Struggling With Decision

[miche]

difficult child has been reasonably good at daycare lately. She had a good week last week everyday except Thursday, which evidently was HORRIFIC. I didn't pick her up, husband did, but according to what the teachers told him, she was completely out of control. I don't know exactly what she did, other than have a complete temper tantrum at naptime because she didn't want to sit on her cot. She woke everyone up, ran in and out of the bathroom, and screamed alot.

So yesterday when I went to pick her up, she was so proud of herself because she'd had a good day. She went in to the director's office to tell her what a good day she'd had. The director gave her a stamp, and said that she had heard about Thursday, the teacher called her at home! I told her that I heard she had quite a tantrum. She said that it wasn't a tantrum, it was complete OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT behavior. Nothing like she'd ever seen in a 3 year old. She actually told me "good luck" with my daughter in life!

Needless to say, I was taken aback and completely offended. difficult child has no diagnosis, and she had one bad day in the past 9 school days. Maybe she is oppositional defiant, but is it really her place to make that diagnosis? Now I'm worried that her school is going to look at her differently until she moves to Kindergarten....

 

[jal]

Hi,

I haven't posted for some time, but I have been lurking. I just wanted to say I can sympathize with you as my difficult child exhibited some such behavior at daycare beginning around 18 months. He became defiant, would run from the classroom, tantrum, etc. I had been wanting to get back into posting and yours just really reminded me of the frustration and hopelessness I felt in dealing with that first daycare he was in. It most certainly isn't the directors place to diagnosis you child and in my case, as I hope not yours, my child was looked upon differently. Although, my child never had 9 good days in a row until the past two weeks=) (After new diagnosis and medications) Finally! He's promised to give me 100 in a row.

 

[miche]

You say behaviors at 18 months? How could you tell that they weren't just typical toddler stuff? We didn't see anything out of the ordinary until she was 2.5, and we chalked that up to a new baby in the house. It just hasn't really gotten better since then!

My difficult child has just moved to this daycare. She was in a very academic and highly over structured preschool for almost 2 years. They kept moving her up and up because she is very smart. So she was a 2 year old with 4 and 5 year olds for awhile. FInally when I toook her out of there I realized that they were just picking on her for behaviors that she couldn't control, mostly because she was 3! That's all!

This place promised to be wonderful, but I'm worried now that the director made this comment to me. She is WAY better at this place than she was at the old one, but it's not good enough for them, I think.

 

[jal]

Little things started at the daycare around 18 months...By the time he hit 2 he was uncontrollable at daycare. He started the daycare at 4months old. By around 18 months little things started happening. Hitting, biting, tantrums - all I agree are normal toddler behavior. As he got around 2 he became even more out of control. He would run from the class room, rage and destroy a classroom, push kids out of chairs, throw things. We had him tested through Birth to 3 and he had no learning disability. At around age 2.5 they threw him out. They could not handle him at all.

He was a perfect baby. Hit all milestones early. On a tight schedule from the moment home from the hospital. Sleeping through the night at 6 weeks and then around 18 months our lives just changed.

He has been through 3 daycares...Now in preschool/daycare with VERY understanding and compassionate teachers. Was diagnosed ADHD at 4, but completely freaked out on Metadate. Ritalin LA helpd for 3 hours in the am and then he would meltdown and be on the ceiling for the rest of the day. Now Feb 07 evolving diagnosis of early onset bipolar. 5 mg Abilify, brand new child. Unbelievable difference in behavior, gaining ability to control anger (which teachers are amazed at-as we are).

We just "knew" there was something else going on with him.

"The not good enough thing" - I know how you feel. Daycares/schools today do not want to deal with "difficult" kids. They want them all to be perfect and fit into a mold that just was not meant to be for them. Your daughter may be just testing the waters at the new daycare to see what she can get away with, which is normal at her age. My child just couldn't hold it together for 1 day once the spiral started.

 

[SRL]

Miche, these days are very hard and as parents we tend to react very strongly to anything negative that other adults say about our child. From what you've described you ARE seeing many oppositional defiant behaviors. No, the preschool director cannot officially label your child but what is important in terms of application here is that she's emphasizing to you that in her experience she's never seen a child like your daughter at this age. Your daughter may have had 8 reasonably good days but her bad day apparently was extreme and not comprable to the bad days that her peers usually experience, in the professional opinion of this director.

