Is this it?

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Littleboylost, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Son had declared he is off all drugs and does not want to do them any more. We said good for you! He slept all day Sunday when he was here for a visit. He looked very forlorn when we asked him to leave. We know he does not like where he lives.

    Today I sent him a text and heard nothing until this afternoon. He said he screwed up and slept in and missed school all day.

    I picked him up and we talked and he said it was too hard to be away from home and that he needed us to help him.

    I told him we have been on the trail of disaster for several years now and being at home has never helped.

    He begged for one last shot (don't they all), he said he would agree to go to long term rehab if he could not stay off the drugs and get his life back on track. This includes getting to school every day and on time, obeying house rules and curfews and drug testing at any time.

    Well I am thinking this over. I did explain to him that if he did return home and failed to meet his commitments and then refuses to go to rehab, he would never be allowed in our home again for any reason. I explained not for a meal, a sleep over, a visit, nothing. Not until he is clean and sober for a good long time.

    I explained, again, that we love him and we always will love him, and he will always have our unconditional love. Expectations and boundaries are not unconditional. I told him to think about what he is proposing and be very clear about what this means. No more second chances this is the end of the road.

    I sense he is being sincere, I sense he realizes he has a problem, he is shifting more towards needing help and realizing that he can not do this on his own.

    I had a terrible night and a difficult day. My intuition was disrupting my every thought. He was present in my thoughts in a concerning way.

    I sense a shift and doctor ktnkniw if it is a true intuition or wishful thinking.

    Well here we go again wash, rinse, repeat. He is still so young and I do hope that this is a shift in the right direction. If it is not it is the end of a chapter and the beginning of a new one.

    He will need to pull a rabbit out of his hat and make a miraculous recovery, realize he can not get this monkey off his back and accept rehab or he is on his own.
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  2. so ready to live

    so ready to live Active Member

    Hi LBL. This is just so hard. At the end of the day, you have to do what you can live with. There are many different opinions here-the camp of no support versus enabling to the end. I appreciate all the many parents who have shared what worked and what didn't for them, I have sifted that info. and come out with the minimal I need to do to sleep at night. With each step, I have learned, even the ones that in hindsight were backward.
    You didn't make a decision right away and that's good because at times a little waiting and watching make the situation so much clearer. Prayers.
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  3. ColleenB

    ColleenB Active Member

    Thinking of you. I know how hard this all is. I do hope he is sincere. But even if he wants to be better it isn’t always a direct road to recovery. I hope you have some peace knowing you have done everything you can and been there for him.

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  4. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    LBL. I love the idea that he is really feeling it now and that has got him really thinking about it now.

    But as simple and dichotomous as the choice seems — want drugs? No Home — want Home? No drugs — both his compliance and your follow through are not simple propositions.

    I’m not suggesting he’s insincere or trying to manipulate at all. But has he tried long term recovery in the past, with or without help? If not, he may find it easy to get sober or be sober until you let him home, but he doesn’t yet know how difficult it is to embrace sobriety as a recovering addict.

    I wonder if there is some interim step
    for him to show good faith and for you not to have to resort to a nuclear option? Is there an after school IOP which could test and provide the necessary support?

    It just seems like this has all transpired so quickly. But then again my son has always been the type who would rather suffer than submit. A kid who really hates discomfort might truly be motivated to get back to their warm home.
  5. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Sam he is in IOP and they DONT DRUG TEST! How dumb is that.

    I wish we had options sadly we do not.

    The bottom line is this will be his last kick at the can. If he fails to maintain his agreement he must leave and husband is adamant that he not be allowed home even for a visit until he is clean for some degree of time. It’s just too difficult.

    He is going to long term rehab on Monday for an intake interview. He will indicate he wants the bed and it will take several weeks before one is available. Between now and then he will need to keep up his agrement (which we highly doubt he can), if not take the bed or pack your bags.

    I do honestly hope he is being genuine as well. There is no way to tell. Here we go again.
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  6. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member


    I hear you.

    I think my worry comes from the fact that failing at his first real attempt at sobriety represents his last kick at the can, for you.

