Losing it

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Lolag, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. Lolag

    Lolag Lolag

    My son was recently diagnosis with antisocial personality disorder. He is 19 and lives with me. Tonight he went into a rage, threats, broke house phone #4, I think. Threatened me, stood in my face, found an axe and was threatening to use it to destroy my hiuse( he has broken my kitchen windows, guitar,etc before), shut all the electricity off in the house, took my car keys and got in the car,but ultimately brought them back to me. I called 911 saying he was going to destroy my house, (thought he was) cops came and he was sitting on the stoop, nonchalant. Cops started getting after me, saying he was not doing anything, started getting missed AT ME!!! WTF!!! HE The cop took him up to the hospital and basically dismissed me. Saying I needed to leave the door unlocked for my son to come back in or I could get in trouble. My son is so manipulative he had the cop wrapped around his finger. I am going to get a restraining order and eviction order tomorrow. I'm DONE!!! But so devastated.
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Lolag. I am sorry.
    We have had this happen. Son pushing his way in, cops called, and them saying he has tenants rights and why aren't we letting him in when he paid rent. (What rent? He wasn't even living here.)

    My son does the same thing. Acts reasonable and articulate. And we look berserk.
    This is very concerning. I think the restraining order and eviction are a good thing. If he does not pay rent I do not see necessarily that he would have tenants' rights but state law differs.

    It is a good thing for him that he did not take the car because I do not see how that would not have been auto theft. But the thing is, to pick up an axe in your home is to threaten you, let alone your home.

    The diagnosis alone would not have necessarily convinced me; but the way he composed himself, cool, calm and collected in front of the cops, after raging and threatening you? No.

    I can understand your rage at him, but better to calm down, and follow through with the restraining order, eviction, alarm, big dog and anything else you need to keep him out. I worry that when you are no longer angry you will not feel as clear as you do now, that he needs to be away. Keeping him away is the right thing.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  3. toughlovin

    toughlovin Well-Known Member

    Ugh that is awful. When you go get the restraining order ask for a victim advocate to help you. Most courts in most states these days have them. Tell them what you told us and have them help you. Also as in any profession there are good cops and lousy cops.... it certainly sounds like you did not get a cop who understands these issues well at all. I would get in touch with a domestic violence agency and see if they have any advice for someone you can talk to in your area, in particular your police department. I used to work for an agency with a police department and talked to many families in this type of situation. So there may be someone in the PD who will be more sympathetic but obviously not the cops who came to your house that night. But there is help out there. No way should you be living with that kind of threat of violence from your son in your home. My heart goes out to you. It is so painful to see this kind of behavior from our sons.
  4. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of a domestic abuse agency. Kids can abuse parents. A big strong 19 year old can abuse. I volunteeted at one center. They will tell you what to do. They know which cops are good with domestic violence. Obviously not the one you got!!!

    Definitely get a restraining order. You cant toss out anyone who uses your home for his mail unless you evict (at least not in my state) and he sounds too dangerous to keep around. His diagnosis is not promising. A restraining order wiuld force him out more quickly. Do you have a security system in your home? A guard dog?

    Do you have a SO to help YOU? You matter, you are precious! Are there little ones or pets at home? If so please remember to protect them first. They are innocent. If you contact your Domestic Abuse center, you may get somebody from there to go to court with you for a restraining order. I dont know how old you are, but you may be able to contact elder abuse too. It is the worst betrayal when your own child hurts you but it happens more than we hear. It is usually kept a secret. I am so sorry for your broken heart. So very sorry for all you must have gone through up to now. I wish I could give you a real life hug.

    I am also very sorry your son fooled the cop. The cop was not very good at his job. But this ability to flip from a scary dude to an innocent victim is what antisocials try to do. He needs to live somewhere else.

    Be good to yourself and dont doubt yourself. We have your back here.

    Love and light!
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  5. Lolag

    Lolag Lolag

    Thank you for your advice. The cop took him to the hospital last night as my son he wanted to go, came back late last night while I was asleep. My son knows I can't, legally, just kick him out. So I'm going to call a lawyer re: eviction notice today. I feel like a prisoner in my own home.
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  6. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Can you try a restraining order first?

    Your son really played to the cop when he asked for the hospital!!

    Do also get an attorney.

    I dont want to sound like i am writing a spy novel here...but is there such thing as a hidden security camera? If so, if he acts out again you will have it on video. I hope I sound sane here.