You have a choice what to do with this bit of information. You can focus your attentions on the director's comments in a negative way or you can use it to move forward towards making plans which could potentially help your daughter and your family. If these behaviors were only occuring at school, changing preschools would be the obvious next thing to try. But since they are also occuring at home there's a good likelihood that something is going on--you've realized this yourself and have already spoken to your pediatrician about a referal. If the preschool director is knowledgable, concerned and helpful, her insights may be what you need as she may be able to provide information/data to you and the pediatrician to help move forward in the evaluation process.

It might be a good idea at this point to schedule an appointment with her to discuss what she specifically is seeing so you can report back to your doctor. Try not to be defensive but go into it in such a way that you express yourself as wanting to take whatever steps are needed to help your daughter succeed in a school environment.

 

[miche]

I don't know. I guess I'm just not ready to 'give up' on her yet. And I feel that if I accept that she needs a medical diagnosis at age 3, I'm giving up on her. I don't know. That's just me right now. I'm upset and don't know how to deal with this. I can't accept that there is something wrong with my 3 year old that will last for the rest of her life. I think for my own sanity I have to believe that she will grow out of this in a few months. I need to be positive right now or I will go out of my mind. Her meltdowns are definitely fewer and farther between lately.

I notice that alot of the posters on here have adopted children with problems. husband and I have NO history of any type of mental difficulties. She is not adopted. So I guess that if something were "wrong" with her I would blame myself for being a bad parent. I mean, kids just don't "catch" these kinds of disorders. They are mostly genetic or because of other factors (abuse, drugs in utero, etc) Right? So if something is wrong, where did it come from?

 

[SRL]

Many things in life happen that are no one's fault.

You are experiencing the same feelings that all of us do when we're at this point. It's just those of us who have been down the road a ways see the other side of the coin. You can see a medical label (if there is one) giving up on her and dooming her to something she will have with her the rest of her life. Or you can look at it as being proactive in case there is something there because early intervention is ALWAYS the best way to address potentially negative issues so as to to minimize their impact in later years.

You can view a label as a weight that's draped around a child's neck for life or you can see a label as a road sign to help the adults in their life make every opportunity count so their issues won't be debilitating. There's been times when it's felt like the first view to me but for my son it's definitely been the second. He doesn't even know about his label but because we knew and the school staff members knew we've been able to address issues and remove obstacles and provide him with extra time to develop where needed. Today he's left nearly all of his issues behind and is indistinguishable from his peers but it couldn't have happened in his case without the benefit of knowing exactly what we were dealing with to give him the right kind of help and understanding.

I don't mean to press you on this because every parent needs to find their own way for themselves and their child but I do want to leave you with this perspective. It looks very different from this side of the evaluation fence.

 

[jal]

Sorry so long...
My son is not adopted and has not been abused. My husband and I do not do drugs and my pregnancy was as healthy as can be. Although, my husband has some slight Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)...I felt that it was us or daycare at first too. You would not be giving up if you gave it more time or if you pursued another avenue. With "difficult" kids/temperments you can never give up. We have exhausted many routes to get to where we are. When my son was 2 husband and I worked with a psychotherapist to hone our parenting techniques. I have every book under the sun on parenting. Sticker charts, time outs, positive reinforcement...nothing mattered or clicked with him. I had him neurologically tested. I had a state child guidance program observe him in daycare. I went to a highly touted child study center. Last year I had a behavorist in my home once a week for almost all of 2006 working with us.

For us, we knew something else was going on. It is a feeling that we got. But look back in your family histories. That's where we found some big red flags. We found manic depression, bipolar, depression, alcholism, anxiety...They trickled down both his maternal tree and my paternal tree. That combined with the fact that ADHD medications have not worked and the Abilify has, has made me be able to come to some terms with it. husband is still trying to. The fact that my child gets out of bed now and says good morning Mom, I love you so much, instead of awakening me with a kick to my lower back and an I hate you, helps me come to terms even better.

As I said to our new therapist last nite (first one for us)...difficult child was a planned baby. husband and I together almost 16 years, married 8 years this year. We talked and talked about kids for over a year before we decided we were ready. We wanted him, we did everything right, first grandchild for all sides of the families and then we stepped into this whirlwind 2.5 years ago. It is sad, it is scary, it makes me angry, yet I will always do everything I can to make it better for him. Am I doing the right thing? Am I putting him on a medication that he really doesn't need or will hurt him in the long run? Am I going to face some of the unbelieveable nightmares that these courageous people on this board face every day when he gets older? I go through this constantly. I believe at 3 you don't want to slap a diagnosis on a child...I sure didn't. But we kept plugging away at every avenue with our difficult child because something wasn't right and it wasn't just us who saw it. 2 daycares, a preschool/daycare, 2 current preschool teachers, us observing him with other kids - you could see "it".

