into a car accident. He was pretty scratched up. The police brought him home at 3am. We grounded him, took his phone - had consequences. None of the other boys had consequences so my son was ANGRY. The next year he was smoking marijuana in his room - we called the police to scare him - it didnt phase him. He kept bringing drugs into our home and car - when that was basically our only rule (its illegal in our state). Then one day a teacher called and said he was high at school and disrespectful. We tried to ground him but he ran away for a night. We had no idea where he was. He came home the next day crying. We moved on. Then Junior year he wasn't getting what he wanted so he said he was going to jump off a building and kill himself. The police found him getting high with a friend and put him in the locked mental health unit for evaluation. He stayed there 5 days and they said he had anxiety due to excessive marijuana use. He was ordered to go to outpatient therapy. I haven't mentioned that everyday he was high, he would not go to work, treated us disrespectfully about EVERYTHING. He brought constant tension into the house. There was no remorse for any of the horrible things he said to us daily. Next year he came home so high he was slurring - it was different. When he went to school I searched his room and found opiods and more marijuana. When we talked about it when he got home he assaulted my husband and I. Threw a punch at me and wrestled with his father - tore the door off and threw a huge heater at us. We called the police and he was taken away back to the mental health unit. He told the ER nurse he was going to stab my husband with a kitchen knife when he got home. Once again, after an evaluation they said Oppositional Defiance Disorder due to excessive marijuana use. He was put on probation and drug tested every month. He was clean and was actually a pretty nice kid - still disrespectful but better. We overheard him bragging to his friend about assaulting us. As soon as he was off probation he started using again and drinking cause he was pledging a fraternity. The college is 3 miles from our house. He got in and was drinking quite a bit. He was a lifeguard but went to work and quite honestly we could not wait for him to leave for college. We were hoping for a fresh start. Well he pretty much failed college, got kicked out of the fraternity. He was partying constantly. He begged us to live at home second semester WITH A FRIEND WHO ALSO GOT KICKED OUT and we said yes if you follow the rules which of course he did not. It was so hard having a stranger in the house and my son would basically stay up all night and sleep all day and ASK US TO HELP WITH HIS COLLEGE HOMEWORK. Finally May 2022 the friend moved home and my son and his girlfriend of 3 years broke up with him due to his verbal abuse and just :censored2: behavior. He went out and got a DUI - evading police, minor in possession, fake ID, and speeding, and reckless driving. Police woke us up again at 1 am but this time he went to jail. Adult jail for a night. We decided we were done. We told him he had to leave. He has no car till 12/22, we are not paying for college, he can figure out where to go - WE WERE DONE. He left to stay with a friend - I cried for 6 weeks. We had to stop enabling him. We gave him everything and all he does is party. So a week ago, his friend went back to college, all the friends did but him. He asked us to move back in so he can figure it out and we said NO. Our house has been peaceful. He has put the guilt trip on and said "you cannot even help your son?" Ive been a wreck again. He rode his bike to lifeguarding but now the pool is closed and he is literally sleeping in his friends room ALL DAY LONG. He has no car and said he wanted me to help him find an apartment and he would help around the house if we let him move back in for 6 weeks. He has never helped around the house - we said no. 4 years of this crap and he still tells us he doesnt believe in stuff we believe - hes opposite of us. We want him to be happy and treat others nicely. Neither one is happening. Please tell me we are doing the right thing!
Yogilori,

My heart goes out to you….you are being incredibly strong and, even though it goes against your maternal nature, are doing everything that you should be doing. When our children hurt, moms feel physical pain. You are also dealing with grief right now- your hopes and dreams for your son are on hold and they aren’t going to look like you imagined for him right now. I know how you feel as I am experiencing the same thing with my son. And, I’m frustrated bc he has the ability. Then when he is sober, he acts like his normal self and i want to help him and protect him. So many people have given my son a lifeline and he just keeps his entitlement attitude and seems to not be able to see into the future. And then the moms suffer - mentally and physically. His actions are not your fault. I tell myself that my son is letting himself drown he’s pulling me under with him and I cant let myself be pulled under with him. I know how you feel when you say that you feel like you can’t live life and be happy when this is happening. We only have one life and we can’t continue putting our lives on hold until they stop their madness. Time will run out for us. They don’t seem to care that they hurt us and that makes it hurt even more. It sounds like you have a good handle on things but you are overwhelmed right now bc the college semester is starting and he is not where he should be. For me, it is hard to see my friends kids doing the “normal” things kids his age should be doing. It is ok to grieve and cry and let it out. I think it is healthy to do so. You are going to counseling and meditating so you aren’t hiding from these issues. You got this and there are brighter days ahead. You are strong and you are taking the steps that you need to do. Just take each day at a time - day by day - and be kind to yourself. You deserve kindness ❤️
 