    This must stop.
  7. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Well-Known Member

    I have been through the rages and threats with my 36 year old. It is a devastating experience. He too can calm himself down for appearances. It might be helpful to get a nanny cam that catches him in the act. My son moved out and knows he can't stay here anymore but still occasionally drops by. If he is calm and non threatening ok. But if he calls angry and says he is coming over he is told police will be called. My husband will not hesitate. When violence is involved there are no tenants rights but you have to prove violence thats why i suggested a nanny cam. Prayers are with you.
  8. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Lolag, I am so sorry - that sounds like a terrifying and upsetting experience. I've been in the middle of those kinds of scenes and it is awful. I'm so sorry you didn't get more help from the police. I never got help from them in DV situations either. :( It's a form of gaslighting, this ability to project such a calm and reasonable image to authorities and make you look and feel like the crazy one for calling. Telling you you'd better leave the door unlocked for him so he can come back - what the....? Really? That makes me so angry for you! You deserve to be able to protect yourself.

    I hope you are able to get an eviction order and restraining order. In the meantime, I think a hidden camera sounds like a GREAT idea! I would call a DV hotline and see how they can advise you on working through the legal processes in your state and if they can connect you with an advocate who can help you. Swinging an axe around is HUGELY concerning, even if he was not threatening you with it directly. Someone who goes into these kinds of rages is dangerous, and absolutely should not be in your house. It is devastating when this is someone you love. My ex was prone to these kinds of rages and they were terrifying to live with and did escalate to physical. All of my older three have gone through periods of uncontrolled raging. Neither of my sons has ever hurt or threatened me, thank God, I think because they were very aware of their dad's legacy. But my daughter once tried to run me down with a car while in a blind rage like that. There is no reasoning with someone in that mode.

    Big hugs to you. Do what you have to do to protect yourself.
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Are you sure? If he does not pay rent, does he still have tenants' rights? But more to the point, I agree with TL and Tried and True. Son is dangerous. Terrorizing you in your home is criminal. Somebody cannot wield an axe to cause terror. How is this not a terrorist threat? If he were to use words to terrorize you, this would be a felony crime (in my State, carrying a sentence of 3 or 4 years). How is it not worse to terrorize somebody with the very object that could kill in a grisly and horrible way?
    This is so. But there should not be a need to document future events. The terrorizing event already occurred. There is misconduct and liability by the police. I would listen to TL and try to get help from the police and the district attorney about what has already happened:
    I wonder if you have a potential lawsuit that the police did not protect you and exposed you to greater harm.
    Yes. But first we need to make sure he does not come back again. He should not have free rein in your home after he terrorized you. I would try to identify where I can call (or go) to make sure that police and district attorney recognize that you were a victim of a crime. While I am not an attorney I do believe your son crossed a major line. That you would be exposed to him again in your home, waiting for him to do this to you again, NO.
  10. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Although I know that what son did is dangerous and heinous, you need proof. Right now how can the police or a lawyer defend you? Its word against word and I am not sure but I don't think anything can be done unless there is proof or a witness. If Im right, and I am not sure I am but I know its possible, you WILL be dealing with him again. Thus the nanny cam so that you have proof.

    Its an excellent solution in case there are no witnesses. I dont think charges can be made again somebody with no proof. Did he leave any bruises that would indicate proof? Wreck the house?
  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Of course she should guard against future crimes. That goes without saying.

    However in my state I think this would be a crime:

    (Penal Code) prohibits “drawing, exhibiting, or using a firearm or deadly weapon” This offense is commonly referred to as "brandishing" a weapon.

    It is also domestic violence.

    Much if not the majority of domestic violence is hidden. Victims are not expected to be severely wounded or dead in order to get legal protection.

    This mother was a victim both of her son, and of the police. Yes. The police re-offended her. I support her to continue to advocate for herself in regards to what already happened, as well as to protect herself. I think the suggestions by TL that she contact domestic violence agencies, contact the police again (there should be a domestic violence representative) and to contact the district attorney's office are worth listening to. The crime has already been committed, I think.
  12. ForeverSpring

    ForeverSpring Well-Known Member

    Copa of course its a horrible crime. The cop didnt see anything so he really couldnt arrest the son. Nobody can without proof.

    Thats why I suggested the camera. Thats proof.

    If no proof it becomes a he said, she said. She absolutely must stop him. I AGREE with ya. Girlfriend!!!