His teachers had never had a child like him before, except 1. She is adopted, drugs involved...receiving wonderful psychiatrist care and therapy and parents have been a godsend to share their resources with us. It has been through them that we may have been finally able to scratch the surface of our child once again.

 

[jal]

SRL - I read this after my very long post.

Thank you.

 

[Andrea Danielle]

Hi Michelle, just wanted to add my 2 cents. At age 3.5, we realized that our difficult child had a serious problem. We were called to the daycare by the Director to pick him up, it was one of those days! He was completely out of control, hitting, kicking the kids, teachers and the Director herself. When I arrived to pick him up he was in the office and when the director tried to explain to me what had happened, he just kept screaming "shut up, you stupid jerk" to her. I was horrified! She also said that this was the worst that she has ever seen. She was close to asking him to leave but things turned around when she saw how willing we were to work with them to help our son. We became a team, and I looked to the daycare for their feedback on how he was doing. We shared resources. The Director, my husband and I even went to see Ross Greene's presentation. We are very close friends now because we worked on it together.
I agree with what SRL advised, try to not be offended by what she said and work with her to help your daughter.

Same as Jal, there is no known history of any disorders in our family. Our son is not adopted and he has been loved and cherished from the moment he came into the world. He has been given every opportunity to succeed. Since he has been on medications, we have seen a huge difference in him! Not that every child needs medications.

Good luck, we have all been there!

Andrea

 

[totoro]

You will know when you are ready... my difficult child 1 started showing signs at 6 months, she was a head banger, and very unaware of boundaries. She would grab other kids in pure joy, not realizing she was choking them or hurting them and scaring them!!! This still happens somewhat... Of course we were told oh these are all normal things!!!
Our difficult child was the most energetic they had seen in pre-school, and enthusiastic... she got sent home a lot.

But a day comes when you realize you are no longer functioning as a "family" and that your child needs help. Our easy child/difficult child 2 is getting to that point, we are dragging our heels a bit, mostly because our difficult child 1 is still unstable, but we need to get difficult child 2 in with a developmental pediatrician.

Good luck... at least you are preparing yourself in case. I hope she does outgrow it.

 

[SRL]

totoro, I think as parents in the position of seriously wondering if there's something more going on with our kids we have the mindset that we want to give them the benefit of the doubt that there isn't anything there and they'll just grow out of it. From the other side of the assessment fence my view on this has totally swung around to believing that we owe it to these kids to rule out underlying neurological issues. It's like seeing the two alternatives from totally different perspectives: given the two alternatives what's really "worse" to have in the long run--a child that has an underlying neurological condition that explains their extremely difficult behavior or one that has a history of very difficult behaviors for no significantly justifiable reasons? When we're starting into the process the neurological side always looks worse, I think, because we just keep hoping hopes like they'll grow out of it or if I can only find the right school setting/daycare/teacher/activity then they'll be fine. But after getting over the hurdle and seeing the benefits of treatment, therapy, and/or appropriate settings, most parents are usually very glad to finally have some support and direction to help their child.

I guess part of the reason that I lean strongly on the side of early assessment when there's been a history of difficult behaviors is because it wasn't until age 5 that we sought out some answers. We did a lot of things right by instinct that my difficult child benefitted from--in fact so much so that the specialists who evaluated him had never seen a child with his condition who had come so far without formal therapeutic intervention. But there were a lot of things we did wrong (especially in the areas of flexibility and sensory areas) that exacerbated his problems. Had we known earlier, we could have saved difficult child and ourselves a heck of a lot of battles and put some interventions such as speech in earlier. In hindsight I realize that had my difficult child been born to different parents they probably would have been desperate for answers around age 3. I was at home which gave me a lot of flexibility to adapt things like our schedule, I have a teaching background so the home was very much a place of learning and training, and I have infinite amounts of patience with young children (balanced out by a HUGE lack of it for middle elementary aged children and adults, I'm very sorry to say). He was very difficult but we just weathered it thinking God had sent a kid who was wired up differently--never did consider there might be something else there.

Miche, it does sound like one of the major trouble spots is that naptime. Have you met with the preschool director to discuss alternatives? Do you or your husband have any flexibility in your job that you could check her out for that short period?