YogiLori

Member
Yogilori,

My heart goes out to you….you are being incredibly strong and, even though it goes against your maternal nature, are doing everything that you should be doing. When our children hurt, moms feel physical pain. You are also dealing with grief right now- your hopes and dreams for your son are on hold and they aren’t going to look like you imagined for him right now. I know how you feel as I am experiencing the same thing with my son. And, I’m frustrated bc he has the ability. Then when he is sober, he acts like his normal self and i want to help him and protect him. So many people have given my son a lifeline and he just keeps his entitlement attitude and seems to not be able to see into the future. And then the moms suffer - mentally and physically. His actions are not your fault. I tell myself that my son is letting himself drown he’s pulling me under with him and I cant let myself be pulled under with him. I know how you feel when you say that you feel like you can’t live life and be happy when this is happening. We only have one life and we can’t continue putting our lives on hold until they stop their madness. Time will run out for us. They don’t seem to care that they hurt us and that makes it hurt even more. It sounds like you have a good handle on things but you are overwhelmed right now bc the college semester is starting and he is not where he should be. For me, it is hard to see my friends kids doing the “normal” things kids his age should be doing. It is ok to grieve and cry and let it out. I think it is healthy to do so. You are going to counseling and meditating so you aren’t hiding from these issues. You got this and there are brighter days ahead. You are strong and you are taking the steps that you need to do. Just take each day at a time - day by day - and be kind to yourself. You deserve kindness ❤️
Thank you so much. Your message, I felt it directly in my heart. It does cause physical pain and mental and emotional preoccupation. Every minute I have my son on the brain. What is he doing? How will he figure it out? I can 100% say we have been patient, completely generous with all the resources, tolerated him being high most of the time, warning him of driving under the influence.....nothing matters. I woke up this morning and did have a slight feeling of letting go. I remember when he assaulted us. It was crazy and unbelievable. It was at that time I began the letting go. In our state kids are minors until 19 so we had to be responsible for him for another year and a half. I truly thought in college he would figure it out. He doesn't want to get better. He does not want to see how awful he has treated everyone in his life. We have suffered. He can fake being nice to us for about 30 minutes to an hour when he is manipulating or asking us for something. Now that I have this space.....I see how I have jumped through hoops, been the recipient of his abuse, and he has gotten in between my husband and me so many times. UGH - this part of motherhood is very difficult. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me. Your title, brokeninside - that is how I feel. You want everything for your kids and when they are addicted, mean, and unmotivated - it is very scary. I bought the NarAnon books and I will join and do the work. I must let go and keep letting go over and over again. I am so grateful I found this website - I have never heard about it and I thank you for responding. I wish a group of us could get together and meet and talk and support in person. This is the next best thing! I wish the best for your son. I do understand the entitlement attitude. My son has that 2000%. He will actually say I am going to be a millionaire and not work very hard (omg) I will keep taking one day at a time. Blessings ❤️
 

YogiLori

Member
Yogi, your post was so interesting to me. Just yesterday, during our NarAnon meeting, we were talking about "why does he/she do it?"

All of is who shared about that said, not verbatim, "I used to obsess about why too...yet I learned that it doesn't matter why. It happened. It is."

My Nar Anon share about the topic was "I will never know why. I don't think Kay even knows. So why it happened has lost all meaning to me. It is what it is. That's all."

Addiction is a disease. If somebody is genetically predisposed to addiction, then he or she will become addicted if he/she tries anything from beer to pot. The disease is a physical and psychological and spiritual one and it affects every part of ther lives. But it is NOT about us. We overrate our part in this illness. And we sometimes think that their unwillingness to get help is a personal affront to us. Again, it is not about us. In Nar Anon we say "I didn't CAUSE it, I can't CONTROL it and I can't CURE it." We call that the three Cs.

There is nothing to be gained by trying to figure out what you will never know. I practice acceptance in all my affairs now and keep my mind quiet. I don't have to like what is, but I accept reality. It's easy for me to do that these days since I have learned so many great tools. Things I used to do, like sticking my nose in my daughter's life all the time, excusing abuse, feeling guilty when my daughter manipulated me...that person does not exist anymore. She is gone.It took therapy and my program, but my entire life seems to be....serene. Like our adult kids, we are sick from their disease and we either get serious help for ourselves or we will stay sick too. Sick, miserable, and living our child's life...with no identity of our own. I was there. I worked hard to get to where I am. It was worth it.

You know how impossible you (I mean a generic you) think it is to let go of your child's chaos? How hard you all feel it is to let go? Well, that is how our addicted kids feel about living life without drugs. So often the whole family resists help for our problems, including us. We in my humble opinion are much healthier if we stop our addiction to thinking about and worrying about our addict 24/7. They can do better only if they try very very hard. Same with us. We can do better too but we have to work hard and seek help.

I don't know if this helped. I am passionate about all this and maybe I rambled. Sorry if I did.

