White Nationalism - How To Respond

Discussion in 'Failure to Thrive' started by BloodiedButUnbowed, Nov 14, 2019.

  1. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    DS seems to be at the very least, flirting with political views that are to our mind, unacceptable. We don't know what to do.

    He talks to us openly about his thoughts, which is a good thing; but he is becoming more and more militant, more passionate, and more entrenched in beliefs that both W and I find to be abhorrent.

    My worst fear is that he will plan or even worse, execute something awful while under our roof and that W and I will somehow be held responsible.

    It's so hard to know how to react....whether I am overreacting....I am an old school liberal and I am just astonished and disgusted that DS is trending toward opinions and mindsets that I thought went out of style in the 1950s. He proudly describes himself as an "authoritarian" and says the right wing does not go far enough to maintain order and keep minorities and immigrants at bay.

    His father is not like this, W is not like this. He is getting these ideas online.

    I know W is concerned, too. If we had proof of anything concrete it would be easier to discuss possible responses. But we don't have proof, and we don't want him to stop talking to us if for no other reason than at least if he talks, we have some idea what is going on in his mind.

    He doesn't have a working computer. His Internet access comes entirely from his cell phone, which we do not pay for.

    If he continues on this path I think he will need to go. I don't want to subsidize his irrational fears and xenophobia. If he had to make his own way he wouldn't have time to wallow in these Internet forums.

    I don't know what it might take for W to get to a similar place. We have other things going on too and we haven't had an in depth discussion yet.

    Has anyone else dealt with this, or something similar? It seems many young white males are falling prey to this type of ideaology.
     
  2. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    My kids and husband are not white. The only person in the nuclear family who is is white me. I could not live with a white nationalist. Not even a child. It repels me. And I am more of a conservative.

    This however is not about me. It is about you and your wife.

    It was no secret to you and W that this adult child is a big problem. I am certain that this particular problem never crossed your mind. Perhaps you need couples therapy so that you can both discuss it head on and get on the same page.

    This is a very difficult problem. Wishing you both the strength and wisdom to decide how to handle it. May God be with you.
     
  3. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Hi, Bloodied,
    What a difficult and trying situation. I think I would consult a therapist for my own emotional support and and guidance and I would also go have a sit down with a local police officer to see what my responsibilities are and what to look for.

    In your signature it says that DS has a history of drug abuse and domestic violence . So I would ask myself whether the violence was connected to drug abuse/ alcohol use . Is he violent now at any point? You say you think he is sober, but is he involved in recovery? There is a big difference between being sober and being on recovery. When the addict puts down the drugs, the have eliminated one symptom of how their disease played out . The -ISM of the the disease (of alcoholism or addiction) remains. That's the part where the origins of the disease live: the actual mental illness that includes cognitive distortions (Cognitive distortion - Wikipedia) and the self-centeredness , self pity, self delusion , and fear.

    You can require as a condition of living at home that he attend AA or NA meetings and is involved in a recovery program. As a former heavy drug user, it is crucial for him to deal with and heal the faulty thinking that all addicts engage in whether sober or not. In AA the state of sobriety without recovery is called "dry drunk" . In psychology they call it untreated alcoholism.

    Does he work? You can also require that as a condition of living at home. Does he pay rent? Is he socially connected or isolated? These are all things you might want to look at.

    I would also attend Al-Anon meetings for my own support because with a former drug user in the family, the whole family is sick and has been affected by the disease and needs supper and treatment EVEN IF he is not currently using.

    I would ask point blank whether he is entertaining thoughts of hurting anyone. This is what you do with suicide. We have a tendency to not ask the hard questions because we think it will put ideas in someone's head, but that is actually not the case. If he admits to having thoughts ask whether he has a plan to carry these thoughts out. If he does, you need to contact law enforcement and let them deal with him. Are there guns in the house? If so, get rid of them. Check his room for weapons.

    I think that the type of thinking you are describing in your son may have to do with fear, loneliness, and a dissatisfaction with life in general. He needs to move forward into something productive and benefiting others in the community. What can he give rather than what can he get? How can he contribute rather than complaining ? These are things I would throw out in discussion when he talks to you . Rather than addressing the ideology, bring it back to himself "What can you do to make this community a better place?" "How are you making a difference?" Etc He can make a difference by attending recovery meeting to help himself and others, for example.

    How we view other people (in this case immigrants / racially diverse people etc) is a reflection, a mirror, of how we view ourselves . When I am pushing hard against others, I am not accepting/loving myself. And it also is a reflection of a relationship with a Power greater than ourselves. We all have a higher power whether we see it that way or not. It sounds like these radical ideologies have taken the place of a loving higher power in your son's life.
     
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  4. BloodiedButUnbowed

    BloodiedButUnbowed Active Member

    Thanks WC for such a thoughtful response!

    DS has not been violent since his arrest in June while in his previous residence. Since then his mother and I bailed him out of jail, sent him to a 30 day rehab, and then a halfway house, which proved not to be a good fit for him. He has been with us since late August give or take and things have been going well overall.

    His case is now complete. He was sentenced to probation for two years.

    He attends a minimum of three AA meetings each week and has made several friends in our area who are all sober and whom he met at these meetings. He is doing this without any nagging or prompting from us. His sobriety is very important to him. He socializes with these friends both at meetings and at other times.

    He is also in therapy but it's unclear whether or not this is truly useful for him.

    He is set to begin community college in January and he has held the same part time job for four months now.

    So really our only concern are these fringe ideas, which I would agree are most likely fear based and the product of a person who hasn't yet found the larger purpose in his life. I will say this generation is facing a very different and in many ways bleaker future than I did at the same age. Maybe this is a factor too.

