Therapist for DC2

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by WiseChoices, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    DC2 saw a therapist for 3+ years and got worse , not better .This th. saw DC1, DC2 and myself all during the same time in individual sessions. She is a LSW, not psychologist. After a while, I saw triangulation happening : she would tell me things my children confided in therapy to her .I figured it must run both ways then. At one point I told her specifically not to disclose something to my daughter and she did. When I confronted her, she apologized and said "she forgot". I stopped seeing her shortly after that.

    DC2 is very attached to this th. Th. would just let her wallow in her self pity for years, there were few productive suggestions on how to not self injure, I asked for a contract to be made for suicide protocol and it never happened. Daughter sold this th. on her being bipolar when I knew she wasnt and knew what DC2 was doing .

    When th. said was no longer taking our insurance, I told kids they could not use her anymore . A few months after that, th. Texted and said she was still on insurance, but husband and I had decided we did not want to use her anymore. We are switching insurance in Oct and th. is on new insurance .DC2 asks about her every now and then and I lied and said she is not on new plan. Daughter asked again tonight and wanted to know if I was sure . Said she did not believe me.

    Another thing is that th. can't handle the billing and I had to bill our ins company myself and her record keeping was all screwed up, so I received a bill for DC2 and myself for over $1000 each, and I had to go through all the claims and prove to her that they had already been paid .I really don't want to do all this billing and reconciliation as all other therapists do it themselves. So I mentioned to DC2 that I don't want to do the billing , either.

    And she looks at me quizzically, and asks if there is somethibg else going on and that she doesnt believe me. And I get scared of her anger and her emotional punishment.

    So if it comes up again, what do I say? What if she finds out that I lied? She could technically text the th. and ask her what ins she takes .
  2. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    My first suggestion is to never see the same therapist as a family member. My second is to not ever talk to this th again for any reason. But....and this just makes sense to me....

    If your daughter wants to see her as her th I would not try to stop her. Th sounds horrible, but maybe your daughter gets something out of it. in my opinion it is not our choice what therapists our adult kids see, but we certainly don't have to go to that therapist or pay the co-payment. Your daughter can do that.

    To be fair, you can't dictate to her therapist what to do. No therapist will allow you to be in charge of an adult child's therapy. I also had a friend who cut and she went to therapy and it took her years to quit. She told me "its very addictive and really hard to stop."

    Self harm is certainly a part of conditions like bipolar or more commonly borderline. My friend definitely was very depressed and was on an antidepressant. It is jot normal behavior to self harm. But it can be helped as can bipolarband borderline with therapy and sometimes medication.

    Th broke the HIPPA law telling your daughter anything you told her. For yourself, I would never ever see her again.

    Be well.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  3. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I think you need to stop lying to her. To let her make her own decisions about therapy. I think you have more to lose than gain by trying to control the situation. I would (try to) butt out of it. Let the two of them deal with it. Why are you involved in the financial aspects? While your daughter must be a dependent on your insurance, is she still your dependent financially, that is are you still responsible for her debts?

    If you can, let the two of them deal with it. The therapist and your daughter, if that is what she wants.

    I agree with Busy. I would NOT again see this therapist.

    PS I saw a therapist for many more years than did daughter, and never got better. I paid him a fortune, and would not stop, until I stopped. If insurance is paying it, don't get involved. If there is a co-pay insist that daughter pay for it. If she chooses not to, that is her choice.
  4. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    As far as the lie, I would just start telling the truth. With all of the changes in the insurance, and the therapist coming up with new information, it is confusing. Leave it at that. Tell daughter, the therapist is on the insurance after all, that she can make her own decision, but is responsible for any cost.

    I would NOT confess. Your daughter would not be served by that. Just give her correct information and let her handle it. That's what I suggest.
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  5. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you both!
  6. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    Both your children are adults. You are not responsible for the copays...unless you are the legal guardian.

    Since the therapist did drop your insurance once, and the billing was a pain, I think you can say "if she ever becomes a preferred client, and you wish to see her, I won't be paying copays or handle the billing for insurance."

    I know it's easier for a patient to go back to someone they have a history with. I try to tell my daughter to think of one or two issues to bring up/work on, instead of rehashing old hurts.
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  7. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Copa, daughter is completely financially dependent on us .Full time student , has never worked despite therapist and us encouraging her to . She has applied and interviewed once but did not get the job. In all fairness, she had a job lined up at school for this semester, but due to her mental health, we decided together with her to have her commute this semester (2 hour drive twice a week) and not send her back to dorms.

    Insurance does pay, there is no copay, but Like I said , I have to do the billing and therapist has bad record keeping, so then I have to reconcile huge bills she sends me and I am not willing to do that anymore. So I guess I could tell DC2 that she would have to do the billing and reconciliation. We are responsible for what the insurance doesn't pay if they were to reject a claim. Billing them has been like pulling teeth.

    My husband is not willing to have this therapist make another dime off us. He is mad at this therapist for many reasons. He pays for our insurance and feels that even though we don't have a copay, he still is paying for services by paying the insurance.

    Therapist told us she believes in werewolves , ghosts etc. My husband came with us once for a family session and when daughter told her tale of being bi-polar , therapist asked me whether my husband was bipolar after only meeting him that one time. So I do have that issue if his unwillingness to pay to contend with also.
  8. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This therapist is pissing me off. Werewolves? Ghosts? Husband bipolar?

    If she cannot keep adequate records, forget about it.

    Okay. This is what I think.

    This is reminding me some of my son. Who wants total control and independence, but wants us to take total responsibility for when he falls short.