Sending hugs and love. "We can only change one person...our own self."
Thank you so much for responding to me❤️ You are SO RIGHT about me asking why. I do it all the time and it is my biggest hurdle. Accepting what is is also my biggest hurdle. I am the helper, the giver, and his mom. What I have realized since saying no to coming back is I have never done this before. I think when we initially told him to leave he really thought we would let him back in after the summer....... I think about my own life - and so many other teens life - we all make our way and do what we have to do. He has not "had" to do it but hopefully now he will realize nobody is going to do it for him. Unconditional love does not mean unconditional acceptance of bad behavior. It has been bad and until we really say NO, he will not be forced to figure it out. And the other important point you made is my addiction to helping my son! YES you are so right about this. He has told me he is NEVER quitting because this is his lifestyle. Well, we don't have to live with his lifestyle anymore and it is eerily quiet. My husband and other son can do what we want to do without the other son's chaos - it was chaos all the time and I felt so resentful for the last 2 years. It was SO HARD for him to accept no for an answer, I just did stuff that he asked so I didn't have to deal with his reaction and attitude. My husband gets really tired of talking about this over and over again. He is able to completely let go and go about his life. I do keep bringing it up, and needing support to reframe my thoughts. So I sooooooo appreciate your insight and I really do need to read it over and over again.
I am so proud that you have done the work and you keep doing the work by helping newbies like me.......I will help others too when I finally get to a place of peace around this❤️
 

Nandina

Member
YogiLori, you have done all the right things—you have refused at last to put up with your son’s chaos and disrespect. You have sought dignity and peace in your home. On the practical side you are able to see that you don’t deserve this and will no longer tolerate it.

But on the mom’s loving heart side, let’s face it—it does not feel natural to boot your kid out of the house when you know they’re not ready to live on their own. But should you put up with abuse in the meantime? Of course not.

It is so hard, especially at first, because you are grieving the loss of the son you had, or thought you had, and love so much. All the expectations you had for him or perhaps plans he had for himself are gone at least for now.

When I went through it three years ago, it felt like grieving a death in the family. For several weeks I didn’t participate in activities with the family or anyone, I was so depressed. I cried all the time, still do occasionally, but it passes. At that time I didn’t know about this website, so had no support and truly felt alone. I even had a friend (not a mother) ask me why was I crying, my son was a lot of trouble, wasn’t he? (then I “went off” on her!)

Most of us here are mothers, and we get it. We know how hard it is to detach—probably the hardest thing many of us have ever had to do—but you can get through this and come out the other side, whole and with your self-respect intact. You can experience happiness or moments of joy even though your son is not living the life you would have wanted for him. And he could still change. Your son is very young and has some growing up to do.

It will take time, but keep reading and using the tools you have acquired so far, continue to post here, pray, meditate or whatever helps you get through the day. Just like with other forms of grief, it gets easier with time.

And in the meantime, you have insisted that your son treat you with respect if there is to be a relationship with him. It will be up to him to follow through on that. Change is hard for these kids, especially when the pull of drugs is so strong, but I hope you won’t back down. Stay strong. You are doing everything right.

Sending love and hugs.
 

YogiLori

Member
YogiLori, you have done all the right things—you have refused at last to put up with your son’s chaos and disrespect. You have sought dignity and peace in your home. On the practical side you are able to see that you don’t deserve this and will no longer tolerate it.

But on the mom’s loving heart side, let’s face it—it does not feel natural to boot your kid out of the house when you know they’re not ready to live on their own. But should you put up with abuse in the meantime? Of course not.

It is so hard, especially at first, because you are grieving the loss of the son you had, or thought you had, and love so much. All the expectations you had for him or perhaps plans he had for himself are gone at least for now.

When I went through it three years ago, it felt like grieving a death in the family. For several weeks I didn’t participate in activities with the family or anyone, I was so depressed. I cried all the time, still do occasionally, but it passes. At that time I didn’t know about this website, so had no support and truly felt alone. I even had a friend (not a mother) ask me why was I crying, my son was a lot of trouble, wasn’t he? (then I “went off” on her!)

Most of us here are mothers, and we get it. We know how hard it is to detach—probably the hardest thing many of us have ever had to do—but you can get through this and come out the other side, whole and with your self-respect intact. You can experience happiness or moments of joy even though your son is not living the life you would have wanted for him. And he could still change. Your son is very young and has some growing up to do.

It will take time, but keep reading and using the tools you have acquired so far, continue to post here, pray, meditate or whatever helps you get through the day. Just like with other forms of grief, it gets easier with time.

And in the meantime, you have insisted that your son treat you with respect if there is to be a relationship with him. It will be up to him to follow through on that. Change is hard for these kids, especially when the pull of drugs is so strong, but I hope you won’t back down. Stay strong. You are doing everything right.