 

[miche]

SRL -- The director is absolutely firm on this, as it was at her previous daycare. Naptime is a state regulation, and all children MUST lay quietly on their cots for the entire duration (about 2 hours). We think it's ridiculous (as does our pediatrician) to ask any 3 year old to be quiet and still and stare at the ceiling for any length of time, especially 2 hours and espcially if they don't need to nap, but they are firm about it. Period.

Our pediatrician's solution is to find her in-home daycare. Not an option or something I want for her right now. We tried that route when she was a baby and it was horrible.

We are trying to figure out a way to have her transported to the public pre-K (if, that is, we can get her in -- it's based on special needs and financial need!) for the afternoon session so that she will not have to endure naptime. This would require switiching daycares (again) for next fall. I'm actually contemplating applying to the school districts "Child Find" program so that she will be evaluated early for school, and if they find any issues that could require an IEP then she would be considered "special needs" and we'd have a better shot at getting in for the public pre-k.

Conversely, husband and I have always agreed that both of our children would go to private school. Ah -- what to do. We have alot of thinking to do in the next few months.

Neither of us are able to rescue her from naptime due to our work schedules. husband works an hour away, I"m a teacher so I can't leave.

 

[totoro]

SRL - I totally agree with you, I was trying to say that when it is affecting your life so much you kind of have a moment when you wake up and say " this is the right thing to do for my child" Regardless of what anyone else says or thinks, or how hard it is, I truly believe that the earlier the better. Sometimes what I am thinking and what comes out do not always flow so well!!! Ha Ha... I had to hear that "she will grow out of it" BS for so long... it drove me crazy.

We are looking for help for our 2yo, and wish we had done it with our 5.5 difficult child... It is a hard step to take but it is worth it especially for our little ones.

 

[mightymouse]

I completely agree with the posts of jal and SRL in particular. My own take on the director's comments are this - sorry if I don't put this as elequently as the others. From my own experience working at a daycare while I was in college, a "difficult" child is going to be labeled at daycare, whether it is a medical label or not. On my first day working at the daycare I was told which kids were the "troublemakers". Of course, all of their behaviors were blamed on ineffective parenting. If my child were in daycare now, I would be greatful for a director who was professional enough and concerned enough to be thinking about a true medical reason for her behavior rather than just looking at her as just another parent made "troublemaker".

<span style="color: #CC33CC">So I guess that if something were "wrong" with her I would blame myself for being a bad parent. </span>
Miche, you say this as if something "wrong" means a diagnosis. Judging from the stress I hear in many of your posts that I read, I assume that you are already going through the feelings of being a bad parent even though you don't have a diagnosis. So I guess what I am saying is that this is not a good reason for putting off an evaluation. Also, looking at it from a genetic standpoint, as far as I know, they don't know exactly what the genetic connection is with many of the possible disorders, if any. If there is a connection, think of it this way. There are many parents who give birth to children with physical disorders when there is no family history of the disorder. It just happens to be a trait carried by a recessive gene of both parents that they don't even know about until it shows up in one of their children. Would you even think to blame these parents for their child's disorder? I went through severly blaming my son's behavior on myself for some time. I knew that something was wrong with him from birth. I signed up for a parenting class when he was 15 months old because I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong to make him act this way. I already had a perfect, and I mean perfect, child and thought I was a great parent. Needless to say, the parenting class didn't help. I decided to retake it about a year later because I thought I just wasn't applying the information right. At some point, I had a major lightbulb moment and after so much comparing my difficult child to my easy child it dawned on me that my parenting had little to do with my easy child being so perfect, it was just her nature. The same goes for my difficult child.

Obviously, I am for early intervention. I am in the process of having my difficult child evaluated right now. I would have done it sooner had I realized it could be done. But, along with it comes an incredible fear of a diagnosis. I am worried about a lifetime of medications and counseling and $$$ to pay for it all. Jal wrote: <span style="color: #CC0000">Am I going to face some of the unbelieveable nightmares that these courageous people on this board face every day when he gets older? I go through this constantly.</span> ME TOO! I fear he has BiPolar (BP) and a part of me would rather not know right now because of what this diagnosis means the future might hold. But the overwhelming part of me wants to know now so that we can start to treat it and get it under control now and so I can learn the best way to parent him. Thank you SRL for saying things look much better on the other side of the evaluation fence!

by the way, the naptime rules are ridiculous. If at any other time of day a child was expected to sit still and do completely nothing for even 15 minutes, it would be seriously frowned upon. Yet it is o.k. to do this for 2 hours to a child who obviously doesn't need a nap!

