Update to my previous drama filled story about daughter

[Jenna0823]

if you read my previous posts you will get an idea of how the past has been with my daughter. Since my last post my granddaughter asked my daughter if we could visit her. Her mom said ‘sure’. Whatever that means we are driving 8 hours to see my granddaughter who my daughter has kept from me for 10 months now. My granddaughter is excited. My daughter has supposedly been clean from heroin for 15 months now. She had a baby two months ago and I had someone show me pics she posted on fb. The other day my 28 year old son who plays video games online with my granddaughter told me that my daughter and her current third baby daddy were in a heated screaming match that my son could vividly hear. My granddaughter seemed unfazed by the hour long drama. I suppose after all she has been thru it’s just another day. My daughter and her boyfriend both recovering heroin addicts were screaming and dropping the F bomb tons of times. Apparently the boyfriend has an STD and my daughter was telling him to get the F out. Threatening to call the police. He was cursing and screaming back. Then the newborn starts screaming as well. My son said that my daughter was then crying real hard and wanted her phone back and told him she wouldn’t tell the police he hit her. In 2017 they had several big fights and she was on heroin and had him falsely arrested when she nodded and bumped her head. He spent a month twice in jail. But he went back with her and they now have a baby. My friends say to mind my own business. That it will only backfire on me to get involved. I don’t have their address to send CPS there. I messaged my oldest granddaughters other grandmother and she saw her today at her hockey game and said she was happy and positive. She didn’t seem concerned at all. She has not been a big part of her life until this lady year as her son overdosed and died right with my granddaughter there from heroin. Now my granddaughter lives near her with my crazy daughter. Doesn’t that crazy addict behavior stop when they are clean ? She loves the drama. These two have it a lot. Should I just stay out of it ? Just keep praying that my granddaughter doesn’t become a crazy mental basketcase drug addict someday like my daughter. I feel so helpless. Just glad we can finally see her in two weeks. Not sure I care to see my daughter after all she has done for the last 17 years though. Any advice ?

 

[Copabanana]

Any advice ?

This is a terribly hard situation.

I will tell you what I think although you may not like it.

Nobody with half a brain or heart would want to see or hear about the situation your grandchildren find themselves in. And you with them. But that does not mean that you should take an active role to oppose it and intervene. Short of the kids being danger, I do not see how you have any legal standing to take a position (although I am not an attorney.) If you alienate your daughter, what will you achieve? Will it protect the kids or make the situation worse? (Mind you, I am not overlooking the welfare of the kids.)

First, everything you know is second-hand, at best. Although your son is entirely believable you did not directly observe what he heard.

Second. Your daughter correctly consented that you come and visit. She could just as easily have made it difficult for her child (and you) and refused. You are choosing to go to their territory. While you do not have to respect or like the way they live, you do have to accept it short of violence, neglect or criminality or dangerous conditions. If you cannot accept it, you should not go.

Finally. It is no small thing that your daughter and her partner are recovering from heroin. That they have not developed emotionally or matured does not mean that they won't someday. There is the consideration of your daughter's welfare too, that is a factor.

I think I would support her and support her children, by doing my best to stay positive, hopeful, and out of it. Your role is as a grandmother and mother, only. It is not your responsibility to fix the situation or to change it.

That said, I would have a very, very hard time. It is very difficult for me to be neutral or positive about my son's lifestyle and choices. If he was exposing children to this, I would be heartbroken and angry too. That is why this site is so useful to me. I am able to see myself through other's posts, and what I should aspire to. My best shot is to keep emotion out of it, except hope and love. And to have strong, firm boundaries.

My sense is that if you will have a hard time holding your boundaries, you should not go. Boundaries are not only to keep others away, and from hurting us. They are also to keep ourselves in check, and not triggered. In this situation, I would probably be triggered. If it were me, I might stay away and invite my granddaughter to my house or to go on a short vacation away from home.

 

[Jenna0823]

This is a terribly hard situation.

I will tell you what I think although you may not like it.

Nobody with half a brain or heart would want to see or hear about the situation your grandchildren find themselves in. And you with them. But that does not mean that you should take an active role to oppose it and intervene. Short of the kids being danger, I do not see how you have any legal standing to take a position (although I am not an attorney.) If you alienate your daughter, what will you achieve? Will it protect the kids or make the situation worse? (Mind you, I am not overlooking the welfare of the kids.)

First, everything you know is second-hand, at best. Although your son is entirely believable you did not directly observe what he heard.