Sending love and hugs.
❤️ ❤️❤️ Nandina - thank you so much. Earlier today I felt so strong and as the day went on, that sinking feeling came upon me. Like omg, how will he figure it out! I am sure he is so hurt that we would not allow him to come back for 6 weeks. I keep thinking of that and get sooo down. And you are so right, I cried for the entire month of June and most of July everyday. I isolated and spoke to my husband but he gets so tired of saying the same things. My mother in law helps alot and I just really wanted to speak to parents who knew what I was going through. I opened my computer and there was your message. Thank you. It is SO HARD to detach. And my son is so strong willed - I have never seen anything like it. And, he wants me/us to know we hurt him. It's a dynamic that I have played into and it is so dysfunctional. I keep thinking he will starve, or die of loneliness, or die because we wouldn't help him. But, he does not want the help we offer - in fact - he insults us like we don't know anything. Over the summer he was a lifeguard but he also had about 3 lawns he mowed in which he made $100/week. After we asked him to leave he stopped mowing. The people would call my husband because my son would not answer his phone. Nathan would say he'd do it and never follow through so my husband would have to do it. This happened all summer!! My son said, "I'll mow on my time, not theirs." This was beyond frustrating. He could have made more $ but it caused friction between us and him and with our neighbors!!! Our son never remembers these things probably because he's high. Earlier before his DUI, he brought some girl over and she slept over! He didn't ask, he assumed we would be okay with it. Then we spoke to him about it and it was a terrible yelling match. He just does not understand and when we try and explain our rules - curfew, no drugs, you must work........he just sleeps the day away and asks me to make him lunch at 3:00pm! Despite his lazy unmotivated behavior, it is hard to detach and I worry he will never speak to me again........ I thank you so much for writing to me. It means so much and it is exactly what keeps me strong! I feel better again. Love and hugs to you!!!
 

Nandina

Member
I don’t necessarily believe your son will never speak to you again. Sometimes demanding respect from them and making them a little uncomfortable by not enabling their abusive behavior sets them in the right direction, at least on how to behave around you. You can’t make him stop doing drugs or make him get a job and work. He’ll do that when things get tough enough for him and he finds out no one is going to give him a free ride. But he has to “feel” it, and he won’t as long as someone is stepping in to help when it gets difficult for him.

I will let you in on something…I have three children, two older than the child that brought me here. None of them has been a picnic (lol) but far easier than the third! No drugs, thank goodness, but the teenage disrespect and attitude, etc. was there and my daughter, the oldest, now 34, was very hard to manage though she was never a problem in school so at least that part was easy. But she was very oppositional and argumentative her entire life. (Still is, actually)

The other son (now 31) was always in sports in high school and was never a problem until he flunked out of college and became depressed, moved back home, wouldn’t get a job, etc. His behavior was such that we eventually had to ask him to leave. Daughter once asked us if she could spend the night at her boyfriend’s house, we said no way, and she decided to do it anyway. We told her if she did, she couldn’t come back. (this was the summer before college). Well, we stuck to our guns. We took the car back, she had to buy one. And she ended up having to live at that boyfriend’s mother’s house for the rest of the summer. Perhaps we went overboard, but she learned not to disrespect our rules.

it didn’t take long for each of them to get it right and come back around and daughter actually apologized for her behavior growing up after she began working in a home for wayward teenage girls! She realized some of what she had put us through, lol. You know what they say…what goes around comes around…

Today, we have a great relationship with both kids. Even the youngest, who brought me here has continued a loving relationship with us although right now I am keeping a distance just because he has taken advantage of our help and not made any effort to change. But he does not hate us.

Tough love is hard but it can get results. I’m not saying it works with every kid, but I think if you continue to enable them in their offensive behaviors, they become even more entitled, then when you do cut it off it makes them angry and want to lash out at you. Better never to start the enabling to begin with. Of course with drugs in the mix, things are more out of control, but in general, I think it’s better to let them figure it out and learn from their mistakes.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Yoga, tyvm. Bless your heart.

It is truly Nar Anon and my therapist who taught me that I was not supposed to be living in an abusive situation with a very ill and, yes, mean adult child...that letting go isn't myself being a bad mother. I wasn't told these things outright, of course. My therapist was good at letting me figure things out myself. If he had just preached what to do...well, I can be stubborn.

Nar Anon's program and working the steps brought me to the same conclusions on my own. We don't tell one another what to do at meetings. We read and take turns discussing what the Reading of the Day means to us. If somebody doesnt have something to say, she can say "pass."

I have to say I was shocked to realize that the only person I should try to control is me. I thought Mom's fixed everyone. This realization hit me hard, but was very clear when I saw it... I could not control my daughter's addiction. There. I voukdnt control her. She will do only what she wants to do when she wants to do it. Quitting is up to her. Or not.

I can't control her lifestyle decisions beyond quitting either. She is well into her 30s now and her life choices are to be homeless (no rules, no work, nobody telling her what she can and can't use) and to "be free." She and her worthless husband (they physically fight regularly but she will not leave him) are both on SSDI. Have no idea how they got approved but she would not try to get benefits while living near us..."You're rich. Why should I have to go on welfare?" (We are far from rich but she would say that).

Like idiots we bought her a few places to live, including a house, three cars she cracked up, paid lots of rent too...she ended up thrown out of everywhere due to her inability/unwillingness to keep up her yard or follow rules. They used drugs openly and fought each other in public and loudly. Trust me, I don't ever think men should touch women, but Kay is big and strong and can really hurt Lee...so they fight as equals and neighbors call the cops on both. We bailed both out if jail at times.