 

[BusynMember]

I 100% agree with SRL and I'm an oldtimer with kid's disorders too. My son is 13 now and the earlier they get help, the better it is. Rather than giving up, you are HELPING your child have the best prognosis for a productive life. At his age, I'd see a developmental pediatrician and/or a neuropsychologist, and skip the non-MD talk therapists. Your child can not function in a normal daycare setting. You know that. He probably needs early childhood education through the school district to help you AND him with whatever is causing all those meltdowns (sorry just remembered it's a her...lol). My son had meltdowns too--he went to Headstart half the day and early education the other half. Did I feel like I was "giving up" on him? No way. I would have not felt right "holding off" when I knew my child was struggling. It sounds like your daughter wants to do the right thing, and is proud when she does, but some days she just CAN'T. That's a red flag. Oppositional behavior, or what appears to be that, is usually linked to something else, like Early Onset Bi-Polar (EOBP), Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), possibly ADHD (but an ADHD diagnosis. makes me nervous when a kid tends to over-the-hill act out--it is usually the first diagnosis given, often not the last one or the right one). All of my son's considerable early interventions. helped him tremendously. He's 13 now and doing GREAT, no rages, a really good kid, but he's on the autism spectrum, so he is different and he had to get supports. But he's doing so well now that he is almost mainstreamed and nobody guesses he has high functioning autism. I'm really proud of him and him--and me--could not have done it alone. We had to deal with a lot of misdiagnses before we got the right one, which is why I advice skipping the school district and regular psycologists/therapists for an evaluation. Hugs to you and your girl, and lots of luck!

 

[miche]

All of you have alot of great information. I don't think I could handle an Early Onset Bi-Polar (EOBP) diagnosis. I would be the one having a nervous breakdown. I was previously married to a man who was bi-polar, He ended up commiting suicide. I just couldn't deal with it emotionally if that was my child. That's what I fear the most. ADHD I could handle. ODD I could handle. Bi Polar I absolutely could not.

My daughter has functioned perfectly in a daycare setting until this past 4-5 months when the trouble started. Meltdowns didn't begin until about a two months ago, when she got a new teacher.
We never had ANY problems at all up until then, except the typical age-appropriate things you see with toddlers/preschoolers. Now that she is at a new school and we see the problems continue, that's why we are worried.

I have thought about checking out the public preschool for special needs, but I just can't do it. She is really smart, and not just book smart. She knows what is going on. I don't think it would be a good thing to put her in a classroom like that. I know they have extra support, but I'm not really confident about it. Plus I'm not an advocate of public schools AT ALL, mostly because I teach in one! That's another story, but I see it from a teacher's point of view as well.

We are waiting for a call back from the psychologist as a first step. I've asked her teacher to document any meltdowns that she has (been okay since last Thursday) and try to figure out the trigger. I am keeping a behavior log now. Once we talk to the psychologist, we will start a behavior plan for the teacher at school (and us at home). We'll see how it goes.

Being on this board is great for information, but it is actually depressing me more. I can't think of all of the problems that my difficult child might have or I'll go crazy.

 

[tiredmommy]

Michelle,
I want to address a few things in your last response. First off, your daughter will be the same wonderful & beautiful child you have today even if she were to receive a diagnosis tomorrow. The thing is, though, that an unstable bipolar patient (such as one who isn't under treatment or ineffectively treated) is more likely to attempt suicide than a properly treated bipolar patient. I'm not saying that she has bipolar, but whatever is going on won't just go away on it's own. In the example of bipolar, she will be stable quicker with a lot less damage to her life if the disease is properly controlled. She stands a much better chance of thriving and making it into safely adulthood if this medical condition is treated.
I would still have her evaluated privately and through the school. She's currently at an age where proper interventions can go a long way toward minimizing problems later. Probably the best thing you can do to get a true picture of what is happening is start a simple behavior log. I know my daughter looked like she had Early Onset Bi-Polar (EOBP), but a lot of her raging was the result of over-stimulation and sensory issues. She also wasn't sleeping well (even though she put in the hours) because her severe allergies kept her from sleeping well.
Good luck, I know how completely exhausting and overwhelming all this is. Please remember to take care of you and also remember you aren't alone in all this.