    I think if we became concerned that he was at risk of becoming violent we would ask the questions you suggested. The trouble is that it's so easy for well meaning parents to focus primarily on what is going smoothly and brush aside moments of concern. So far they are just that - moments - but adolescents are masters at showing parents just enough to pacify us. We have no idea what is really going on in his head.

    We'll stay on top of it and update as needed.
     
  5. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    It is in my opinion a way to feel better about oneself for a trite reason that in no way indicates virtue, character and intelligence.

    My family had trouble at first when I started dating my biracial husband. They said our kids would have it harder, but the real reason was that they grew up in the deep South and had ideas. But they changed and learned to love him as I did and do and our kids have not had problems due to mixed race. I think my husband is their favorite childs spouse today. He is so kind and attentive of them and yes very successful as are our biological children.

    Since this issue affects the very core of those I love the most, I get upset with this. Wise gave good feedback coming from a calmer place.Thank, you Wise.
     
  6. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    This is a great resource:
    Letting Everybody Around You Grow Up

    I have learned a lot from this video about allowing everyone in my household to grow up.

    I am so glad to hear your son is in recovery and connected in AA. The 12 steps will help him to love himself and find a greater purpose in life.

    Best wishes to you and your family!
     
  7. BusynMember

    BusynMember Active Member

    I will watch it. Thanks.
     
  8. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    So from what you responded, Bloodied, it sound like your son is much younger than I envisioned from your original post . It sounds like he is doing well with attending regular recovery meetings, is motivated to do so, and has made friends in the program whom she also sees socially . And he works . So there is social interconnectedness which is so important .

    It also sounds like he is fairly new to Recovery and so it takes time for the program to take a hold . Hopefully he has a sponsor and has started step work which is very important for staying sober/clean. He will hear this enough at meetings.

    Considering that he seems younger than I envisioned from your original post, he may also be trying to push against you with these radical ideas. Teens and young adults often run their ideas by us to see a baseline and if he senses that you are fearful of his thoughts and ideas, he may try to goad you a little. Best thing to do is to stay neutral emotionally, not get into an argument , and just calmly insert your position of inclusivity and diversity as a way to make society work best for all. And then drop it. Don't feed the discussion too much.

    Since his violent behavior was connected to his drug use , he does not sound like a violent person. We all do things when we drink or high that are out of character. And with an addiction comes a level of desparation that leads to all sorts of desparate behaviors.

    I would affirm his goodness when appropriate , when you see him doing something kind. I would hold him to his highest good in your mind. As the video I sent explains, don't try to figure him out and be hypervigilent about his affairs, but focus on you.

    Blessings to all of you! I will send a prayer to your son when we circle up in our AA meeting.
     
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    My son fell prey to something like this, with a focus less on the political and more on the apocalyptic. I forbade him to speak of such things to me and on the phone would hang up. Mainly his interest was the Illuminati but also Alt Right views with words like "globalists." My worldview and politics is likely similar to your own. I found it all scary and abhorrent and nothing I wanted to support. But I sought to support my son.

    I want to say that he is less aggressive with these views, now. Only in times of stress do these views come out. But I insisted that he would not express this toxicity near me. M has a different way of responding. He does not take it seriously, but is indifferent to this kind of talk. He sees this not as political but as my son's spiritual world view. M sees it as everybody has their own understanding of G-d and the right to pursue G-d in the manner that they need. Perhaps the ability to speak to M who is tolerant, allowed my son to get distance from these beliefs.
    I agree with this. I think my son had little in his life that gave him self-esteem and a sense of efficacy. I think this is part of the toxicity of White Supremacy, which draws strength from alienated and powerless people.

    I will say that my son is biracial and I am racially ambiguous. Which is to say I choose to not define myself by a racial category. I never believed my son was against any racial category, (except perhaps, my own ethnic group) but he has struggled with race since late teen years. Which is one reason we lived for a time in a culture with lots of mixed race people. My son felt there to be a cultural "placeholder" for him.

    What is happening in this country (and world) now is really triggering to people. Why would our kids not be triggered?
    I agree with this. It seems like DS is following through in important ways. From my own experience I believe that there is a way to continue to support our children as they grow up and hopefully move beyond their "difficult" times.

    M and I took different tacks. I'm not clear which one was the better or more effective. He and I have different strengths and weaknesses. We could give different things. My son is doing better across the board, which is not to say he's doing well. The bottom line is that I think we have to be true to ourselves. Which is to say to have loving boundaries. We can't give what we don't have. On the other hand, how do we grow unless we allow our growing place to be challenged.

    You have really worked hard to be there for this young man. You took a big risk. You came through for him in a big way. I remember your decision making process in allowing him to move home. You confronted and worked through your concerns. It sounds like it was the right call for all around. Now in this stage of the process, there is again a call for reassessment and response.

    What I was unable to do with my own son was to have a dialog with him about this all. I was too triggered. M did. I think this perhaps was the better approach. M and I are each of us despised minorities, he is one type, and I am another. We are each of us among the targeted groups. I think that openness to dialog is key, although I could not do it. But I could stay in relationship to my son, and was able to stay supportive and connected, inconsistently so, but still in the game. But there were times in my heart of hearts when I worried that he could be vulnerable to evil people who would target others. But that has not been realized. He is more and more returning to his compassion, at least in relation to us.

    I have great confidence in you Bloodied. In your ability and willingness to seek and to find a place of loving responsibility. I am glad you posted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  10. Crayola13

    Crayola13 Active Member

    Some young men who don't have enough going on in their lives feel the need to get involved in this type of thing. They use it to balloon their egos and need a sense of belonging and bond with other low functioning young men.