Kay has also refused treatment and finally my husband left me because he wanted to stop all $$$ and I did not. He found someone else and I lost it. But I don't blame him either. He had been begging me to stop the enabling for several years and I would call him a cold man and a bad father and I was just lovely....not.

This was ten years in and after he left I had a near nervous breakdown and had to take medications and go to therapy. My husband heard and said he loved me and that he wanted to work things out. He came back and we both saw my therapist and joined Nar Anon. And shortly after starting Nar Anon I agreed with what my husband had begged me to do. Kay was destroying me even as she kept pushing me for more money. She was making my husbands health problems worse. Our other daughter and our son were avoiding us. They felt set aside and tired out. Yet they were the ones helping us run our business...it was so unfair.

All money, all "help" to Kay stopped. I am now happily married to my husband and my.other, good kids are so glad Kay is no longer a daily headache. Sounds so unloving but I am trying to be honest even if it's awful of us to feel this way.

Kay and her husband Lee were given a dilapidated motorhome by an aunt and they drove to Arizona and live in it on some public property, we believe. After Kay realized that the Bank of Dad and Mom was truly closed (oh, she tried her best to guilt us many times)...then she disowned us and took off to the other side of the country. And blocked all social media.

Cousins tell us that besides SSDI, the two of them get Food Share and Medicare. This all goes with Disability. So she is eating. She is not working. Lee has a part time job at a pizza place. He always did jobs like that...part time low pay. So Kay did not decide to thrive when we stopped the enabling, but they are truly no worse off. And their son (yes, a poor child was born of this union) has been living with our other daughter since Kay took off. They signed away custody.

They never call him or check in on him but he is doing really well with my nice daughter and her husband and cousins. Jaden has autism but he is getting tons of help and is much calmer than he used to be.

Are we angry at Kay for her lifestyle choices? Not anymore. Anger is useless and upsets our serenity. We know we have zilch control over Kays life, that there are mo magic words or magic things WE can say or do that will change her. So what reason is there to waste time in anger or resentment? It will only harm us.

Our family is closer and healthier without her around.That may sound awful but none of us are meant to be MOMMIES for life. We can be mothers and friends if our kids are good people. A mommy is for children. Our adult kids have legal privileges that children don't. They have to grow up their way. Even if it's a bad way. We won't live forever, even if we refuse to give up the mommy role.

Everyone in our NarAnon group....all people with spouses, one brother, one boyfriend and the rest adult children have let go. Not our newcomers, of course. These are our regulars. We are a great group and we support one another. Nobody has to "share" anything at any meeting until/unless she is ready. I say she because our group is about ten of us, from various states on Zoom...and our group is all woman. None of the members who have been in the group for a while give any money or live with the addict. The book we read from a daily reader called is Sharing Experience, Strength and Hope and it is on AMAZON if you are interested in buying it. I love this book. I read it constantly.

Anyhow I hope you can remember that your recovery is for yourself because you can only control yourself. All my therapy is focused on my own Serenity. Not on what to do about Kay. Kay has to do Kay.

My favorite prayer. But you don't need to use the word God for it to work.

The Setenity Prayer

God grant me the Serenity to...
Accept the things I can not change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Hugs.
 

Crayola13

Well-Known Member
I teach English Comp I, II, creative writing, and advanced placement literature at a high school. These students have amazing and sometimes gifted abilities, but their problem is they can’t handle boredom. They are easily bored and have to have constant stimulation because they just lose interest in everything they have to do. These students don’t know how to handle boredom, so they get themselves into trouble because it’s more entertaining to do something risky than to follow the rules of life. It’s not always ADHD. These students just cannot keep themselves entertained about anything.

I don’t know what the solution is, but I’ve seen it happen so many times to brilliant students and athletes who could have the world as their oyster.
 

Nandina

Member
Crayola, I don’t want to hijack Lori’s thread here but would love to discuss this further because I have long had my own opinion on the lack of attentiveness of kids today. I’m not sure which forum to use but would like to continue, maybe under General Parenting and appreciate your insight as a teacher who sees this on a regular basis.
 

YogiLori

Member
I don’t necessarily believe your son will never speak to you again. Sometimes demanding respect from them and making them a little uncomfortable by not enabling their abusive behavior sets them in the right direction, at least on how to behave around you. You can’t make him stop doing drugs or make him get a job and work. He’ll do that when things get tough enough for him and he finds out no one is going to give him a free ride. But he has to “feel” it, and he won’t as long as someone is stepping in to help when it gets difficult for him.