 

[SRL]

miche, I have been in your near shoes in many ways. I am a former high school science teacher who nearly always taught polar extremes: the very high (physics) students and the lowest level classes with many special needs students. I grew up with a mother who had bipolar and to some degree her issues were why our family was so dysfunctional and painful. I also had a very bright but difficult child. My difficult child started reading when he was two, could read books independently like Magic School Bus by the time he was 3 1/2, and his writing skills were consistent with his reading skills...plus he had a memory for facts and creativity like you wouldn't believe.

One of the hardest things for me to do was to break down my own personal hurdles to be able to get the kind of help my son needed. The first one was to get over the hurdle of what I could or couldn't handle. Frankly I wasn't too keen on the suggestion of having a child with special needs after thinking for so long he was merely brilliant but difficult. I'd seen it both at home and in the classroom and I knew how very difficult that life could be. We had a sped dept that I thought highly of but it was inconceivable to me that my son could have ever benefitted from Special Education prechool or regular school for that matter due to how very bright he was and what a good learner he was.

It turned out I was wrong on all accounts.

In the end it's important that a parent not let their own personal issues stand in the way of getting help for their child. You probably have seen parents who have done exactly that or have been in denial as a teacher have seen the results. If you reach a point where you see your daughter isn't functioning well and you need to move forward on an evaluation but your own fears are standing in the way I would urge you seriously to seek out help for that. A parent's refusal to move forward when the need becomes clear robs a child of potential means of getting early help when it can make the most difference.

My impression of special education preschool has been totally shattered by reports of parents on a board with many kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) traits or diagnosis's. Most very bright kids are going to soak in the academics every where they turn so that is usually not a primary need for them. What they often need is a setting where those issues effecting school readiness are a priority and many benefit a great deal. Academics are easy to supplement at home. Functioning well in a school setting is not. Much to their surprise, many parents who place very bright kids in early intervention programs report that the experience is a positive one because the setting addresses the child's weaknesses, instead of playing up to the child's strengths.

I wasn't faced with the early intervention decision because my child was approaching 5 when we started suspecting there might be more going on than brilliant and difficult. He was functioning very well in a regular preschool--it was at home where he was incredibly difficult. I started looking around at private schools for him already when he was three but I shut that door firmly when I realized his need for supports in the form of an IEP were more important than a challenging academic curriculum. He was bored in the academic sense in K and 1st but it took so much energy for him just to maintain in the school setting and adjust to being there all day that being ahead actually was a very positive factor. Now that the other kids are caught up in reading and math (often around 3rd grade) he doesn't stand out and is happy at school.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that many of the beliefs I once held to haven't panned out in the end. I've been able to handle the diagnosis and everything that came with it (including a huge hit to my pride having my brilliant kid having a sped label). I now see a label as a means to getting early appropriate help and not a life sentence. The sped services which I once thought were totally unnecessary for my son have proven to be incredibly helpful to him not to mention discrete whenever possible so he isn't singled out from his peers. We go through many adjustments to our beliefs through the course of our parenting years and this one took me through some major leaps.

 

[BusynMember]

Wow. SRL, great post. Unfortunately, t his really isnt' about what we can or can't handle. It's t he cards we and our kids are dealt. If a child get an ADHD diagnosis. and really has Early Onset Bi-Polar (EOBP), the stims will make the bipolar worse and can actually accelerate the disorder and make it worse. I have bipolar, I'm 53, I'm alive and stable and have no desire to kill myself. Another possibility that nobody mentioned, which mimics bipolar, is autistic spectrum disorder. High functioning Spectrum kids often can't handle change or any sensory output and are very inflexible, rigid, and socially clueless. Often they are very bright kids academically, but they don't "get" life and can get so frustrated they bang their heads against the wall and rage up a storm. These disorders don't get better or go away without treatment. As much as we want to think they will, the worst thing for the child is for the problems to be ignored because we hope they disappear. Early intervention gives your child the best prognosis for a bright future. The good/"bad" behaviors of your child remind me of either Early Onset Bi-Polar (EOBP) or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). ADHD is fluent--all ADHD/all the time and ADHD kids don't really get violent. ODD is not normally a stand alone diagnosis. A Psychiatrist almost never diagnosis. ODD alone. That's kind of a non-MD therapist speak, and they also tend to blame parents for these problems when it isn't your fault. I hope you see a neuropsychologist or a Child Psychiatrist soon. Start at the top. That's what we learned. Don't see a therapist when you can see a Psychiatrist or a Neuro psychiatric (I actually like NeuroPsychs better because they do intensive testing). Good luck :smile: