More oddities

Nomad

Well-Known Member
If you read my other thread, you know that we had TG at our home with a rather large gathering.

It was largely family with some friends of family mixed in there....it made for a large group and a rather diverse / eclectic array of people...to say the least. Some of these folks have oddball issues of jealousy, low self esteem, insecurities, weak social skills...and of course, some are much better. As a side note: Some of nicest folks were the ones more distant in the family and their friends.

Everyone brought at least one food item, but since it was at our home, we did most of the cooking...and of course, all of the set up. I did my best to make it super cute for TG, with lots of related decorations and fall colors. One person in particular, helped a lot.

Ok, the crux of the question. At some point, someone said "Let's get a group photo." People were slowly moving toward the living room. My husband did not hear until the very last minute. I did hear, but ran into the nearby bedroom and put on my lipstick...a horrible error in judgment and in retrospect, stupid. I believe I was only one minute gone. The bedroom is next to the living room. I suppose I thought in retrospect, if somehow all those folks made it to the living room faster than I could put on my lipstick, they would call me in (and maybe chastise me) before they took the photo since it was my/our home.

As I was entering the living room from one side, I saw my husband entering the living room from the opposite end. We literally had our feet INTO the living room. All of a sudden we both heard the camera "click." The photo was taken and the crowd dispersed. The person who took the photo, sat down and quickly sent it to a person in the group who tends to do all the FB type postings. (If it isn't on FB, did it happen? Maybe NOT! LOLOL) I wasn't in the photo, nor was my husband, nor was the person my husband was speaking to and there were a few other missing people. The person who took the photo got in his immediate family .

Shortly afterward, my husband managed to get a separate photo of us and our immediate family that was also used together with the other one.

I didn't say a word, because I was embarrassed that I left for that quick moment....in retrospect, I simply should not of done that. I DO think they should of called me though. We are only talking about seconds. If it were me and I was in that situation, I definitely would of called the host to be in the photo. My husband was very upset and bewildered. By the time he came to see what was going on in the living room, the photo was taken.

NOT ONE PERSON stopped to say let's get Mr and Mrs Nomad in the picture. Not one person said "Let's take another photo so Mr and Mrs Nomad can be in the picture." Not one person asked if we would like another photo taken.

Again, I would of said something, but I was embarrassed. But, it still felt weird as heck. I'm glad we got a very nice separate family photo and honestly, it worked out very well.

Obviously, I think tooooo much. But, what the heck is this? We sometimes think these folks are clueless. Classless, thoughless, etc. Yes, I think I might call it clueless and thoughtless.

Any thoughts?

PS Due to privacy issues, I may ask that this post be removed in part or in its entirety.
 

ForeverSpring

Well-Known Member
Nomad, this is why I hate FB. And I hate the word hate (lol) but I guess its okay to hate FB since its not a living thing.

I always thought of it as a way people use to paint their own constant "See How Perfect We Are" fake family online portrait. Like those old Perfect Family Christmas letters that came with he card and sent good news only. Hated them too.

Apparently the immediate need of the photographer ito put up a FB photo superceded the nicety of making sure the hosts were there.

i also call these photos the "I Am Popular" photos.

I think they were thinking more about a juicy family picture that nobody cares about but the family than seeing who was there to partake in it. Honestly Nomad I wouldnt even have wanted to be in the picture. I have to be in my daughters wedding pictures and I dread it. And I look really good especially for my age. Thats not it.

I personally feel these people were rude but does it really matter in the grand scheme of life?

I dont check FB. I get very bored with brag pictures so.I dont look at any. Seriously. Why do I care how little Tommy looks on his first day of school? Trust me, I am not the only one who yawns.

I am sorry they didnt wait for you and husband. I am sure the pictures with your family are far more beautiful and meaningful to you and yours than a big group of little dot faces. Put it down to the rudeness it was and carry on :)

Take care.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Not one person said "Let's take another photo so Mr and Mrs Nomad can be in the picture."
I know how this feels. This is like when M's sister told me (through him) to buy half a dozen Christmas gifts for adults and half a dozen Christmas gifts for kids, which I did, and then nobody gave me a gift!

This among other things is why I seriously distanced myself from his family.
But, what the heck is this? We sometimes think these folks are clueless.
You see. My sense is that it is not clueless. It is aggressive. I think that there are people whose motivations are to obliterate our face, our existence even, from the picture. And they may or may not be aware of this. But their motivations are not innocent. They are real. And that is why it hurts. On some level we know exactly what they mean.

Yes. I agree. One motivation might have been to curate photos to represent themselves well on facebook. But what is the effect, to obliterate and distance and omit your presence.

I am remembering now an instance of this when I was in graduate school where my best friend was very, very ambitious and self-serving. (I liked her very much, despite this.) She gave a presentation and I brought to this all kinds of refreshments such as cakes and cookies, and coffee.) And when it came time to eat, she said to the group: I have provided these refreshments, without any acknowledgement of my part. It was not that I cared about being acknowledged. What felt horrible was being erased.

I could spend all day recounting episodes in my life like this where somebody has taken credit for altruistic acts I have done, and just taken them over. Some of these were really important and huge, and everybody knew who did them (me) and still somebody else put their name on the actions. Even to me.
I guess its okay to hate FB since its not a living thing.

I always thought of it as a way people use to paint their own constant "See How Perfect We Are" fake family online portrait.
This is exactly so. It is really horribly sad when people have to create a fake life, in order to feel any power or to even feel as if they are alive.

But it doesn't excuse it. That ambitious woman friend, I called a few months ago, after many many years, maybe 35. I enjoyed speaking to her. She had lived her work life as a professor at a major Midwest University. After the call ended, I realized that she had asked not one question about me. What I had done with my career. How I felt as a woman, as a mother. Whether I was happy or not. How I felt about my life. For her it was all a one way street.

I mean. You guys know 10000x more about who I am as a person not only in my heart but in my life, than this flesh and blood woman in my flesh and blood life. She was indifferent. It was all about her.

I was not sad. But my eyes were opened. There are people for whom only themselves exist. They are the only people who exist in their worlds. I mean. In some way we are all like this. But hopefully we are able to sometimes share our world.

So. In this way of looking at things, it is not that you Nomad are important. It is that you don't exist for these people. It is not personal. Any other Nomad would have been extraneous, too. Think about the mafia. It's not personal. When you are whacked. Anybody else would have whacked, too, if they did not know their place. I mean. This is not fully fair of me. With this family they were the picture. Nobody else was.

Now. I cannot end this without talking about my sister. My sister has been on a lifelong quest to eliminate me from the photo (to kind of purge me from the whole story.) And then she stole all of the real baby photos, so that she could really control the story. I don't know if she literally threw all of me out, (or put pins in me), but it is greatly painful to me...that this happened. I always hate it when I think of this. But I have to work it through.
 
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ForeverSpring

Well-Known Member
Lol Copa.

One day my "family" FBs came up on my now deleted FB as potential friends lol. I thought they had all blocked me. On a very very rare time I bothered to look, I scrolled through my brothers FB out of a moment curiousity. I dont k ow why I picked his. Maybe it was the first one I saw.

Guess what I found? He had young pictures of himself and my sister and I think it was my father (could have been my mother or grandma...I forget) and baby sister was obviously holding a hand (or could have been brother) but the last person was cut out of the FB picture. The person was me.

That didnt upset me. I think I laughed and showed my husband who shook his head and probably added how weird my family of origin is. But that was it.

They can cut us out of pictures but we still exist and move on and had these family relationships. I was still there when the picture was taken (shrug).

This is one reason why I probably wont check FB or as I call it Fake Book again. That was the last time I looked and only because the FB had come to ME.

I dont think I CAN look anymore as I deleted FB. Im not interested enough to check it out. I never was into it.

Copa regardless of people's symbolism with FB I dont give it much power. As long as those I dont want in my life no longer are in it, I dont care about if I am acknowledged or not on their Fake Book pages.

Copa your sister is a nasty piece of work. Who cares what she symbollically did with those pictures? You still exist and are wonderful.

At my most frustrated, my 30s I think, I threw out all my family pictures except a few of me and my grandmother. But the people whose pictures I no longer have still exist....doing whatever they do. The deceased ones still were here.

As long as I dont have to see or talk to people I dont want to see, I dont care what they do. They cant hurt me anymore.

Copa be glad your nasty sister is gone.

As for FB mean girls (or mean boys) symbolism...I think its good to choose your battles over which issues will bother us. For me FB is lower than my worry about somebody elses nasty bathroom.

Give me a good book, my dogs, my family of choice, a nature walk and my wonderful volunteer friends and I am good. I refuse to let nasty pettiness ruin my life. FB is petty to me even when the poster is mean. I cant be wiped out nor can you.

Haha, meanies!!
 
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RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
I also think it was rude.

I also think that is why many people don't invite so many to their home for holidays. I know hosting a big group is a LOT of work - even if they bring a dish. Big deal!