Second. Your daughter correctly consented that you come and visit. She could just as easily made it difficult for her child (and you) and refused. You are choosing to go to their territory. While you do not have to respect or like the way they live, you do have to accept it short of violence, neglect or criminality or dangerous conditions. If you cannot accept it, you should not go.

Finally. It is no small thing that your daughter and her partner are recovering from heroin. That they have not developed emotionally or matured does not mean that they won't someday. There is the consideration of your daughter's welfare too, that is a factor.

I think I would support her and support her children, by doing my best to stay positive, hopeful, and out of it. Your role is as a grandmother and mother, only. It is not your responsible to fix the situation or to change it.

That said, I would have a very, very hard time. It is very difficult for me to be neutral or positive about my son's lifestyle and choices. If he was exposing children to this, I would be heartbroken and angry too. That is why this site is so useful to me. I am able to see myself through other's posts, and what I should aspire to. My best shot is to keep emotion out of it, except hope and love. And to have strong, firm boundaries.

My sense is that if you will have a hard time holding your boundaries, you should not go. Boundaries are not only to keep others away, and from hurting us. They are also to keep ourselves in check, and not triggered. In this situation, I would probably be triggered. If it were me, I might stay away and invite my granddaughter to my house or to go on a short vacation away from home.

I hope you read my previous posts to get more background into my daughter and her antics. My son heard them correctly while on FaceTime with my granddaughter. He was very upset they were acting violently and screaming and cursing and threatening police etc. My daughter has estranged me because I stopped enabling her and stopped giving her money and letting her steal from me. I just want to see my granddaughter and hope it really happens. My daughter is very toxic and always has been. I don’t want to deal with her drama and hateful behaviors but I want to see my granddaughter who I practically raised for 11 years. Are you saying I should be supportive of my daughter? Her behaviors haven’t changed since she got clean and this drama is not the first recently. It could cause her to relapse again as usual. I guess I should just keep my mouth shut and visit my granddaughter. My friends that know my daughter say just sit back and watch the circus unfold. It’s terrible for my granddaughter. Makes me so sad.

 

[Jenna0823]

I remember your previous posts.

What you described then was really horrible. I am not in any way condoning her behavior. Nor am I in any way minimizing what your grandchildren are going through and how bad this is for them. I think I understand how really difficult and bad is your situation.

I guess I would ask this: What is the result that you want? Maybe I misunderstood your post. For that, I am sorry.

But I do agree with your friends.

You sound very, very angry at your daughter. Any other mother would be just as angry.

The thing is this: Are you going there for your granddaughter because she needs you or are you going there to be mad at and have conflict with your daughter? If it is the former, there is one course of action. If it is the latter, there is another.

I would want to support and protect my granddaughter. i would want to find the best way to do that.
If your aim is something else, I misunderstood your post. For that I apologize.

I am going to visit my granddaughter and maybe get to see my new granddaughter for a minute. I don’t wish to deal with any drama from my daughter. All I want is to hug and kiss my granddaughter that I wasn’t allowed to see or barely talk to for 9 months. Yes I am very angry at my daughter. For many reasons. She just had a new baby with a third father and is behaving the same horrible way as she has with the past two guys she had my other grandchildren with. Since she has broken up with her second child my grandsons dad she threw my 5 year old grandson to the curb and hasn’t contacted him even by mail in a year this month. To me that is horrible. But maybe he us better off without all her drama. I know I am.

 

[Jenna0823]

I guess another question I have is this: What are you seeking here? What would have been the response that would have made you feel better, and that you were understood? Again, I apologize for being off the mark. I thought I was coming from the right place.

Sometimes it is hard here on this forum. Because we do not actually know each other; we are not with each other to feel each other's pain. And what we write is hurtful and wrong. I know that because it has happened to me here many times. I am very sorry. Please tell me how I can make this better, through my words. I did not mean to hurt you.

You didn’t hurt me. I am just so angry that she can’t put her kids first ever. If she is clean why act like she does. Why scream and curse and drop the f bomb with her kids there. Why at all ?

 

[Jenna0823]

I guess another question I have is this: What are you seeking here? What would have been the response that would have made you feel better, and that you were understood? Again, I apologize for being off the mark. I thought I was coming from the right place.

Sometimes it is hard here on this forum. Because we do not actually know each other; we are not with each other to feel each other's pain. And what we write is hurtful and wrong. I know that because it has happened to me here many times. I am very sorry. Please tell me how I can make this better, through my words. I did not mean to hurt you.

I just really wanted to know if my friends are right ? Should I just mind my own business? I am not good at that when it comes to protecting my granddaughter

 

[Jenna0823]

What would be your options, in terms of protecting your grandchildren? What is it that you could or would do?