I will let you in on something…I have three children, two older than the child that brought me here. None of them has been a picnic (lol) but far easier than the third! No drugs, thank goodness, but the teenage disrespect and attitude, etc. was there and my daughter, the oldest, now 34, was very hard to manage though she was never a problem in school so at least that part was easy. But she was very oppositional and argumentative her entire life. (Still is, actually)

The other son (now 31) was always in sports in high school and was never a problem until he flunked out of college and became depressed, moved back home, wouldn’t get a job, etc. His behavior was such that we eventually had to ask him to leave. Daughter once asked us if she could spend the night at her boyfriend’s house, we said no way, and she decided to do it anyway. We told her if she did, she couldn’t come back. (this was the summer before college). Well, we stuck to our guns. We took the car back, she had to buy one. And she ended up having to live at that boyfriend’s mother’s house for the rest of the summer. Perhaps we went overboard, but she learned not to disrespect our rules.

it didn’t take long for each of them to get it right and come back around and daughter actually apologized for her behavior growing up after she began working in a home for wayward teenage girls! She realized some of what she had put us through, lol. You know what they say…what goes around comes around…

Today, we have a great relationship with both kids. Even the youngest, who brought me here has continued a loving relationship with us although right now I am keeping a distance just because he has taken advantage of our help and not made any effort to change. But he does not hate us.

Tough love is hard but it can get results. I’m not saying it works with every kid, but I think if you continue to enable them in their offensive behaviors, they become even more entitled, then when you do cut it off it makes them angry and want to lash out at you. Better never to start the enabling to begin with. Of course with drugs in the mix, things are more out of control, but in general, I think it’s better to let them figure it out and learn from their mistakes.
Thank you. There is an update. Today after dropping my second son at school I ran into the guy my first son is staying with. He asked me why Nathan is still at his house. I said I didn't know. After some back and forth he told me it is time for Nathan to leave. He is not working or doing anything. Nathan was planning to move back with us for a time till he moves in an apt with a friend, but after my husband and I met with him, he was acting like such an :censored2: we changed our mind. So now he is sulking. The man (Nathan's best friends dad) told me Nathan has to move back to our house cause he is done now. I know that is not what I am supposed to do......but Nathan is doing NOTHING about it. I told my husband (who is busy working today) and I am a wreck. There is something wrong with Nathan. He will not take responsibility. And he was so mean a couple weeks ago when we were agreeing to let him come back for a short time. I am panicking today and feel like my head is spinning. My son has no friends that he can ask a favor. My mother in law said he could live there.....OMG this never ends
 

YogiLori

Member
Yoga, tyvm. Bless your heart.

It is truly Nar Anon and my therapist who taught me that I was not supposed to be living in an abusive situation with a very ill and, yes, mean adult child...that letting go isn't myself being a bad mother. I wasn't told these things outright, of course. My therapist was good at letting me figure things out myself. If he had just preached what to do...well, I can be stubborn.

Nar Anon's program and working the steps brought me to the same conclusions on my own. We don't tell one another what to do at meetings. We read and take turns discussing what the Reading of the Day means to us. If somebody doesnt have something to say, she can say "pass."

I have to say I was shocked to realize that the only person I should try to control is me. I thought Mom's fixed everyone. This realization hit me hard, but was very clear when I saw it... I could not control my daughter's addiction. There. I voukdnt control her. She will do only what she wants to do when she wants to do it. Quitting is up to her. Or not.

I can't control her lifestyle decisions beyond quitting either. She is well into her 30s now and her life choices are to be homeless (no rules, no work, nobody telling her what she can and can't use) and to "be free." She and her worthless husband (they physically fight regularly but she will not leave him) are both on SSDI. Have no idea how they got approved but she would not try to get benefits while living near us..."You're rich. Why should I have to go on welfare?" (We are far from rich but she would say that).

Like idiots we bought her a few places to live, including a house, three cars she cracked up, paid lots of rent too...she ended up thrown out of everywhere due to her inability/unwillingness to keep up her yard or follow rules. They used drugs openly and fought each other in public and loudly. Trust me, I don't ever think men should touch women, but Kay is big and strong and can really hurt Lee...so they fight as equals and neighbors call the cops on both. We bailed both out if jail at times.

Kay has also refused treatment and finally my husband left me because he wanted to stop all $$$ and I did not. He found someone else and I lost it. But I don't blame him either. He had been begging me to stop the enabling for several years and I would call him a cold man and a bad father and I was just lovely....not.

This was ten years in and after he left I had a near nervous breakdown and had to take medications and go to therapy. My husband heard and said he loved me and that he wanted to work things out. He came back and we both saw my therapist and joined Nar Anon. And shortly after starting Nar Anon I agreed with what my husband had begged me to do. Kay was destroying me even as she kept pushing me for more money. She was making my husbands health problems worse. Our other daughter and our son were avoiding us. They felt set aside and tired out. Yet they were the ones helping us run our business...it was so unfair.

All money, all "help" to Kay stopped. I am now happily married to my husband and my.other, good kids are so glad Kay is no longer a daily headache. Sounds so unloving but I am trying to be honest even if it's awful of us to feel this way.

Kay and her husband Lee were given a dilapidated motorhome by an aunt and they drove to Arizona and live in it on some public property, we believe. After Kay realized that the Bank of Dad and Mom was truly closed (oh, she tried her best to guilt us many times)...then she disowned us and took off to the other side of the country. And blocked all social media.