    Now The Center for Domestic Abuse could offer therapy, maybe other services snd validation. They will believe her. But it wont lead to an arrest.

    Remember....and I dont know where you stand on either court case....but O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthoney were acquitted. Why? Nobody saw them do it. If they did the crimes. Nobody saw.

    Your word is not enough. So you prepare. Now if she can get a restraining order just on her word, which I do believe may be possible, I am.all for it!
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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  13. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    You'd think, but...

    I agree, he has committed a crime by threatening her and her property with a deadly weapon. But the police officer responding apparently didn't think there was enough evidence to charge him with anything at the time, and that makes the burden of proof that much higher. And the burden of proof is on the victim here.

    I got NO help from the police or courts. Restraining orders here aren't given just because you ask for one - you have to demonstrate proof of immediate credible threat or ongoing persistent harassment. At most, you might be able to get a temporary order (usually 10 days) while waiting for a real hearing. But at the real hearing they expect more than "he said/she said." Without tapes, holes in the walls or other physical damage, bruises or other evidence of direct harm, written or electronic correspondence showing threats, etc. it may not be easy to just slap a restraining order on someone. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that. And, of course, a restraining order is only as good as the person's willingness to comply with it. It's only paper protection - it gives you something to use in court against them if they continue to offend, but it's not going to keep you safe from a determined abuser.

    That's part of what makes domestic abuse so difficult and so insidious. I think a local DV agency would have the best advice on how to proceed here and what to do to increase the odds of getting some kind of legal protection and getting him out of the house ASAP.

    I think I might be tempted just to throw him out and change the locks, legal issues around tenants' rights be damned. He could sue for access, but he'd have to take that step, and then you'd have the opportunity to explain in court why you took the actions you did. That can all be sorted out later. Safety is of primary importance here.
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  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I agree with Elsi.

    That the cops did not apprehend does not mean that a crime was not committed. It was. Sometimes there are risks either way. As much or more risk to not act, than to act decisively. In this case I support you to act decisively, both to advise all applicable agencies that a crime was committed, even if it was not acknowledged by the officers, and to guard against any ensuing crime.

    I think we are all in agreement here. Sometimes the more noise we make the safer we will be. Son seems smart enough and in control enough to not risk harm to himself. He is banking upon you to be cowed. That is his m.o.

    Let us know Lolag how it goes today.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  15. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I am so sorry that you had to go through this.

    You have my compassion and prayers.
  16. Elsi

    Elsi Active Member

    Yes, we agree that a crime has definitely been committed! And Lolag, you have a right to take steps to protect yourself. I hope you can find an advocate who can help you navigate through the legal processes here! I really wish that there were more protections for victims in DV cases.
  17. I'm sorry that this frightening event happened. Frequently remind yourself that you deserve to live in peace in your home. Do whatever it takes to get this peace. We will be here to support you!
  18. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    I am so sorry for what you have been going through. I know that kind of fear, lived with it when my son still lived at home.
    I think the others have given you some great advice!

    I think this is a very wise thing to do. Some questions you may want to ask the lawyer. If your son receives mail at your home is that enough to show he's a resident in the home. Also, can you write on the mail "no longer resides at this address" (I did this when my son kept having his mail sent to my home)

    Hang in there and know that you are not alone in this. Please check back in and let us know how you are doing.
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  19. Tired out

    Tired out Active Member

    I like the hidden camera idea.
    My son did some damage to his room which is not okay. He never ever threatened me or his dad. Even when his dad got in his face and yelled his brains out (son deserved to be much more than yelled at). If he had threatened me..forget it.
    Are you there alone with him? I don't understand how they can stay he can stay there. Is his name on a lease or rental agreement?
    Again..the camera..you need proof, hopefully before he gets physical with you. Or hopefully he doesn't have that in him.
  20. Lolag

    Lolag Lolag

    I am so grateful for all your advice, ideas and support!!! I feel blessed to have found this site. My son is home again, acting like all is well. A camera is a great idea, I just think he will see it unless there are some small cameras I can hide. I will look into this. I've also thought of going to the police station and speaking with the officer or his superior about his behavior. Possibly a letter. This is the 4th time they been called. The first he destroyed my picture frames in the house. The second he smashed all my kitchen windows out, tore my thermostat out of my wall and punched holes in the walls. Still have been told I have to evict him. I do have pics of my destroyed home. I will call a DV agency this week. I hope they can give me some guidance. Thank you all again for yiur support.