Remember Those Behavior Goals I Was Supposed to Write...?

[DaisyFace]

Well, that was about two weeks ago...

I finally heard back from caseworker TODAY. She wanted to discuss the goals I had written...

Specifically, she had a problem with "difficult child will refrain from hurting her family members each day." Caseworker felt this goal was too "lofty" - too high a standard.

She felt it should be changed to "difficult child will refrain from hurting any family members for 6 out of 7 days."



Um....what?

So I asked her "So, you mean that if difficult child goes for six days without touching her brother....and then on the seventh day she beats the tar out of him - she still earns her reward?"

Even caseworker had to admit that it sounded pretty stupid when you put it like that...

BUT, she explained...you need to look at it as an improvement. It's improving the level of violence in the home.

"Oh" I said. "So what level of violence should be acceptable? Somebody is bloody once a week? Once a month?"

Well....no violence is really acceptable - but remember, our goal is improvement.

"Well, what do you do for the kids that are getting abused? Do you ever do anything to help the kids that are getting beat up?"

"Well, sure" caseworker explained...

"If it's a real problem."



Oh, I understand now. We only worry about kids getting beat up by their siblings if it's a PROBLEM.

Other than that - I guess it's OK.

I can't wait to get started on that Behavior Chart!

 

[AnnieO]

How would the caseworker feel about spending a couple of months with difficult child and her behavior chart?

 

[Shari]

I don't even have a response...

 

[DDD]

I hate to be redundant...but...Good Grief! DDD

 

[InsaneCdn]

Counter-offer time! The goal as stated is too far to reach (I'm going to agree with the caseworker here) - so rather than measuring days with "no" violence... try ratchetting down the violence - first goal: can't draw blood, break bones, or damage sight/hearing... as in, the "big stuff". In other words, difficult child has to slow down just enough to MEASURE the violence. Its takes both self-awareness and self-control.

If you can get THAT far, the rest of the goal becomes reachable (in steps) until you get down to verbal.

We spent too long trying to cross the chasm in leaps, and dealing with continual crashes. Instead, you have to build bridges so they can cross one step at a time.

One more hint - no more than THREE goals. Really. They can't deal with more than that at a time. THREE of anything in the goals/rules/controls catagory. When one gets reached, it becomes an "expectation" (intermittent rewards), and a new goal gets added.

 

[AnnieO]

Insane... In this case??? The behavior chart has been tried. Over and over. DF's difficult child won't play. Normally, you'd have a great idea there - but you did say it all - "If you can get THAT far"...

 

[InsaneCdn]

OK, so maybe my insane household isn't quite as insane as some of you...
BUT - mine won't "play" either. The goals are not for difficult child, its for US.
Helps keep US, and other professionals, and school, on the same page - manage expectations, reduce tendency to overload/overwhelm difficult child, etc.
Whether the "chart" works or not, you still need "goals".
Chart no workie? try something else. (we've never had to go to chart, so... maybe someone else has ideas?)

 

[KTMom91]

That caseworker is an idiot. Glad you called her on it, DF.

 

[DaisyFace]

The goal as stated is too far to reach (I'm going to agree with the caseworker here) - so rather than measuring days with "no" violence... try ratchetting down the violence - first goal: can't draw blood, break bones, or damage sight/hearing... as in, the "big stuff".

Insane--

I know you're a newer member and may or may not have read a lot of our story...

I am completely unwilling to allow DS to be victimized by his older (and larger) sister to the point where we are "rewarding" her because she only 'bruised' him. Next time I see him bleeding at her hands? I am calling police and pressing charges.

Right now, we are having a huge problem with the constant bullying and intimidation. The pinching, tripping, pushing, squeezing, shoving, poking, throwing things at, "accidentally" hitting, "accidentally" closing doors on his fingers....you get the idea. It HAS to STOP.

And the idea that if I put a Smiley Face sticker on a chart that will make it all better is so ridiculous I could just cry...

 

[Shari]

To add to Df's explanation? She's been thru I don't know how many "experts" and they've written similar "goals" and "charts" for showing progress I don't know how many times. Enough that the rest of us giggle when she mentions behavior chart, anyway. Yeah, right.

I get that it keeps the parents/school/etc on the same page, but problem is, each time a new "expert" gets involved with Df's difficult child, they have all the answers, never mind the previous three "experts" did the exact same thing to no avail.

That junk gets OLD.

 

[InsaneCdn]

1) agree - I'm not up on the history here...
2) agree - putting a smiley face on a chart is BEYOND USELESS (along with 100 other approaches)
3) agree - pressing charges might be part of the solution - sometimes external consequences are what it takes, but no guarantee here either

In some ways, the bigger issue isn't difficult child but DS - how to keep HIM safe.

 

[AnnieO]

Hmm... Yes.

DF? One for you and your husband.

DF and DY will remove DS from difficult child's reach when difficult child looks like she *might* be considering hurting DS.
DF and husband will call the police 10 times out of 10 when difficult child hurts DS.