I know that I'm usually totally exhausted and don't enjoy the company much anyway because I'm running like a chicken with my head cut off! Once they leave I'm like gee I didn't even talk to so and so.

Your a very gracious host and they at least should have gotten you in the photo. I probably would limit the guest list in the future so YOU and HUBBY can enjoy it more!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I know that I'm usually totally exhausted and don't enjoy the company much
I do not entertain but I love to do so. I don't mind the work, but I would very much have reacted the same as you Nomad. I would have found these people insufferable and I agree with RN, that this was extreme rudeness.

But the thing is this: This is them. It really has nothing to do with you. They are so very insecure that they have to star in their own movie with every single thing they do. It is very, very sad.

I think the key here, for me, at least is to not take on the limits of others. Which includes my sister. But it is too late for my own family.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
Wow...you guys think a lot about this stuff. I wouldn't have thought anything at all of not being in that photo and I wouldn't have read anything at all into it. I'd have been relieved that I missed having my photo taken. In fact, I'd likely to have insisted on being the one who took the photo so I could avoid being in it - I hate how I look in photos.

Please don't think that I'm making light of your feelings. I think it's interesting, the way people react so differently to different things. I'm sure it is due to difference in upbringing. I know, for instance, that mine was really very quiet and peachy compared to most of the people I know. Which isn't to say I don't have insecurities. I have a ton. I tend to feel very awkward and boring, especially in large groups of people. But while other people tend to take things personally, I usually let small slights just side off, if I notice them at all. I'm rather oblivious to all but the most blatant of insults. It's a rather peaceful way to be. For instance in many weight watcher type groups I've been in, there are always people going on about how someone stared at them while they were eating or refused to help them when they were shopping or mooed (yes, mooed) when they walked by. Well if it happened to them it probably has happened to me...but I've never noticed anything like that. (Okay...I'd have definitely noticed mooing if that had happened.)

I also tend to think the best of people. I tend to never assume an evil intent if it can be chalked up to ignorance. In this case, though it came across as rude, I assume they were probably thoughtless (which I suppose IS rudeness) or just thought, since you left the room, that you didn't want to be in the photo. Saying, "Oh! There you are! Let's take another!" would have been the polite thing for them to say. But I'd guess if you asked any of them, they'd say, "Well we said we were going to take the photo. We assumed if anyone wanted in, they would have been there." Thoughtless...but not intentionally rude.

But, that's me.
 

ForeverSpring

Well-Known Member
Lil I would have been glad not to be in it lol. My wedding pictures will be the most pictures my kids will have of me and husband isntbig on photos either. Actually I have to bribe my kids for pictures too.

However I assume these people know enough about the Nomad family and would be aware that they would want to be invited into the picture so, with their knowlege, I would consider this rude.
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Lil

Yes I can see that side too. They probably didn't THINK much of it because in truth, many people HATE getting their picture taken!!
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't have thought anything at all of not being in that photo and I wouldn't have read anything at all into it.
I usually let small slights just side off, if I notice them at all.
This is so healthy, Lil.

But then if I remember correctly you were an only child with loving parents. And from everything you write your temperament is direct but easy going. Not everybody was raised in such a family or has such a g-d given temperament.
Okay...I'd have definitely noticed mooing if that had happened.
This makes me laugh. I can feel the pain of it. Over 30 years ago a kid at the beach referred to me as pregnant when I must have been size 10 and no more than 135 lbs. It wounded me to the core. Which is really the point you make. Why in life would I allow myself to be defined by a stupid idiot thoughtless kid.
I also tend to think the best of people.
I tend to never assume an evil intent if it can be chalked up to ignorance.
And this is the other excellent point you make. Is our attitudes towards the motivations of others, which we control. We have broad leeway in how we interpret the underlying thoughts of others...which we project...from our own insecurities and assumptions about life. Witness my own use of the intention to obliterate, to stick pins in me, to kill me off.... Which exist only in me. I have projected these thoughts, when others are only flawed or unthinking humans.
Saying, "Oh! There you are! Let's take another!"
And your final point is the best of all! The motivation to and skill to remedy conflict, and to mend together the group. Which is always possible and available if we remember. Not only does there not have to be conflict, when there is the risk of it, we can jump in and save us all; like a rescue net. Every mistake does not mean the bottom has to drop off. We can come to the rescue. Thank you Lil. Brilliant post.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Thank you for these great replies.
It’s possible that some don’t like their photos taken, so it’s not a big deal. I tried to get one of the entire table. Of course, I wasn’t in it.

This photo was viewed as a group /commemorative photo, so it seemed appropriate that the hosts would be in it. At least ask if we would like to be in it. It seemed impolite to me to not ask.

Yes, it was a lot of work.

COPA...is it possible that M’s sister views you and M as wealthier than most others in the family and for this reason you are suppose to buy all these presents but no one has to concern themselves with getting anything for you?

I get this creepy vibe from some of these relatives (who by the way really are relatives of my daughter in law) that some feel like I’m better off then them so I’m either 1.showing off or 2. They don’t have to thank me. Not a grateful vibe from many of these people.

If you recall, I have often noted that many of our d. C. Children show a profound lack of gratefulness even if you go overboard trying to be helpful.
 

ForeverSpring

Well-Known Member
Im curious.

Why do you host your daughter in law's family?

For us, we have our family and their family holidays. Not together. I wouldnt want to host or attend anything if I didnt know the people well but Im shy with strangers. Very uncomfortable unless I know everyone well.

I was wondering why your daughter in law's friends were at your house.

We always make our holidays a few days different from the actual holidays so that all of us can be together and nobody has to worry about splitting time with two families. But we never have our family mixed with the other one. Never thought of it actually...

Copa if thats what M's family thinks, it is really rude. You can still receive hand made or cute but not pricey gifts of appreciation. Nobody should feel left out.

Like you I tend to be sensitive if I think I am being left out but in a picture.....im not sure Id care. But in general, probably due to having been left out a lot, I draw wrong conclusions too.
 
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Lil

Well-Known Member
But then if I remember correctly you were an only child with loving parents.
I have one older brother. We don't dislike each other, but we talk like 3 times a year even though he lives and works minutes away. Just...not a ton in common. Love him though.

And from everything you write your temperament is direct but easy going.
If @Jabberwockey reads this, I suspect this will be his response:
:rofl:
My temper is...somewhat less than sweet.
:919Mad::overreactsmiley::tantrumsmiley:
Yeah...my kid got that temper honestly. He just never learned to control it.
 

Lil

Well-Known Member
This photo was viewed as a group /commemorative photo, so it seemed appropriate that the hosts would be in it. At least ask if we would like to be in it. It seemed impolite to me to not ask.
I agree it was impolite. I just would assume that it wasn't an intentional slight.

At least until you said this:

I get this creepy vibe from some of these relatives (who by the way really are relatives of my daughter in law) that some feel like I’m better off then them so I’m either 1.showing off or 2. They don’t have to thank me.
My brother dropped the bomb on me once that his mother and father in law didn't like me. I was SO upset! I never did a single thing to those people. In fact, I went to Christmas at his house one year, I believe just after my father passed, and I bought them a gift because I knew they'd be there even though I'd only met them at my brother's wedding! He told me they were "intimidated" by me. WTH? ME? Even thinking about it now, I'm just floored that anyone would feel that way. I tend to think of myself as really nice.

So yeah...it could have been intentional. But as I decided about the in-laws...that's their problem, not yours. You didn't do anything wrong and I would stop inviting them if they act like that.

We always make our holidays a few days different from the actual holidays so that all of us can be together and nobody has to worry about splitting time with two families. But we never have our family mixed with the other one. Never thought of it actually...
Us too. In fact, we're going to Jabber's family Thanksgiving tomorrow. And while my in-laws have been known to invite their ex son-in-law and his new wife when his kids are in town alone (that is to say, without their mom) this will be only the Jabberwockey clan.
 
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Nomad

Well-Known Member
There are two sisters. Their parents have a small home and theY (mostly the mother, I think) doesn’t like to entertain at all. Nada.

My daughter in law and son have a small home and a small baby right now. They entertain this large group on occasion, but right now in particular it would be very hard.

Two of us have average + size homes. Not gigantic , but big enough to make it more do-able. So, we tend to halve many things at her home or mine.

My daughter in law’s mother interestingly enough, is never a host; yet it’s her two daughters that prefer to keep everyone together. The two daughters try to have things at their homes at least now and again. My daughter in law’s mother will reluctantly bring a few items to an event. She is not gracious about it at all.

My son is thrilled that we moved nearby and can host. Normally, I do enjoy such things. I didn’t do it often back from our original city, but when I did, even if pooped afterwards, I always felt great. When I do these events...I feel just plain weird and sometimes worse afterwards. I’m so confused.
 
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Nomad

Well-Known Member
Lil...Bingo!
I think it’s something along these lines.

I tend to be “different.” Results oriented. Goal oriented. Even with health issues up the wazoo. Normally, I’d probably have my weight under control too...but the prednisone did me in and things aren’t ideal in that dept. but, I’m trying and slowly improving. All I’m saying is that I try my best in all things and it often shows.

