major development with DS

Beta

Well-Known Member
I'm at work so I can't spend a lot of time explaining, but just a short update:
Josh texted us Tuesday night and said he had nowhere to go and needed a place to stay and could he come here with us. We got him a hotel room for the night and something to eat, bought him a ticket, and he arrived last night. My husband picked him up.

Whew. To say he is like a stranger is an understatement. First of all, the whole ride home, my husband said Josh was hostile and angry and just "vented" the whole way. My husband held his temper, but he really wanted to just drop him off on the side of the road. Josh actually told my husband "he had never done anything for him." This, after we had just done what we did the night before, etc.

He was a little better with me, less belligerent, etc. but I don't know if this is going to work out. When you live hand-to-mouth the way he has, it changes you. You experience degradation that changes you, hardens you, and makes you a not so nice person. He looks and acts like a homeless person.
It was so heartbreaking. He literally walked in with only the clothes on his back. We have no idea what happened to the little bit of stuff he had or any of what transpired to get him on the street.

If you pray, please pray for us. I want this to work, and I realize he may need a lot of space and time to decompress and become a little less "weird" and suspicious and "street like." If he ends up going back to Denver, he will be living in the park where he called us from, and I don't want to see that happen. I really want this to work. The night he called, I had literally prayed on the way home from work, asking God to cause him to text or call us, asking to leave Denver, and then that's what happened. I'm hoping that God has brought this about for good and that it will be okay. But it's scary and unnerving having this stranger in our home who kind of looks like our son but isn't like our son.

By the way, any counsel you might offer would be appreciated.
 

200Meters

A real bustard
I don't know that I have much in the way of counsel but you (plural) will be in my prayers*.

* Afternoon prayers at the synagogue here at the tech park where my office is are in 15 minutes. :)
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Hi there. I am sorry for all of this.

I am very much a lover of God and do all I can with love in my heart and I see why you did this. We did not want Kay with us because she was hurtful and dangerous so we bought her homes, cars, signed for apartments, spent most of our money on her. The only ending to our type of story that I know is our own. I think it is brave of you to allow Josh another chance and I pray it works.

I urge you to set firm boundaries, including no abuse, no drugs, and a job. Easier to say than to do which is why it is easier if they are not living with us in my opinion. But I send you and Josh heartfelt prayers. We have no way of knowing what will happen but I hope it's good.

Love and hugs.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Hoping that this really was your answer to the prayers you have been saying.

Admire your courage but very scary too.

Prayers that this will work out for all of you and you will get your son back. Prayers that your home and family are in God's hands.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Thank you Busy; will keep posting and updating. It is so hard being around him. Praying for God's healing in his life and for restoration of our relationship with him. It will be a long, hard road and require a lot of patience. But I also realize that it's not entirely in our hands; he has to choose to want to make it work, and it may not.
 

JayPee

Sending good vibes...
Beta,

I absolutely will keep Josh in my prayers as well as you and your husband. Is Josh at your home alone while you are at work? I'm not sure why I ask that except that you should keep in mind that he is a "changed" person. I hope your home and belongings will be safe.

Remember that Josh carries a lot of hurt, pain and anger still and that may manifest itself in not so pleasant interactions. Be safe, set boundaries and perhaps make sure that you have someone else with you when he is at home until and or when you feel in your gut that it's safe. Never ignore your gut instinct.

Let me share this with you if I may because it has helped me...

"Thus, the purpose of prayer is perhaps less to obtain what we ask than to Become someone else. We should go further and say that asking something from God transforms us, little by little, into people capable of sometimes doing without what they ask for."

I apply this to myself because in my heart, I begged God for the longest time to have my two sons, whole and healed and part of my life. To date, that has not happened and it nearly broke my heart to accept it. But, in the interim God has not left me high and dry. In fact, he has changed me into a stronger person able to cope with losing my dear sons (for now) while they grow, change and hopefully come back to me someday. For now, I know I can't live with them or rescue them any longer and I can only continue to pray that "God will grant them (and me) the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference." I wish the same for you and your husband and Josh.

God can and will soften the most hardened hearts but the "other" has to be willing to participate. I think that's what we all hope for. That day when our children are willing to become humbled and open to God's healing and help. I think I read this somewhere that God is always willing to help with his hand outstretched but if our fists are clenched we can't receive his help.
 
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Beta

Well-Known Member
JayPee,
First, to your questions--at the moment, he is at home alone as my husband left for work just a bit ago. We have put away any financial stuff he might try to find and use. I too hope my home and belongings will be safe. He does carry a huge amount of anger and bitterness.
This morning I've had a few texts from him, basically scorning the few attempts I've made to try to show love and to make him feel welcome. He seems incapable of even seeing, acknowledging, or responding to acts of love toward him. It hurts but I'm trying to remember that he is sick, dysfunctional person. I promise you, though, that my husband and I will not allow abuse from him.