Cousins tell us that besides SSDI, the two of them get Food Share and Medicare. This all goes with Disability. So she is eating. She is not working. Lee has a part time job at a pizza place. He always did jobs like that...part time low pay. So Kay did not decide to thrive when we stopped the enabling, but they are truly no worse off. And their son (yes, a poor child was born of this union) has been living with our other daughter since Kay took off. They signed away custody.

They never call him or check in on him but he is doing really well with my nice daughter and her husband and cousins. Jaden has autism but he is getting tons of help and is much calmer than he used to be.

Are we angry at Kay for her lifestyle choices? Not anymore. Anger is useless and upsets our serenity. We know we have zilch control over Kays life, that there are mo magic words or magic things WE can say or do that will change her. So what reason is there to waste time in anger or resentment? It will only harm us.

Our family is closer and healthier without her around.That may sound awful but none of us are meant to be MOMMIES for life. We can be mothers and friends if our kids are good people. A mommy is for children. Our adult kids have legal privileges that children don't. They have to grow up their way. Even if it's a bad way. We won't live forever, even if we refuse to give up the mommy role.

Everyone in our NarAnon group....all people with spouses, one brother, one boyfriend and the rest adult children have let go. Not our newcomers, of course. These are our regulars. We are a great group and we support one another. Nobody has to "share" anything at any meeting until/unless she is ready. I say she because our group is about ten of us, from various states on Zoom...and our group is all woman. None of the members who have been in the group for a while give any money or live with the addict. The book we read from a daily reader called is Sharing Experience, Strength and Hope and it is on AMAZON if you are interested in buying it. I love this book. I read it constantly.

Anyhow I hope you can remember that your recovery is for yourself because you can only control yourself. All my therapy is focused on my own Serenity. Not on what to do about Kay. Kay has to do Kay.

My favorite prayer. But you don't need to use the word God for it to work.

The Setenity Prayer

God grant me the Serenity to...
Accept the things I can not change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Hugs.
I know you are so right. I wrote to someone else today that the person Nathan is staying with says he needs to leave. It isnt cause he is being bad or anything. He has been there since like June 10 and it is time. He said, can he move back with you? I was staring at him like NO he cannot. He has no place to go. I spoke to my husband who is at work and very busy and wasn't planning on dealing with this today.........My son Nathan knows I am the weak link and has come between my husband and me many times. I know this for sure. I am leaving it up to my husband. My head is spinning and I am sick to my stomach. My son is 19 and "an adult" yet I think he has the maturity level of a 15 yr old due to the marijuana.......I thank you for the invitation to your group, I need to be admitted into a group all day and night everyday. I am allowing this situation to destroy the small bit of serenity I have worked on since June. I am not at peace today at all. I bought that book and am planning to attend a meeting on Thursday evening. I have not received the book yet but will also attend your meeting. Is it Wednesday??
 

YogiLori

Member
I don’t necessarily believe your son will never speak to you again. Sometimes demanding respect from them and making them a little uncomfortable by not enabling their abusive behavior sets them in the right direction, at least on how to behave around you. You can’t make him stop doing drugs or make him get a job and work. He’ll do that when things get tough enough for him and he finds out no one is going to give him a free ride. But he has to “feel” it, and he won’t as long as someone is stepping in to help when it gets difficult for him.

I will let you in on something…I have three children, two older than the child that brought me here. None of them has been a picnic (lol) but far easier than the third! No drugs, thank goodness, but the teenage disrespect and attitude, etc. was there and my daughter, the oldest, now 34, was very hard to manage though she was never a problem in school so at least that part was easy. But she was very oppositional and argumentative her entire life. (Still is, actually)

The other son (now 31) was always in sports in high school and was never a problem until he flunked out of college and became depressed, moved back home, wouldn’t get a job, etc. His behavior was such that we eventually had to ask him to leave. Daughter once asked us if she could spend the night at her boyfriend’s house, we said no way, and she decided to do it anyway. We told her if she did, she couldn’t come back. (this was the summer before college). Well, we stuck to our guns. We took the car back, she had to buy one. And she ended up having to live at that boyfriend’s mother’s house for the rest of the summer. Perhaps we went overboard, but she learned not to disrespect our rules.

it didn’t take long for each of them to get it right and come back around and daughter actually apologized for her behavior growing up after she began working in a home for wayward teenage girls! She realized some of what she had put us through, lol. You know what they say…what goes around comes around…

Today, we have a great relationship with both kids. Even the youngest, who brought me here has continued a loving relationship with us although right now I am keeping a distance just because he has taken advantage of our help and not made any effort to change. But he does not hate us.