(I mentioned the weight because I heard a few of the thinner relatives implied hubby and I were chubby...good grief!)

Some of these folks simply don’t try their best all the time or in multiple ways. I don’t judge. I don’t care. We all have our priorities. Strengths , weaknesses, different interests. I simply don’t care.

I should add, they all have their strengths and talents. But, sadly , much insecurity too.

But, for some in this world, if you try your best, have some nice things (nice hair cut, blouse, lipstick, new chair) WHATEVER...this sends them in some sort of tizzy.

It bugs me that my daughter in law is very and unusually familiar with “mean girl” behavior. I’m not really. If girls were mean to me in HS or college, I avoided them like the plaque. I’m concerned she might be extra familiar because some of it might be coming from her own family. (Although I don’t truly see her this way. She has a good heart).
 
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ForeverSpring

Well-Known Member
Nomad, it is gracious and kind of you to take on the responsibility of hosting all these affairs. Do you feel like they appreciate it or do you feel they take advantage of you? Do they help with the cost, prep, clean up?

I never heard of a mom that refused to host. I mean, she can cater in if she doesnt like to cook.

Something is wrong about your doing all of this. I honestly dont think anyone should expect it, even your son, if its not fun for you or appreciated by the others.

Families manage to have holidays in apartments and small houses. How many of these guests are YOUR family and how many arent?

If it doesnt feel right, something isnt right.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
COPA...is it possible that M’s sister views you and M as wealthier
Yes. This is it in a nutshell. I am the one who is perceived to have the assets. And they have always perceived M as responsible for taking care of them. They believe they owe him nothing, not even respect. And they have demonstrated that everything that I have, they feel is rightfully theirs. And if I don't share, they will take, or act out against me. So yes.
that some feel like I’m better off then them so I’m either 1.showing off or 2. They don’t have to thank me. Not a grateful vibe from many of these people.
Yes. See above. If I do not give them what I have as they want it, there is resentment that comes out in various passive aggressive ways.
My brother dropped the bomb on me once that his mother and father in law didn't like me.
Whaaat? I am certain I am disliked. And I am very likeable (smile.)
He told me they were "intimidated" by me.
We're barking up the same tree. Except in my case, they would lose the intimidation if I just never said no, and let them run me over. In Nomad's case it seems like some of the same thing is going on. That they want her hospitality, but she needs to remember her place (in her house--which is out of the photo.)
our original city, but when I did, even if pooped afterwards, I always felt great. When I do these events...I feel just plain weird and sometimes worse afterwards.
That's me. I love to entertain. When I can feel rewarded. But to be used? And excluded. And disrespected to boot? No.
I heard a few of the thinner relatives implied hubby and I were chubby...good grief!
Whaat???? I am stunned by this. Purely stunned. In your own home. When they are eating your food? Forgetaboutit. These people are so over.
daughter in law is very and unusually familiar with “mean girl” behavior.
Nomad. I don't know what you are saying with this paragraph. Are you saying that daughter in law can be mean? Do you think she is part of this?
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
That jealousy thing is hard to cope with. It’s irrational. The chubby reference was not in my home or at TG. It was before. But...

No, daughter in law is not mean.

But, over the years we have talked about how girls can do mean things to one another. Speak unkindly. Make someone feel bad. Jealousy. Gaslighting. Ignoring. Snobbery.

Interestingly, she even likes the movie of the same name.

One day I said something like “Geez, I am not familiar with all this ugly behavior amongst women. I did not experience much of this in HS or college.”

(I simply ignored / avoided girls like this)

She said something unusual like “I experienced a lot of this in school. I especially saw it with my sister’s Friends. It’s very common in my home town.”

I worry it might be common in her own family.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I worry it might be common in her own family.
Nomad. I really think Lil's post was brilliant. How she chooses to NOT GO THERE. She assumes that people's motivations are good, and even when there is doubt she takes the position that right in the moment the break can be mended by not over-reacting, with positive words and steps.

What I have learned from this thread is this: People can be hurtful, obtuse, or self-centered, for sure. But I don't have to be their victim. With his family, my problem is partly M. He has not reacted well, when I have spoken up for myself.

What am I supposed to do? He has left me with the option either of shutting up, or not being around his family. I chose the latter. But this is really too bad.

I think the difficult situations I could have handled if I had not personalized them. The problem really was not me, or mine to carry. I think there could have been graceful comments I could have made to both protect myself and to not accept bad treatment. (Maybe I should bring Lil with me.)
 
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