Is it normal to be THIS argumentative?

[lisa3girls]

and contrary about everything?? My conversation today with 16 yo about upcoming college recruiting weekend for equestrians....

Me: We are staying in the Marriott next weekend in xxxx town
Her: OK, why not the host hotel?
Me: point, marriott free
Her: OK

at this point I am thinking cool, decent conversation

Than me: M, since your riding coach is now a judge for college equestrian why don't you ask her to give you some .......
Her: Don't your remember I told you, I am GOING with her to one.
Me: Ok
Her: You know, during my Feb break from school
Me: Ok, but that is AFTER your recruiting weekend
Her: So????? I KNOW everything about it, I read about it anway, I know what to do, what they want
Me: Well, ok, but I just thought maybe that since....
Her: I KNOW!!!! I READ about it!!

The ..... is where she butts in and talks over me before I even SAY what I mean to say--- she does this ALL the time.

Then- she was driving (she has a permit) and this is how it went:

Me: You are too far to the right, getting in the snow...please move left
Her: I KNOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!
Me: Ok, I am trying to help you learn, you need to keep your right.......
Her: I KNOW, (now mocking tone)...I NEED to keep my right tires in the road blah blah rant
Me: Ok, but you were speeding up, and that is when.....
Her: I DIDN'T MEAN to SPEED UP!!!
Me: Ok, it doesn't matter if you meant to, but you did and so the reason why....
Her: I know why, you don't have to tell me everything!
Me: Actually I am teaching you right now and if I perceive you did something that you shouldn't, I need to tell you and you need to listen and not argue....
Her: But I KNOW, I am NOT arguing.....

sigh

 

[slsh]

I think part of it is typical teen. My soon to be 13-year-old supposed easy child recently just pulled the "I'M NOT ARGUING" thing, after she was complaining about... oh, who knows what, but if I told her to breathe, she would argue about it. Anyway, the screeching statement that she wasn't arguing (after she just spent the last 5 minutes arguing) hit my funny bone and I dissolved into giggles. Things went downhill really fast from there.

My current plan is to try to remember to just keep my mouth shut with- her because absolutely nothing I say is right or well-received. I had no idea I was such a complete "jerk face" (after raising a difficult child, I do have to admire her terminology, LOL). I am contemplating keeping a journal through her teen years to give to her as a present when *her* kids hit their teen years.

Hang in there!

 

[TerryJ2]

Are you sure you weren't with my son today?

I can hardly wait until he gets his permit.

 

[DammitJanet]

Sue...that would be a thoughtful gift!

I think that most, if not all teens are argumentative. It kind of comes with the territory. My personal belief is that they get more and more hard to get along with so that when it is time for them to leave the nest, we are glad to see them go. If they were the lovely, angelic little darlings we brought home from the hospital we would never let them go. Having snarling, bad tempered pitbulls in the bodies of our young adult kids makes it so much easier to say "Go forth my child!"

 

[Marguerite]

Is it normal to be this bad? yep.

A couple of points for you though - first, if you are instructing her and you feel she is not driving safely or following directions, she MUST pull over when you ask her to and then you talk things through. You have the right to get her out form behind the wheel and you step in and take over. Do NOT let her continue to drive if you do not feel she is taking direction from you.

HOWEVER - a lot of what you describe (while driving, anyway) sounds like her need to be in control. The trouble is, as a learner, she is NOT be definition in control and she needs to be reminded of this. We have found that if we insist (especially if it's me - for once difficult child 3 will take change of driver better from husband) we can get a tantrum from him. But then the next time he wants to drive we can say, "After the way you behaved last time? If we let you drive, you MUST do what we say and not backchat. If you want to discuss the issue, you pull over and we discuss on the side of the road. You're LEARNING. Part of learning means, you listen and you act accordingly. If you cannot do this with respect, you will not be permitted to drive."

Now another point - she's a girl. I read something/heard something that girls in their teens often will talk out a problem/question/issue to get the various aspects of the issue straight in their minds, while boys just get sullen and silent, by comparison. There are degrees of this, but it comes down to perceptions - they interviewed teens (both sexes) and the parents and found that girls will apparently argue, especially with their mothers, but do not themselves believe they are arguing.