Tough love is hard but it can get results. I’m not saying it works with every kid, but I think if you continue to enable them in their offensive behaviors, they become even more entitled, then when you do cut it off it makes them angry and want to lash out at you. Better never to start the enabling to begin with. Of course with drugs in the mix, things are more out of control, but in general, I think it’s better to let them figure it out and learn from their mistakes.
Gosh, you are good parents and so strong. I am sure we have enabled Nathan cause he is an entitled, lazy, unmotivated person. My husband says tough love and he is a teacher and was basically the only middle school teacher who did the hard stuff. All his students adore him but my son hates him unless he gets what he wants..... I AM THE WEAK LINK and let Nathan manipulate me and get in between us. I am letting my husband take control on this one. I don't want anything to do with decision because I feel myself weakening and I am literally sick to my stomach. My head is spinning and I have been playing the victim this morning crying and saying woah is me. I see you've had 3 difficult kids and have done the right thing.....I am not good at tough love - I HATE it. I know it is the only thing we can do but I literally don't know how to do it. So my husband will do the tough thing and I am staying out of it cause I will ruin it.........My son is blocked on my phone so he can only contact my husband. OMG i hate this so much.
 

Nandina

Member
Lori, first of all, is that your son’s real name you are using? Most of us use pseudonyms to maintain anonymity.

We are no better parents than you, just have been around the block a little longer, so to speak. I had to change my entire parenting style to parent my son, who sounds a lot like your boy. He had no motivation except to get in trouble, hang out with druggies, was very immature for his age and didn’t ever take responsibility for anything.

The violence started with the onset of puberty, with holes being punched in walls and doors, breaking things, police being called, juvenile court involved and me being a nervous wreck, so once he became an adult, we had to remove him from our home for the sake of our sanity and safety. He was getting in my face and threatening me, acting more vicious when my husband wasn’t around—really taking advantage of my weakness. He actually chose to leave on his own because of the pull of marijuana which he had just discovered. But we told him he couldn’t live here ever again. It hurt like heck but it was a relief from all the chaos and violence. We can’t possibly go back to the way it was.

Your son has got to know that he is going to end up homeless by not doing what is expected of him or making any effort to take responsibility for himself. He’s a smart kid, right? Got accepted to college? Sometimes they have to hit rock bottom to turn things around. Or not. I’ll be honest—I don’t know if my son has a rock bottom. You’d think it would have been jail, but even the possibility of returning there did not stop him from walking away from his third drug treatment program in two years.

Yes, this is very, very hard. But you can get through it. He will find his way. These kids are incredibly resourceful even as they continue to stay high. He is probably stronger than you think. But one thing that concerns me is that he is driving a wedge between you and your husband. My husband got tired of hearing about it as well and we had more arguments than I care to admit about how to deal with our son. Don’t let him ruin your marriage or disrupt the peace of your other child.

Hugs and stay strong.
 

Ascending

Member
Gosh, you are good parents and so strong. I am sure we have enabled Nathan cause he is an entitled, lazy, unmotivated person. My husband says tough love and he is a teacher and was basically the only middle school teacher who did the hard stuff. All his students adore him but my son hates him unless he gets what he wants..... I AM THE WEAK LINK and let Nathan manipulate me and get in between us. I am letting my husband take control on this one. I don't want anything to do with decision because I feel myself weakening and I am literally sick to my stomach. My head is spinning and I have been playing the victim this morning crying and saying woah is me. I see you've had 3 difficult kids and have done the right thing.....I am not good at tough love - I HATE it. I know it is the only thing we can do but I literally don't know how to do it. So my husband will do the tough thing and I am staying out of it cause I will ruin it.........My son is blocked on my phone so he can only contact my husband. OMG i hate this so much.

It’s all a learning process!!!

A hard one!


I wrote back some where you wrote on thread I started. It took actually being homeless (living in car ) for awhile for my son to be ready to change.

First, I think you need to feel okay to choose whatever meets your needs and those of your other son and husband first. That might be exactly what you are doing and letting your husband take control. And you can be sad because situation is sad. But the other way clearly wasn’t working for any of you, so this can at least be better for 3. And maybe it will be best for manipulative son too.

Some of all this may not even be very personal, but as much a situation of these times, just like losing a child to a war might have been in some prior time. Marijuana, vapes, etc entered into schools badly for this era. And it was probably not chance even that it happened. Plus popular culture influence. Including movies and media showing riches and drugs and almost no one is shown working hard ...

If you do ever let him home again or anything equivalent tough love and clear rules will still be needed. (And I hope any other relative etc giving him a chance will do that in your stead.
Though you can only control you.)

And I want to highly recommend
In Sheep’s Clothing by George Simon about dealing with manipulative people.
And if he’s going to a relatives you might share the book with them.

https://a.co/aarMgap


One of my requirements for my son being at home was treating me with kindness, respect and ... one other word that eludes me now.

Another of course was no drugs.

Another requirement was work. He had to find a job and make it work asap. Since currently there are tons of work places looking for employees this was not so difficult now as it might have been in other times, though still harder than one would have thought. Including that a minimum wage grocery bagging job that seems to be begging for people has yet to have had a reply, while he actually ended up taking a $20 per hour type job.

Then, very important, has been nipping seemingly “small stuff” like minor disrespect or meanness to dogs in the bud.

...
 
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