It is not that your impulse to protect them is wrong, it is that I do not see how you could do it. Does your daughter have a history of listening to what you say?

I do not see the leverage that you have. Swearing and volatility and fighting may not rise to the level of child abuse. That is something you could research. Maybe they are. In that case you could make a report to Child Protective Services. If that is the way you want to go that is one thing.

Short of that, I think one issue here is that there is a reality of your daughter's behavior and current emotional state. She is who she is. She may change. She may not. So far, being off drugs has not given her the kind of stability and self control and judgment that we would have hoped. She is reactive and labile and has poor self control and as bad, she seems unable to grasp or care that her behavior is inappropriate, self-centered, and hurtful and toxic.

There is another reality here. If this is your daughter's current baseline, do you believe she will be amenable to hear what you say? We are responsible not just for our intent, but for results. We are responsible to think first, about what the consequences will be of what we do. Those are my beliefs.

I am not unlike you. I see myself in what you write. But I guess I am uncertain how you can protect your granddaughter in this situation, other than either going there with love in your heart, trying to set aside the anger, or not going, and seeing the child in a neutral setting. I feel sad, too. I am sorry.

No she doesn’t really listen. In the last past she involves me in the same kind of drama with previous exes and she never listens to me. She pretends to but then I have been told by them that she turns right around and tells them she hates me and bad mouths me but then calls me again with the drama an hour later. I will be cordial to my daughter and let my 11 year old granddaughter know that I love her very much and I am always here for her always whenever she needs me. I guess that’s all I can do.

 

[Copabanana]

I guess that’s all I can do.

For me, this is the the single hardest part of my own situation. Accepting that I am powerless to change my son. To make him want to live. To help him see his self worth. To make him accept treatment so he will outlive me. To understand he is hurting himself through his behavior and to care that he does so. To motivate him to live in a way that is not so destructive and self-destructive.

There's not one thing I can do, except to try not to be so reactive and to accept that all I can do is to take care of myself, and to find a way to feel my love for my son instead of my own frustration and helplessness.

 

[elizabrary]

I'm sorry you're going through this. I know how difficult it is when children are involved. I have called CPS at least 4 times that I remember. My daughter knew I did it and was angry, but at the same time each time she has been visited by them it has shaken her up enough to straighten up for a bit. This last time CPS actually followed up with me and then sent me the "safety plan" my daughter had to fill out for if she is drunk around my granddaughter. They also talked to my granddaughter at her school. If your daughter is still using heroin and they can prove it they will likely remove the children. You need to be prepared for this and determine if you are willing and able to take the kids.

 

[Jenna0823]

I'm sorry you're going through this. I know how difficult it is when children are involved. I have called CPS at least 4 times that I remember. My daughter knew I did it and was angry, but at the same time each time she has been visited by them it has shaken her up enough to straighten up for a bit. This last time CPS actually followed up with me and then sent me the "safety plan" my daughter had to fill out for if she is drunk around my granddaughter. They also talked to my granddaughter at her school. If your daughter is still using heroin and they can prove it they will likely remove the children. You need to be prepared for this and determine if you are willing and able to take the kids.

I am absolutely willing to take my granddaughter that is 11 and the baby if the father won’t take her. As far as I can see she is not using right now. But she has lupus and she has always relapsed especially when she is stressed with kids and life. Everything stresses her out. Her whole vocabulary is the f bomb. I am so ashamed of her. I am grateful that we are supposedly allowed to visit with my 11 year old granddaughter in two weeks for a few days. I guess I will have no expectations as far as my daughter is concerned. She has not contacted me at all since last June. That alone says it all about how she feels about me. Maybe when she is using is when she calls me day and night with the drama. I feel very angry that she is creating the same old Jerry Springer show environment that she has done with every baby daddy (this is the third) now. Same drama different man and new baby. Her 5 year old she has gone a year with nothing. Not even a card. It’s sickening. But my friends keep telling me to mind my own business and not to get involved so as to not make her mad again and not see me granddaughter. Nothing like walking on eggshells. Hugs

 

[Jenna0823]

What would be your options, in terms of protecting your grandchildren? What is it that you could or would do?

It is not that your impulse to protect them is wrong, it is that I do not see how you could do it. Does your daughter have a history of listening to what you say?

I do not see the leverage that you have. Swearing and volatility and fighting may not rise to the level of child abuse. That is something you could research. Maybe they are. In that case you could make a report to Child Protective Services. If that is the way you want to go that is one thing.

Short of that, I think one issue here is that there is a reality of your daughter's behavior and current emotional state. She is who she is. She may change. She may not. So far, being off drugs has not given her the kind of stability and self control and judgment that we would have hoped. She is reactive and labile and has poor self control and as bad, she seems unable to grasp or care that her behavior is inappropriate, self-centered, and hurtful and toxic.

There is another reality here. If this is your daughter's current baseline, do you believe she will be amenable to hear what you say? We are responsible not just for our intent, but for results. We are responsible to think first, about what the consequences will be of what we do. Those are my beliefs.

I am not unlike you. I see myself in what you write. But I guess I am uncertain how you can protect your granddaughter in this situation, other than either going there with love in your heart, trying to set aside the anger, or not going, and seeing the child in a neutral setting. I feel sad, too. I am sorry.

I don’t know if my daughter would listen to me at 31 years old. She has never listened to me. She is just hateful. I am worried sick about the long term affects for my granddaughters. The other grandmother of my 11 year old granddaughter saw her yesterday at her hockey game and I told her what was going on with my daughter and her boyfriend and the other grandmother said ‘Ava seems happy and very positive ‘. Wow that’s it ? Guess she doesn’t think there is anything wrong with her being subjected to f bombs and screaming and crying and threatening to call the police etc. I guess I should just mind my business and be happy if I get to see my granddaughter on April 5. As for my daughter I honestly don’t know what I would say to her. I really need to make sure my real feelings don’t come out in front of my granddaughter. I need to set a positive environment and example for her not the hillbilly drama my daughter lives by. Hugs.

 

[newstart]

if you read my previous posts you will get an idea of how the past has been with my daughter. Since my last post my granddaughter asked my daughter if we could visit her. Her mom said ‘sure’. Whatever that means we are driving 8 hours to see my granddaughter who my daughter has kept from me for 10 months now. My granddaughter is excited. My daughter has supposedly been clean from heroin for 15 months now. She had a baby two months ago and I had someone show me pics she posted on fb. The other day my 28 year old son who plays video games online with my granddaughter told me that my daughter and her current third baby daddy were in a heated screaming match that my son could vividly hear. My granddaughter seemed unfazed by the hour long drama. I suppose after all she has been thru it’s just another day. My daughter and her boyfriend both recovering heroin addicts were screaming and dropping the F bomb tons of times. Apparently the boyfriend has an STD and my daughter was telling him to get the F out. Threatening to call the police. He was cursing and screaming back. Then the newborn starts screaming as well. My son said that my daughter was then crying real hard and wanted her phone back and told him she wouldn’t tell the police he hit her. In 2017 they had several big fights and she was on heroin and had him falsely arrested when she nodded and bumped her head. He spent a month twice in jail. But he went back with her and they now have a baby. My friends say to mind my own business. That it will only backfire on me to get involved. I don’t have their address to send CPS there. I messaged my oldest granddaughters other grandmother and she saw her today at her hockey game and said she was happy and positive. She didn’t seem concerned at all. She has not been a big part of her life until this lady year as her son overdosed and died right with my granddaughter there from heroin. Now my granddaughter lives near her with my crazy daughter. Doesn’t that crazy addict behavior stop when they are clean ? She loves the drama. These two have it a lot. Should I just stay out of it ? Just keep praying that my granddaughter doesn’t become a crazy mental basketcase drug addict someday like my daughter. I feel so helpless. Just glad we can finally see her in two weeks. Not sure I care to see my daughter after all she has done for the last 17 years though. Any advice ?

Jenna0823 I deeply hurt for the situation you are in with your daughter. I know you are at your wits end to do what you feel is right. Just let your gut be your guide for what action to take next. If you are torn and do not know what to do next just take a deep breath and let the air going out help you make that decision. Where will you be staying after you visit? I think your daughter may want to fight or get money from you. Are you going to visit alone? Can you tape record your interactions so you can have proof if you need to call CPS? I know your love for your grandchildren is so overwhelming and possibly over riding some clear thinking. I know you need to see your precious babies. Is there anyway that if or when your daughter starts into you that you can just smile big and say 'I love you' I have done that with my daughter before, sometimes it mellows her and sometimes it infuriates her.. But most of the time it calms her down. I am praying that your visit will be peaceful and you get to see your precious little ones. Amen.