Hmm. Nope. I just wanna take your caseworker and slam her fingers in the door a few times... "Trip" over her... "Accidentally" elbow her...

 

[Shari]

And PS - DF, take DS riding on that pony with you, and to hades with how it might make difficult child feel. I know, that's cold, but dangit...in the infamous words of one of our fearless leaders - "DO TO GET".

Until then, no guilt.

 

[Star*]

Okay - Agree with her. Hear me out.

Agree with her and write it up HER way.

daughter will refrain from using violence 6 out of 7 days a week.**

**(footnote) two or more incidents in a one month period of physically harming another family member will result in immediate out of home placement at CCH in Columbia, SC or at( Blah blah blah in XX) in the High Managment, Girls dormatory, locked facility, temporary de-escalation program for a period of no less than 90 days, pre-approved by Ms. Caseworkers name. Bed to be held open on an on-call basis.

If she balks at that? Then I'd tell her SHE isn't being very realistic because these goals were taken directly from another State caseworkers file from another client who was violent.

 

[Marguerite]

DaisyFace, I agree that InsaneCdn didn't know the full story when she first posted. BUT I think she has something you could use. Or modify.

I agree, it is totally unacceptable to 'allow' or reward ANY level of violence towards an individual. The "six days out of seven" approach - I would threaten the caseworker with calling CPS on them for even suggesting that a kid be rewarded for beating up on her brother only one day out of seven. But they want to use some form of intermediate stage, and possibly there could be something in making it the level of violence rather than the quantity. Of course we know tis is purely an intellectual exercise - OUR aim is to get across to this idiot caseworker, that what she is asking it totally unreasonable and inhumane. But the way to do this is to cooperate reasonably, where remotely possible. Make GOOD suggestions (or at least better ones than the idiot is suggesting).

How about (just throwing it out there) - rewarding her for not making physical contact with anybody during her rages? In other words, we know she will act out with aggression, but if it is all display and non-contact, it is an improvement.

But there has to be zero tolerance for physical violence on another human being. No "reward charts" can be used here that allow "6 days out of 7". Ask caseworker what she would do if, during one of her sessions with difficult child, the girl tried to throttle her or blacked her eye. Would she press charges? Would her family and friends urge her to press charges? What would she do?

Then ask her why anybody else should be accepting more beatings than she is. You have reached the level of zero tolerance, because that is the line in the sand that must be drawn. She has no right to ask you to relax it to unacceptable levels that allow harm to another individual. Nobody has the rigt to accept an increased level of harm to anybody but themselves. If YOU choose to allow "6 days out of 7" where it related to violence done to you personally, that is YOUR choice for YOU. Nobody should ever make such a call for another person, let alone a child who is smaller, younger and already traumatised.

This idiot caseworker needs a wake-up call and a threat to ask CPS for their opinion of such a caseworker could do the trick.

But in the meantime - a compromise on "If she does not make physical contact at all (dump the "6 days out of 7" entirely, it is counterproductive and says, "at some level, this is OK") then she can earn some level of reward" might be accepted by this idiot. But frankly, although I am not usually in favour of punishment, someone deliberately hurting another individual is in my mind a punishment issue. The punishment has to fit the crime, though. Removing TV privileges, for example, for someone attacking another person doesn't have anything to do with the attack. It needs to be relevant. A far more relevant (and natural) consequence is, not being allowed to be alone with anybody vulnerable. Curtailment of freedom (no sleepovers, no going to the mall, no friends over - social isolation because the attacker clearly cannot be trusted in social situations).

I'm not suggesting you propose this to idiot caseworker; she is reward-focussed. But keep it in mind for when idiot caseworker either wakes up or gets removed.

Marg

 

[HaoZi]

I do have a response on case worker's chart, but I think the censor would blow up if I attempted to post it. I do like the ideas above combining the no physical violence during outbursts (to include someone getting hit with thrown objects, etc) mixed with Star's approach.

 

[Marguerite]

Sometimes the idiotic and crazy ideas are unworkable, but can lead you to something more practical.

Marg

 

[Steely]

I HATE behavior charts. PERIOD. Not ONE, regardless of verbiage has EVER worked for Matt!
Boo to this whole thing.
So, so sorry.

 

[Star*]

Somewhere in between what I suggested and what Marg suggested is a good something -

But I'd add HaoZis - And kick this womans can can's to the curb curb

In all honesty though? I'm with Steely - Behavior charts have NEVER worked for Dude either. But you have to play their game - that's why we wrote in OUR version of - okay we'll play it your way and when we DO it your way and it ALL GOES SOUTH like we know it will (but we kept our foot in the door) THEN YOU PLAY IT OUR Way AND get this KID SOME SERIOUS HELP, AND GIVE THE PARENTS A MUCH NEEDED BREAK YOU bumbling bunch of banded baboons.

 

[HaoZi]

No insulting the baboons now, they're vicious and smarter than they look!