His hostile, angry behavior is puzzling to me. I did not reach out to HIM; he reached out to ME on Tuesday with a text message, saying he needed a place to stay and could he come here. He was literally living in a park in Denver. No one kidnapped him and forced him to come here to our home, so I'm puzzled as to why he is acting rude and hostile. He told my husband on the way home from the airport last night that he had never thought about suicide until he was on his way here (presumably because he was not wanting to really be here) It seems to defy logic since if it doesn't work out with staying with us, where will he go and what will he do? It seems that he would try to make this work, if only to try to be in a better position to return to Denver in the future.


"Thus, the purpose of prayer is perhaps less to obtain what we ask than to Become someone else. We should go further and say that asking something from God transforms us, little by little, into people capable of sometimes doing without what they ask for."
.
Yes, I believe that God often uses prayer to change our desires to be in line with His will. I have no idea what His purpose in allowing this situation to develop is. Is Josh here because God can use this to work in him better? Or is he here because God wants to show us (me especially) that there truly is NO MORE we can do for Josh? I don't know yet what the answer is. I'm clinging to hope and reaching out blindly in this darkness.

But, in the interim God has not left me high and dry. In fact, he has changed me into a stronger person able to cope with losing my dear sons (for now) while they grow, change and hopefully come back to me someday. For now, I know I can't live with them or rescue them any longer and I can only continue to pray that "God will grant them (and me) the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."
We need wisdom here, that's for sure. Thank you for your concern--I'm not taking the potential for danger lightly or disregarding the possibility that he is so changed that he is not a safe person to be around.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Beta, Kay did this too. And she would say something like "I hate to depend on you! It makes me so angry!" If we told her to walk away if she felt that way she would shout and sometimes cry "And go where? You would like me to be homeless, wouldn't you? No, you are my parents. I will let you do what you are supposed to do!" Insert many cuss words in there.

I do think they hate depending on us, even though they will take the help. Most of them seem to not be grateful for it or nice. Yes, they are sick but there is help out there for them to get better and easier to live with. They just won't.

I am done giving Kay anything. But I sure hope things go well for you and your son. Hugs.
 

Blindsided

Face the Sun
Thank you Busy; will keep posting and updating. It is so hard being around him. Praying for God's healing in his life and for restoration of our relationship with him. It will be a long, hard road and require a lot of patience. But I also realize that it's not entirely in our hands; he has to choose to want to make it work, and it may not.
Beta, I am so glad you realize this. Prayers coming your way that Josh will get the help he needs and I know you hope he embraces. I have come to accept my Difficult Child needs help I cannot provide. Her behavior requires professional help that I am not in a position to give. If Josh doesnt make that choice, I pray for your strength and safety in going about enforcement of your boundaries.

Yes, do keep us updated and feel the support here no matter what.
 

Crayola13

Well-Known Member
A few months ago you said you were afraid of him. That was when he was staying with your sister. I hope you have taken measures to stay safe.

Obviously, he doesn't know he's mentally ill. I volunteer at the shelter which is full of people who refuse to believe they are mentally ill. They won't take their medications or see a doctor. Times have changed and only in rare cases can a judge require them to take medications or go to counseling.

You did what he wanted by getting him on a plane immediately, and he's still not happy. Maybe after a few weeks if he's still complaining and being verbally abusive, he might be happier elsewhere.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I didn't remember this.

Please, please take care of yourself.

We do not have to put ourselves in the line of fire even for our kids. Our safe loved ones need us healthy and alive. Unfortunately many of theses drug addicted, mentally ill strong adults can do harm to us. Kay can. She is banned from our house.

To us violence is our boundary. The reason why, including untreated mental illness, does not matter. Nobody can be alone with us if they are a threat to us. We used to visit Kay in crowded venues, never alone. Never here. We would not even walk her out to her car if it was empty of people outside. I will keep praying.
 
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Beta

Well-Known Member
Thank you all for the concern. I'm at work and have not been home today, but I am not feeling real positive about this. I offered through text message to take him shopping for some clothing and shoes this weekend. He actually got mad and said, "I just want my old sh** back. I'm not going to any of those f--- places for shoe shopping #!###!! with you until I get my old sh** back. You always have money for yourself but you f****ed me over"

I'm thinking maybe I've been the "delusional" one here--thinking that showing love and care for him would soften his heart and relieve some of the anger and bitterness toward us. We'll see how things go this evening.
 

louise2350

Active Member
Beta: Even though you're helping your son out now, he seems not to care or realize it. My siblings and myself never asked my parents for any money, etc. and we all made it on our own. Of course things were different years ago, but now they have many opportunities available for anyone who is willing to put forth the effort. Your son sounds very angry. I do hope you are safe and I will keep you in my prayers.
 

newstart

Well-Known Member
I'm at work so I can't spend a lot of time explaining, but just a short update:
Josh texted us Tuesday night and said he had nowhere to go and needed a place to stay and could he come here with us. We got him a hotel room for the night and something to eat, bought him a ticket, and he arrived last night. My husband picked him up.

Whew. To say he is like a stranger is an understatement. First of all, the whole ride home, my husband said Josh was hostile and angry and just "vented" the whole way. My husband held his temper, but he really wanted to just drop him off on the side of the road. Josh actually told my husband "he had never done anything for him." This, after we had just done what we did the night before, etc.