 

[Jenna0823]

Jenna0823 I deeply hurt for the situation you are in with your daughter. I know you are at your wits end to do what you feel is right. Just let your gut be your guide for what action to take next. If you are torn and do not know what to do next just take a deep breath and let the air going out help you make that decision. Where will you be staying after you visit? I think your daughter may want to fight or get money from you. Are you going to visit alone? Can you tape record your interactions so you can have proof if you need to call CPS? I know your love for your grandchildren is so overwhelming and possibly over riding some clear thinking. I know you need to see your precious babies. Is there anyway that if or when your daughter starts into you that you can just smile big and say 'I love you' I have done that with my daughter before, sometimes it mellows her and sometimes it infuriates her.. But most of the time it calms her down. I am praying that your visit will be peaceful and you get to see your precious little ones. Amen.

I definitely will bite my tongue and take the high road and be smiling and happy and of course that will make my daughter mad because she will think she hasn’t succeeded in ripping my heart out keeping my granddaughter from me. Her boyfriend has been told by my granddaughter that she wants to talk to me and misses me but he walks on eggshells around my daughter as well. I will be kind and godly and if nothing else show my granddaughter what a mature adult acts like even though my blood is boiling over all she has done. Praying that my daughter doesn’t do something last minute to not let my son and I see my granddaughter. We are staying with my brother in law up there when we visit. My daughter has not talked to him since last summer when she moved out of his house. He was nice enough to let her stay in a room at his house for a year when she got out of PRISON and she was so ungrateful and left the room with a hole in the wall from fighting with the current boyfriend and burn holes on all the carpet and nightstand and window sills. The bed stuff with burn holes. Lucky my granddaughter didn’t burn to death there with her smoking. Oh my heart aches

 

[newstart]

I definitely will bite my tongue and take the high road and be smiling and happy and of course that will make my daughter mad because she will think she hasn’t succeeded in ripping my heart out keeping my granddaughter from me. Her boyfriend has been told by my granddaughter that she wants to talk to me and misses me but he walks on eggshells around my daughter as well. I will be kind and godly and if nothing else show my granddaughter what a mature adult acts like even though my blood is boiling over all she has done. Praying that my daughter doesn’t do something last minute to not let my son and I see my granddaughter. We are staying with my brother in law up there when we visit. My daughter has not talked to him since last summer when she moved out of his house. He was nice enough to let her stay in a room at his house for a year when she got out of PRISON and she was so ungrateful and left the room with a hole in the wall from fighting with the current boyfriend and burn holes on all the carpet and nightstand and window sills. The bed stuff with burn holes. Lucky my granddaughter didn’t burn to death there with her smoking. Oh my heart aches

Jenna0823, I am glad you are not staying at your daughters house. It must of hurt you deeply knowing your daughter disrespected your brother in laws home like she did. I do believe if she did not have children you would have cut your ties. Sweet innocent children in the mix makes things so much harder. I just hope that your daughter has had a miracle and takes a look at her toxic ways. I still believe in miracles and I know they can happen, lets just pray that one will happen for you.

 

[RN0441]

Jenna

I have no advice but just wanted to offer my support and prayers that this visit will work out better than you are thinking it will.

We are used to imagining the worst I think and I hope that is the case here and you are pleasantly surprised.

 

[Jenna0823]

Jenna0823, I am glad you are not staying at your daughters house. It must of hurt you deeply knowing your daughter disrespected your brother in laws home like she did. I do believe if she did not have children you would have cut your ties. Sweet innocent children in the mix makes things so much harder. I just hope that your daughter has had a miracle and takes a look at her toxic ways. I still believe in miracles and I know they can happen, lets just pray that one will happen for you.

I have hope she will change. So far I guess she hasnt. Thought when she finally got off heroin for a bit she would change. One of my friends thinks she ignores me because she is ashamed of all she has done to me. I dont think she feels bad at all. I am her mother who always took care of her and was there for her supporting her financially and emotionally only to be treated like an old used up tissue and thrown away. My brother in law was not happy but we are close and he understands what my daughter does. Thank god she didnt steal more than his vacuum and a few collector coins before she moved out. Hugs

 

[Jenna0823]

Jenna

I have no advice but just wanted to offer my support and prayers that this visit will work out better than you are thinking it will.

We are used to imagining the worst I think and I hope that is the case here and you are pleasantly surprised.

I dont know what to expect really. I guess I expect her to be cold and cruel but i will just take the high road and be cordial. My son will be with me and she has excluded him from her drama usually so maybe she will be ok. Praying to see my granddaughter and just let the tears flow as i hug her and never let her go for the whole visit. I miss her as if she died. Its been 9 months since I have seen her and I raised her up until then. Saw her everday and supported her her whole life. Hugs