    I guess this is the reality of things. If your daughter is completely a dependent, financially, and she is not emancipating beyond going to college 2 days a week, then, you can look at it two ways. (Except I don't understand why you have any financial liability or responsibility, at her age.) One You could decide to let her have some responsibility to handle her choice of therapist, and what goes with it, including the financial arrangements, and then work with her to make a plan and implement it. The other way to look at this could be: you have the authority and right to make the decision about the therapist, given that you are controlling all of the money, and to you will accrue the liability if insurance and claims are screwed up. (But again, I don't see how this would be so. Unless you choose it.)

    Do you have the right (or basis) to veto the therapist? You can look at this two ways too. You are a family working together as a unit. Financially and socially and emotionally you are interconnected. Your daughter is depending upon you to organize her affairs, and to provide for her, it seems. I think you could argue that because you have been involved with the therapist, you need to feel confidence, and have the sense that you can communicate with and rely on her therapist. And you and her Dad don't feel this confidence. That for you this therapist has already proven herself to be somebody you don't trust. But then again, your daughter is an adult.

    The call is yours. You have the leverage, I think, to decide either way. Personally, if it were me I would try to move towards allowing her responsibility and autonomy.

    If it were me, I would tell daughter what I think and feel outright. I would decide upon what side I will come down--giving daughter more confidence to handle things--or not. And I would tell her outright exactly why.

    The therapist fouls up the billing. She believes in werewolves and ghosts. And I don't feel confident that she understands your issues, or how to help us as a family. Dad does not feel confidence in her. And I don't either. When you are independent and handle your own finances and arrangements you are free to choose somebody without our input. But because we have to be involved, we get a vote.

    And then live with the consequences. If that is what you choose.

    I think this is how you feel. If this is so. Then tell her outright. I would not lie to her. You have a right to have a say on things that impact upon you. If daughter is dependent upon you in every way, it can be argued she has to accept some guidance and some bottom line from you. It's up to you to decide how much.

    What you have explained to me, is that daughter's affairs are not separate from you nor do you believe at this time they are separable. Then that is a reality. Unless you want to separate them, and she wants to separate them, they remain intertwined. I would face that. And I would say it. Why should you have to twist yourself up into a pretzel lying to her, about reality?

    Unless you decide you want to change reality.
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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  9. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    But legally, your dtr is responsible for the bills that ins doesn't pay. I had the clinics where my daughters go to put them on their own accounts. Then I told both girls I would pay for 2 family dr Appts a year, 2 teeth cleanings, 1 OB/GYN (for birth control). And if they were serious about seeing a therapist... I would pay for once a month IF they were following through with what she tells them to do.

    That's pretty generous, I think. Our copays are $30. But, they both would make multiple office visits or walk in clinics for minor things, instead of trying common sense and OTC remedies. This slowed that down!

    Like taking antihistamine for seasonal allergies, or gargling with warm salt water for sore throats and taking ibuprofen. And when they do get real Rx, they never take them as directed! Such a waste of appointments, medicine, time and money.

    Aargh!! Ksm
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  10. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Copa, thank you so much! I read your post several times digesting the information. You are spot on: that is exactly how I feel. That because daughter has taken very few steps towards autonomy, we do have input. And you are right: I need to stop being afraid of her reactions and anger, and instead be honest about what is reality. We don't support the use of the therapist . When she supplies her own insurance , she is free to chose whomever she wants.

    You distilled it to exactly what I was feeling and couldn't express in a concise manner because I am always so conscientious about not being perceived as controlling . I am controlling and try to hide that character defect out of shame. But here, I do get input. Just like i expressed my opinion about school and commuting because those decisions directly involved me: I paid the $1000 fee to cancel the housing contract, I drive her, I pay the gas, and put the miles on my car. So I got a vote - either way.
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  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    My quote thing isn't working. I want to clarify one thing I wrote. I would NOT decide on a therapist for her. You can argue you have a veto. And you choose to veto this therapist. But I would not choose her therapist. I think this would be infantilizing to her. I believe you are served by giving her leeway to mature and to have freedom of choice, especially about something so personal as a therapist. If it were me, I would let her decide upon the next therapist. And not interfere unless there come to be real problems again. After all. What your goal is, I think, is an adult child who matures into a fully functional and autonomous person. By choosing her therapist I believe you would be undermining that.

    That's just what I think. I have a similar situation with my son, as you do with your daughter. My son's judgement is poor. I want to control the situation. But I also want him to at some point be functional and autonomous, and to make good choices. After all, I will die at some point. It does not benefit him or me, if I micro manage. Better he make mistakes and learn from them. Even if I suffer in the process.

    I believe your daughter (and you) are served by giving her freedom of choice.
  12. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    I really, really agree with Copa. As long as you pay, and only if you pay, it is okay to not want to deal with this particular therapist who you have had trouble with.

    Aside from this therapist, in my opinion let your daughter pick. Therapy is tricky and it is sometimes a few tries getting one that fits us. He or she may be wrong for somebody but right for somebody else. Only that person can decide. Only your daughter knows who clicks with her.

    Do not expect the therapist to keep you in the loop nor should you wish this. Therapy is private, between two adults. What they work on and how they work on it has to be between them.

    I would be thrilled if Kay would see any therapist. At least that is accepting to a certain degree that you need help.

    in my opinion again being a helicopter parent is unhelpful to all, the normal ones and those that need help. Think about if you would have responded well to a helicopter parent or, if you had one, if you became frustrated.

    We would have loved our younger daughter to work at our business, like our son does. She struck out on her own. We swallowed our own disappointment (considerable) and let her go her own way without trying to hold her back. We were not great parents without flaws, but I think this is one thing we did right.

    Be well.
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    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019