Always remember that if you need to, you can simply put everything on pause and say, "We will stop everything and talk this through now."

With what you describe, we're at the stage with difficult child 3 that when he talks to us like this and cuts across what we are saying impatiently, we stop him and say quietly, "Please don't interrupt. You may be right in assuming what I am going to say, but you can't know for sure. Let me finish, then you speak. Ands please speak respectfully. I am not trying to be difficult, I am trying to converse. Now, please try again and please do it politely." Then you start over with the topic - "As I was trying to ascertain - what do you understand the arrangements to be with your equestrian coach?"
If she says impatiently, "But I've TOLD you already!" then simply say, "You may have. But I perhaps had a lot on my mind, I also want to check that I've got the information down right. I'm not saying I don't know anything about it, I just want to confirm what the arrangements are now, at this point. It's helpful to do a re-cap. You do want me on the same page as you in this, don't you?"

Marg

 

[BusynMember]

Sounds typical teen. My easy child talks like that now that she's a big fourteen. She thinks she knows it all. She'll learn

Me: Jumper, how did you do on that test?
Her: No answer.
Me: I asked you a question.
Her: You don't have to YELL.
Me: I was just talking.
Her: No, you were yelling. I don't know how I did on it.
Me: Well, do you have a feeling about it?
Her. I.don't.know! You're annoying me.

I am very close to Jumper and s he has never had serious behavior problems or been in trouble. Her only diagnosis is ADD inattentive. She does not hang with bad kids. She is a school athlete. But she is argumentative and I chalk it up to the age.

 

[HaoZi]

I was going to say it all sounds normal to me, but everyone else beat me to it.

 

[KTMom91]

Yes. But it does get better...v e r y s l o w l y. Miss KT was one of those charming children who would argue about whether the sky was purple or the sun would rise in the west today. AND since she knew everything, anyway, my opinions didn't count. Now that she's 19, I've become the smartest woman in the world, able to guide Miss KT safely back to college from 300 miles away.

If she's popping off to you while driving, though, that's a different story. I'd limit her driving experience and refuse to ride with her unless she can speak like a civilized person (one of my standard requirements for Miss KT if she wanted any help from me whatsoever).

 

[lisa3girls]

Sue...that would be a thoughtful gift!

I think that most, if not all teens are argumentative. It kind of comes with the territory. My personal belief is that they get more and more hard to get along with so that when it is time for them to leave the nest, we are glad to see them go. If they were the lovely, angelic little darlings we brought home from the hospital we would never let them go. Having snarling, bad tempered pitbulls in the bodies of our young adult kids makes it so much easier to say "Go forth my child!"

This is my theory too

 

[lisa3girls]

Sounds typical teen. My easy child talks like that now that she's a big fourteen. She thinks she knows it all. She'll learn

Me: Jumper, how did you do on that test?
Her: No answer.
Me: I asked you a question.
Her: You don't have to YELL.
Me: I was just talking.
Her: No, you were yelling. I don't know how I did on it.
Me: Well, do you have a feeling about it?
Her. I.don't.know! You're annoying me.

I am very close to Jumper and s he has never had serious behavior problems or been in trouble. Her only diagnosis is ADD inattentive. She does not hang with bad kids. She is a school athlete. But she is argumentative and I chalk it up to the age.

LOL on "you don't have to yell"- mine always says, why are you flipping out on me? Apparently just asking any questions or seeking clarification at all now = flipping out

 

[lisa3girls]

If she's popping off to you while driving, though, that's a different story. I'd limit her driving experience and refuse to ride with her unless she can speak like a civilized person (one of my standard requirements for Miss KT if she wanted any help from me whatsoever).

Yes, this is how I have been handling that...and husband is much less patient than I , so she is motivated not to **** me off too much if she wants to ever drive

 

[BusynMember]

I'm on my fifth teen and arguing is part of the territory...lol. And, yes, Jumper seems to think I'm yelling when I'm just talking. Mostly, I just let it go, knowing by my other older kids that this corrects itself and that she is basically a good-hearted kid who loves us a lot. Hormones are wicked!

 

[Marg's Man]

I'm going to ignore the rest (you have to with teens anyway) but driving is a different matter.