    And that he can try sobriety outside the home. Sobriety needs to be his end. Not just your boundary he is willing to try and stay within.
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  7. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    The last kick at he can comes from his refusal to go to rehab if he fails at his independent attempt at sobriety. If he keeps his agreement and goes to rehab we will be there for him. We will be be there for him detaching and letting him follow his life path but not enabling it.
  8. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I hope he means it. My concern is the all day sleeping. My daughter swore she was clean, just tired when she slept all day. Unfortunately, she was on drugs.
    I dont remember if your son uses benzos, but if diligent. You can not just quit benzos anyway. That can kill you. For benzo addiction, and addiction to Xanax is very fast, the person NEEDS medical treatment or it can be fatal. There is no cold turkey for benzos.
    Be very cautious. They promise us the moon, but are they serious? If they are serious, can they do it? I was fooled several times. I wish you luck, but be very careful. Keep your money and valuables safe and lock up any medication you have in the house. Dont trust him one wit.

    I would not let him use your car or "hang out" with friends. He can do family time. If you let him hang out at all, he will be in temptation's way. Your house/your rules. You dont have to give him the car or let him hang out while he waits for a bed. Substance abusers should not be in cars by our endorsement. Ever. Dangerous for them and others on the road. We should not contribute to car accidents by our addicted kids who whine to drive. It is more loving to say no to that.

    Good luck!! Hugs!
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member


    my son does not want to quit mj. he pays lip service to stopping short term to comply in order to have a place to stay. but this is just a manipulation. abracadabra.

    actually. i think he likes his lifestyle. his problem is housing.

    he believes we should accomodate his rules and deceptions...while accomodating him. which is as i recall the attitude your son was exhibiting up until a week ago, was it?

    my son over and over again plays this game.

    this is what i believe:

    never hurts us more than them.

    this is a process. my son has been to treatment several times. he never bought in. maybe he has not suffered enough. maybe how he lives hurts me more than it does him. that's for sure.

    i wish i had not let my son back until he completed treatment and could demonstrate he was clean. a baseline. at least that way we would have a place to stand.

    nothing is served by letting them lie or manipulate us.

    m told him tonight: the only way you can stay even one night more is get a test from a doctor tomorrow that will show levels. that way we can determine a trend.

    yes. he is suffering, your son is. he needs his parents and his home. but does that mean he is able or willing to do what it takes?

    i know he does not like where he is. but is that what is at stake?

    this may take time and tries. i think you may be best served by a stance that i find excrutiatingly difficult: neutrality.

    honestly. i know nothing. every time my son has left here he comes back worse. i know i cannot control or cure this.

    i know one option would be to let him do what he wants. to give him housing and collect rent and he can live the way he wants.

    but if he wants to do this he can live in subsidized housing away from me and my assistance. my help has conditions.

    oh i hate this. i am so sad.
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  10. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    SWOT we took him off of our insurance and sold his car several months back.
    Zero trust and the safe has all our valuables in it.
    He is to have no one over and he has a living contact he has to sign and abide to before he comes in.

    I know he can’t control squat. He has been on and off benzos and other drugs. We are instituting mandatory drug testing as well.

    One failed drug test and he must go to rehab or leave. Zero tolerance. He is determined that he can do this with out help. It’s a step forward because he is admitig he has a problem. I do not believe he is capable of controling his addiction one bit.

    Hope and no expectations.

    He goes for an intake interview for long term rehab on Monday. A bed will become available soon.

    I know he takes Xanax and other drugs some times he has been clean other times no.

    I am not certain how sustained your use of benzos has to be before you require detox. If they feel he requires detox he will go to hospital for detox and then to the in patient program.
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  11. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    My Dear Copa
    So aptly said by you and SWOT. This is no gracious home coming.

    Indeed and he knows that is not going to happen. He has agreed to all the demands put forward and also to long term rehab should he not succeed. The only one who thinks he is capable of succeeding is him.

    When will they suffer enough? My son has been in a peanut gallery outpatient program which does not even drug test him. We drug test him and I have all the results in my cell phone camera. He needs a long term in patient program. He refused to go. He is bargaining and that is part of the process. He says if he is 100% clean and productive when the bed becomes available he won’t have to go. Sure I’ll entertain that idea. It won’t happen.

    I do not believe he is able to stop on his own.i no longer think he feels the life style of drugs and social asssiatace is an apealing long term plan. Could he have duped us and manipulated us again? Certainly he could have. Time will tell.

    Husband has said if he fails to succeed on his own and does not go to rehab. He will not be able to see us at our home not even for a coffee. He will be in his own to do as he chooses but we will not support his addiction. I support this position.