He was a little better with me, less belligerent, etc. but I don't know if this is going to work out. When you live hand-to-mouth the way he has, it changes you. You experience degradation that changes you, hardens you, and makes you a not so nice person. He looks and acts like a homeless person.
It was so heartbreaking. He literally walked in with only the clothes on his back. We have no idea what happened to the little bit of stuff he had or any of what transpired to get him on the street.

If you pray, please pray for us. I want this to work, and I realize he may need a lot of space and time to decompress and become a little less "weird" and suspicious and "street like." If he ends up going back to Denver, he will be living in the park where he called us from, and I don't want to see that happen. I really want this to work. The night he called, I had literally prayed on the way home from work, asking God to cause him to text or call us, asking to leave Denver, and then that's what happened. I'm hoping that God has brought this about for good and that it will be okay. But it's scary and unnerving having this stranger in our home who kind of looks like our son but isn't like our son.

By the way, any counsel you might offer would be appreciated.

Hi Beta,
I have been following your posts so I know what is going on right now is a big deal.. Your story reminded me of when my dad was in the hospital, he was very ill and started to be abusive with me. He told me to stop visiting him and stop seeing him. I looked at him and said 'I love you so much, I am addicted to you, I will call you and love you until the end of my days, so NO I will not stop calling you because I love you so. I remember the complete change in his face and body and how he said to me 'I have no idea why or how the mean words come out of my mouth' I love you so much..That is my prayer for YOU, that Josh does not mean the ugly words, that they just form out of frustration, and that soon he will tell you that he does not know why the ugly words come but that he loves you. This is my deepest prayer, also for him to let go of the abuse. Amen.
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
Josh and I had some conversation after I got home from work yesterday. He wasn't scary or violent but he kept repeating the same track he gets on about helping him (or how we didn't help him when we said we would, moved too much, etc. etc.) I told him that he was free to leave any time and that if he was not happy here or refused to get along with us, we would buy him a ticket back to Denver. If he is going to stay here, and I hoped he would, he would need to be respectful. We kind of went "round and round." Finally, we both just walked away for a few minutes. I went back to him after a few minutes and as I started to say something, he kind of apologized and said, "I don't mean to seem ungrateful. I just need to figure out how to move forward and get out of here." I said, "The thought of you going back to Denver, with nowhere to go, being on the street, would break our hearts. We don't want to do that. So I am begging you to please make this work." Then I had to leave again for a period of time for a commitment, just before my husband got home.

I came home a couple of hours later, not knowing what to expect, because things had been pretty tense between my husband and Josh the night before, and I had texted my husband to say "I don't think this is going to work." Anyway, I walked in and they were both sitting at the table, talking normally, about football. Josh was pleasant and we had normal conversation at dinner. He stayed upstairs with us for a while, shared some YouTube videos he was watching, etc. It was eerie the way things were "normal" after so long of the other behavior.
Anyway, I'm not deluded into thinking all is well or anything. I don't know how long he will be here, but we got through the evening okay. I just wish he could find a job while he's here. We are moving out of state in mid-May so it will be pretty tough for him being here with no job, no car, nothing to do.

We didn't really think through this decision; we just kind of reacted. Just getting him off the street was the main focus the other night. Not sure what will happen or how this will play out, but I'll continue to post. I did check with the courthouse yesterday on how to do a mental health commitment and so I know what to do if he should become threatening or violent toward us.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
A little off topic, but be careful of any promises he may give you. I learned with Kay is that words are cheap. She made many promises and did not follow through. Now I don't trust anyones words. I go 100 percent by actions only. Actions are not cheap. Actions need to be performed. Words are often just salad to please or confuse us and the person has no intention of following up. Until I see, I don't give words credence.

Kay has cried and promised to get a job. One time she made ME feel like a big bully. She got down on her knees and literally said "I promise to get a job! What do I have to do to get you to believe me? Shall I kiss your feet because I will do that if it will convince you that I am sincere!"

We were both crying then I pulled her up and we hugged.


Well, after that performance she still never got a job. Never even looked. She is quite the actor.

So I only watch what people DO and that is my proof. Words.....bah.

Love and prayers and good luck!
 
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Acacia

Active Member
His hostile, angry behavior is puzzling to me.
I'm thinking maybe I've been the "delusional" one here--thinking that showing love and care for him would soften his heart and relieve some of the anger and bitterness toward us.
My heart goes out to you. This is so familiar to me - it could be my 34 year old son you are talking about.

I wanted so badly to heal my relationship with my son. I have not allowed him to move in, but nearly every time I opened the door to him by inviting him to a meal, to visit, etc., he turned hostile very quickly and blamed me for his unacceptable behavior. My son is full of resentments and anger. No amount of love, generosity, etc. on my part has softened him.

I don't know why, when, how, or if he will ever change. I echo Busy's words that promises and words are cheap. Yes, it breaks my heart when I see him suffer the consequences of his continued bad choices. What I do know is that I that I will not allow my son to be abusive to me, which means at least for now, I have little to no contact with him.

Love your son, but love and protect yourself as much as you would him.
 
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