Staying calm when you are behind the wheel of the one to two ton monster you are in charge of is ESSENTIAL. There is room behind the wheel for you and nothing else including idiocy, drug influences, tantrums and the like. Try and rehearse a couple of scenarios with your daughter of how to behave when something annoying happens.

We've all had it happen to us; the clown that (almost) runs you off the road to get in front of you and then props suddenly to take the next corner; the tailgater rides you to make you go faster; the little old (insert gender here) who potters along the road 10,15, 20(!) under the limit with their blinker from the last turn going or the person flips you off as they get alongside you on the freeway. This last often leads to road rage incidents with all their attendant dangers. Heck! It's frustrating enough to crawl at a snail's pass past the 100 kmh sign in a traffic jam while watching the heat gauge on the dashboard wrap itself around the too hot stop. In all this you have to stay calm, hard for us, even harder for a difficult child.

Australian drivers are pretty quiet - by that I mean we don't blow our horns much except in truly hazardous situations, almost never in frustration. To do so is almost considered road rage (it's not of course). difficult child 3 has picked up some of his mental driving habits from Grand Theft Auto which is both criminal and un-Australian so he often sees something that he feels requires the use of the horn when it is usually just his frustration speaking. We make him work out what good would it do.
Would it relieve his frustration - maybe but only maybe
Would prevent the incident becoming dangerous - probably not, it has already happened
Would it generate road rage in the other driver - highly likely.
To many other drivers, he's just a young punk learner who shouldn't be on the road blocking their bit of tarmac. It doen't help that he is the most demonised type of driver of all - the teenage male.

The driver supervising a learner is THE driver of the car; you are just doing it by remote control through the limbs of the learner you are supervising. You are not just teaching them where to put their hands and feet to point this weapon (it can KILL and often does; look at the road statistics); you are also teaching them a state of mind to remain in control of the monster and that control starts in their own heads.

Marg's Man

 

[DaisyFace]

The driver supervising a learner is THE driver of the car; you are just doing it by remote control through the limbs of the learner you are supervising. You are not just teaching them where to put their hands and feet to point this weapon (it can KILL and often does; look at the road statistics); you are also teaching them a state of mind to remain in control of the monster and that control starts in their own heads.

Marg's Man

Well said.

 

[DammitJanet]

For a person who has a reasonable amount of anger and rage...I seldom have road rage. Sometimes I have parking lot rage...lol.

I am that person who would rather let someone have the road than fight over it. Not worth my life or peace of mind. Once in a blue moon someone will scare me and I will think omgosh...I should have honked my horn at them but by the time I can get to the point that I should have honked my horn, its too late. They are gone. Im not one to sit behind someone and beep beep beep. I know it doesnt make me move faster and I certainly dont think it should make anyone else. If anything, it makes me slow down! If someone is beeping at me at a stop sign, I take my own sweet time!

Now I did have a bit of a rage in a parking lot with a hired, security guard, wannabe cop. It was in the summer and extremely hot. Not a shady spot to be had except right up next to the store. Billy had to run in to buy something and wasnt going to be gone more than 10 minutes so I stayed in the car with it running so I could have the air on. I pulled up next to the store so if there had been any kind of emergency I could have moved immediately.

Well this rent-a-cop jerk pulls up after I had been there about 6 minutes and starts harassing me. Says I cant park there, its a fire lane. I tell him I know its fire lane but it says no parking and Im not parking, Im standing. Its considering standing if your car is in gear and running. Mine is. Sitting is in park and running. He gets mouthy. I got mouthier. I told him look...Im disabled, there is no shade in your parking lot, I have a problem with my medications and being hot. I dont feel well. My son is in the store and wont be there but another couple of minutes and then I will leave. He starts getting mouthier. I get mouthier. I start calling him ugly names. He starts in. I tell him I have been in that parking lot when there have been vendors in the exact same spot I was in selling products so it cant be that big of a deal. He isnt budging. He claims he is going to call the cops. Billy comes out. We leave. I drive by him sticking my finger out at him calling him every cussword i can think of...then I come home and send a nasty email to walmart corporate. They actually called me and reprimanded him...lmao.