    If he goes to long term rehab they will arrange sober living after his rehab. He will be 19 going in 20 by then. One day at a time.

    My biggest fear was to not support his request and derail him in his bargaining phase and miss the opportunity to get him into Kim term rehab.

    I either had an. Epiphany or it is wishful thinking that he entered long term rehab and did very well. Time will tell.

    Manipulation, Gas Lighting, Duped again maybe. But we get sucked in. We get sucked in with hope.

    It am protecting my heart and my valuables. No expectations.

    You must tell us more if your tales of your travels in South America. A conversation for the Watercooler perhaps.

    I found the history of the Jewish and German immigration to Argentina to be very interesting. I never knew of this historical connection until I went to visit there several years ago.
  12. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    “My biggest fear was to not support his request and derail him in his bargaining phase and miss the opportunity to get him into Kim term rehab. “

    You’re right. Another shot at getting him into the rehab you think he ultimately needs, is worth some risk. Maybe I’m projecting some dread. My son seems to double down when he has back-to-back fails.
  13. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I could be right there with you Sam make no doubt about it.
  14. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    Clear eyes, full heart.

    A true warrior, mama.
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  15. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    My son was able to stay sober for three months at at time. We always had hope that he was "done". My husband more so than me.

    I did not SEE the change I needed to see any of the times. It came close at times but my gut kept telling me no.

    I was right unfortunately. I was right every damned time. I didn't want to be right.

    That is why in some ways I dread seeing our son on December 16. On the phone he sounds great. Is there someone there with him during calls? Perhaps. I think I am feeling a change. Is it wishful thinking? When I see him and talk to him I will know if true change has taken hold. If the seed we have planted over and over for almost seven years is finally growing roots.

    You are doing everything to protect yourself and I certainly hope that your son can follow through on his promises. If not, you will at least know that you gave him that chance.
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  16. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    i believe we are still locating the responsibility and the changing in ourselves. like we hold the key. that it hinges on something we do or not.

    i have trained my son to think. act and tell others that i am the problem. and m.

    he told me the friend called ne a bixch. my son called me last night a witch.

    and? i beg him to stay. he calls the shots. this morning i woke at 6 to a text saying more or less that i will suffer (and deserve to) more than i could ever imagine. and that he was leaving. because we were abusive. that i behave like a monster. that his friend (who has not seen me in a decade and around whom i have behaved like queen elizabeth) says so too.

    and what did i do? go and beg him to not leave.

    that said: you will do what is in your heart...but leave yourself an give yourself more chances. that's what i think.

    there are parents here who close and lock the door. i could do that for a long time. i can't now. it did not help my son.

    recognize that you are at the same time seizing an opportunity and rewarding his manipulation. that is why we are going nuts.

    they believe the answers and solutions are in us. and we do too.

    oh. i hate my life this minute.
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  17. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    Wow. What a noodle-bending observation that is.

    I think it is causing a minor epiphany to brew. Please hold.
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  18. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Don’t we? We know we can’t cure or control their ailments nor did we cause them. And yet we srill feel like the conductor of rhe orchestra, in that if we do not stay connected, provide opportunity or guidance, they may never find their way.

    Why do we do this to ourselves.

    Copa do not let the rage Permiate your armour. My son has said the most horrible things about us to people and to us. That is the disease manipulating their brain. We know the truth.

    You are a good, kind and loving mother. We all do what we feel our hearts can endure.

    Our past mistakes do not have to predict our future actions.

    Sending you warm hugs.

  19. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    I have been struggling with an update here and simply exausted over the past few days.

    I see a sad broken and softer son than I have seen in a very very long time.

    The risk is falling into FOG and being manipulated by the “Abracadabra”.

    We have come to an agreement and son is home since Tuesday evening. We have searched belongings and found things in his possession that do not belong to him. He has been forthright and honest and returned others we didn’t find in our sweep. We have an iron clad agreement in place and he was more accountable and accepting of this agreement than he has been with any other.

    Our hearts are open with love but guarded with sage armour. Our guts are saying we see a genuine effort. He still feels he can do this with out patient rehab. He has agreed to go to long term in patient rehab intake interview on Monday. He has agreed to drug testing and entering into long term rehab if he fails a single drug test no excuses.

    He was up and to school Tues and I picked him up from there. He has gotten himself out of bed and to school on time Wed and Today. Ok ok I know that doesn’t sound like a huge thing. However, this has not happened in well over a year and has never happened without drama or argument. He has attned full days as well. Baby steps and living in the now.

