Tired after "episode"?

[jennd23]

Earlier today someone asked in another post if the child was tired after a meltdown/episode/whatever you call it. I can't seem to find that post but I was curious as to why you would ask that?


Ok, so what just happened:
Playing wii (together) he leans on my leg with his elbows so I say (calmly, playfully) "ow bud, that hurts, be careful!" He threw his controller and said "FINE YOU PLAY ALONE!" and then proceeds to dig his elbows into my leg on purpose, pushing them, hitting them etc. So I say (still calmly but not playful anymore) "Bud, stop, that really hurts!" Then starts screaming and crying about how I think he's stupid (of course I don't, bud), I hate him (I love you bud), I am always mean to him (I'm sorry you feel that way), etc.

I don't know what to do during these so I tend to respond to a few things then let him go because otherwise it will turn into him arguing you don't love me, you always say i'm stupid (which I have never said), you always hate me!

During the screaming and crying he'll usually lay down on the couch, and within about 10 minutes of laying down he's out cold, by the time he finally lays down he's not screaming anymore but almost always still crying. After the initial anger surge he's not physical and wants to sit by himself not be touched, etc. Right now he's curled up in a box (his "dog house" when he plays puppy) sound asleep.

I honestly never thought anything of it, I know these things wear ME out, I'm sure they wear him out too but when I saw him sleping I remembered someone asking about that earlier and was just curious as to why? Maybe something I need to be looking into....or maybe nothing, who knows!


I did want to add that these episodes have significantly decreased since starting Abilify! We used to doing this at least once a day, sometimes more if he woke up before bed time or on the weekends. But this is the first one in over a week, which is great, but still frustrating.

 

[keista]

Hi. I think it was on my thread about DD1. I haven't answered there yet, but the answer is yes for me.

If I'm remembering correctly from EVERYTHING I've read, I think the tiredness is an indication of a "crash" from a manic state? If you think about it, it does take a lot of energy to get that angry so being tired just makes sense. Hopefully the "pros" will be around soon to clarify. I feel "over-researched" right now and nothing is making sense to me.

The conversation you just posted it EXACTLY like some of mine, but my DD1 is not yelling or crying. She shows no emotion at all.

 

[Marguerite]

It takes a lot of energy to have a tantrum. it is exhausting.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

I was asking because many people who have seizures are exhausted after one. Rages and tantrums are exhausting also, but it is different. I don't know how to put it into words, but the difference after a seizure and a rage was very obvious with Jess. Well, tantrum is a better word because she is a easy child, but there is a difference between her normal tired, her after seizure tired and even Wiz after rage tired. I wish I could explain it, but it just feels different to me. Not because I am tired, but because how they sleep, etc....

Sorry I do not have the words to explain this. It is not something I really put much stock into (the difference in how they are tired) until I paid attention to it after I realized seizures were happening. I knew there was a difference before that, but couldn't figure out what or why.

It is possible that either keista or jennd23's child is having seizures that cause their behaviors. Video games are known to cause seizures in some people. Years ago there were a few episodes of the cartoon Pokemon that could not be aired in the US because they caused seizures in children in Japan. Not the entire show, but certain episodes. Seizures can cause almost any kind of behavior - it depends on the part of the brain that is involved int he seizure. Or so I have been told by the neuro and by other parents of kids with seizures.

It also could be sensory issues causing the problems. That isn't something I mentioned in the post when i asked about tiredness, but my youngest would often be extra tired after he was overwhelmed with sensory input. He just went into overload and couldn't cope. Until last year he missed a LOT of school days because he was so easily overstimulated. It was put into his 504 plan that he could have the extra absences with no consequences because even the principal who usually only sees him in passing could tell when he was just unable to cope anymore. If I kept him home he would sleep and do things taht helped him relax and recover - and he was never a good napper so we knew if he napped he really needed it. Then he would be in school the next day with no problems. If I sent him to school when he was on sensory overload he was unable to think, burst into tears easily, couldn't follow what was going on in class, and basically just shut down. It was something that those who knew him well enough to say his name if they saw him (adults who didn't have regular interaction liek the school secretary and aides in other classes) were able to tell at a glance that something was really really wrong with him.

Sensory issues are something that I believe EVERY child, easy child or difficult child, should be evaluated for. I think this goes triple for difficult children because it is terribly easy to overlook and is an amazing tool to help them learn to cope with their other problems. The neuropsychologist that worked with Jess last year said taht almost every child with adhd, ODD or another autistic or mental health diagnosis has significant sensory issues. An occupational therapist is teh person who does the evaluation. Public school districts usually have OTs that work with kids and they do evaluate for this if asked, but they evaluate for how it impacts the child at school, not how it impacts the child everywhere. A private Occupational Therapist (OT) is more likely to do a very thorough evaluation and to train you to do the therapy properly.

Therapy for sensory integration disorder usually involves providing the kinds of sensory input the child seeks out and also involves brushing therapy. This is a therapy that is not invasive and does not require any medications. A very soft brush, usually a surgical scrub brush, is brushed over the body in a certain order and is followed with very gentle joint compressions. It can be done on bare skin or over clothing and takes maybe two minutes each time you do it. It works to help create new pathways in the brain to handle sensory input.

You can learn more about Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) by reading The Out of Sync Child by kranowitz and find LOTS of activities to provide the sensory input the child needs in her book The Out of Sync Child Has Fun. Be aware that brushing therapy can create real problems if you do not do it properly, so it is important to be trained by a professional before you try to do it on anyone!

 

[InsaneCdn]

Something to think about...

We've been told to eliminate the word "tired" - because it doesn't really tell us anything. We're not dealing with seizures - which would add to this list - and there's probably other things as well, but... it helps to label the kind of "tired".

Physical fatigue comes from energy expended - and yes, a tantrum takes energy. So does doing real work - especially if there are gross motor issues. You just ran a marathon - that's physical fatigue.

Mental fatigue comes from a different kind of energy being spent - can be learning, can be self-control (trying to practice... as in, working through executive function deficits, for example); if there's a Learning Disability (LD) involved in the task, mental fatigue sets in earlier... Fine motor control issues tend to trigger this kind of fatigue. Ever done a 3-hour final exam? That's mental fatigue.

Emotional fatigue is different again - but out-of-control emotions are overwhelming. I'm guessing that there isn't anyone using this forum that doesn't hit this wall on a regular basis... ourselves and our kids!

Take any ONE of these to the overload point - and the kid will be in need of a shut-down break (aka nap, or sleep, or similar).
Most of the kids around here are going to be hitting multiples at the same time... and if there are other health triggers as well, then it just multiplies.

Interestingly, research in to fatigue - in various forms, from differing points of view - is (I'm told) in the early stages. We (or rather, "they", as in the "experts") really don't understand fatigue. As parents - we know its there, we just wish there was more help in knowing how to deal with it.

 

[flutterby]

difficult child often went to sleep after a rage.

 

[HaoZi]

Mine does the same thing, right down to the "You hate me"s and "You think I'm stupid"s. I begin to wonder if that's just programmed in with the DNA as a response. She is capable of raging for hours on end, too. Makes us both tired after a while, which doesn't help matters. Just hearing the frustration sounds she makes when something is bothering her or she can't do something or isn't allowed to do something is enough to make me cringe and want a nap.

 

[flutterby]

Mine did it, too, so I'm wondering if it's the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) thing since they have a limited vocabulary of feeling words (but rather full vocabulary of everything else)?