    We are hopeful with no expectations. He does not have a house key and can not be home when we are not here. All valuables are locked in the safe and any documents that he could use or sell (old drivers licenses, passports, birth certificates), who knows what they will sell if they go off the rails.

    I am calm and less affected by his presence on an emotional level. This is both good and bad I guess.

    I can understand his situation and frustration with the fact that not being able to imbibe as all his friends can and have a successful life path is hard for him to wrap his head around. It is hard enough for adults to comprehend.

    In his sober mind we are going through the throws of shame and guilt with him. A part of me is singing hallelujah on this front as we have NEVER seen this before. Sure we have had hollow apologies with the face of Duper’s Delight ever present. Never sincere remorse like we have seen now.

    I left out bait money, it wasn’t taken. I am concerned still that he appears to have money and cigarettes. Who knows where he is getting the money. I have asked and he said Friends have bought him cheep cigarettes. They are indeed the cheep kind you find on the reserves. Only time will tell and we stay in the present. It is not a lot of money loose change...maybe he is panhandling.

    He is more sincere than we have seen in a long long time. Actually concerned last night because he was 1 minute past curfew. This is the kid who in his last drug addled state was pounding on our door for hours in the early morning.

    He says he has removed all drug connections from his life and his new friends that have helped him are good friends. One is a girl “says they are just friends” she is a year younger than him and her mother is a police officer. Knows my son. He is an extremely likeable boy. Perhaps they are a positive influence on him.
    This is the first time since he was 15 rah he is not clinging to a girlfriend.

    This next part is hard to describe but I see him now as he truly was at 14 before all this mayhem began. Our therapist did indicate that he would not have matured while heavily using drugs. We see that now. He is seeking parental approval like a 13/14 would certainly not an 18 year old. It is a visual mismatch to the 6’ 4” hairy man I see before me and the vulnerable persona of the teen we hear.

    I am glad we Have therapy early next week. I need guidance on how to manage this drug free immature vulnerable 18 year old. I am still waiting for the ingnorant, vulgar, defiant one to show his face. Jeckel and Hyde. The Hulk vs Banner.

    The caution tape is all around but my gut is telling me this is different. This is new. This is the start of the first real change we have ever seen.

    He declared he wants to be clean and pull his boot straps up and graduate. He wants to go to College and he wants a good life. He said “I am a piece of :censored2: son”. We said no you are our son. You always will be our son. Nothing you can do will ever stop us from loving you. You may not see what we do as loving you but it is. He nodded and said he understood completely he was remorseful for the life he has lost, his good friends, his little car and his part time job. He said he felt like we had abandoned him and that he knew now that this was not true. He said he understood why we did what we did and knows his life is a mess because of his bad behaviour. WOW!!

    He has honestly never been anything but angry. Always wanting to return home reluctantly signing living agreements and never making any true effort. He is different this time. If he fails to improve and stay away from drugs on IOP he has agreed he will go to long term in patient rehab. Once his intake interview is behind him he has no more barriers to a bed.

    He is on a Diversion program for 8 weeks for his one set of theft charges (big deal I consider this a joke). He goes to court next Thursday for his possession charges and will most likely get 6 months of probation. If he chooses to go to in patient rehab his probation officer has to petition the courts to defer his probation and dismiss it if he completes rehab. The things I know that I wish I didn’t.

    Our system is so lenient that it truly teaches them nothing. I have essentially told him that the system doesn’t care about him. He must care about himself. We do not have a health care focus on MH and addiction in Canada and the law hurt exacerbates the tangled mess our teens find themselves in. I strongly feel we need to decriminalize drugboisession and spend those funds in rehab. We also need to remove the right to consent to rehab from the drug addicted teen to 21 year old. This I am certain would have a tremendous positive impact on our overburdened legal system and the outcome of turning teen addiction around.

    If I had to put my finger on the one light glimmering out from under the basket, it is that he is speaking of his future, and doing so in a positive light.

    Today is a good day. Living in the moment hope with no expectations.

    Here is to hoping for new and genuine Wisdom.
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  20. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    So very happy for you. I hope your son continues to do well, and that he accepts the rehab bed.

    I've also heard it said that an addict's emotional development stops at the point they become addicted. The good news is their maturing will continue once they're clean.

    Keep us posted, this is wonderful news!
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