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advice on difficult child & siblings/NCP
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<blockquote data-quote="helpme" data-source="post: 328589" data-attributes="member: 8202"><p>>Who lives with you, and who does not?</p><p></p><p>I only have the youngest with me.</p><p>I hold custody of the middle (until end of June, she will be 18 then) </p><p>and the youngest.</p><p></p><p>>I take it that you are talking about your 12 year daughter old </p><p>having lunch with your 17 year old daughter?</p><p></p><p>Yes</p><p></p><p>>Is your oldest a boy or a girl?</p><p></p><p>Boy. Order of protection issued early this year until 2011.</p><p></p><p>>What was so unbearable about the situation?</p><p></p><p>The lies mostly, the mom bashing, and in general attempting</p><p>to persuade youngest to "join them"/live with them. </p><p></p><p>>Don't you think that your daughter ought to feel comfortable </p><p>about mentioning her father? </p><p></p><p>Yes, I sure do. I wanted all three to be with him fifty percent of</p><p>the time. We tried it that way for as long as we all could.</p><p></p><p>>If she doesn't even talk to you about him, that's a big red </p><p>flag that she doesn't feel comfortable with you where her </p><p>father is concerned.</p><p></p><p>She does talk <of> him. Personally, I think she wants her dad to</p><p>help both her brother and sister. I think she wants him to</p><p>help "make their problems go away". She also suffers a </p><p>great deal of embarrassment about it all. We moved few towns</p><p>over and I think that has helped tremendously.</p><p></p><p>>Unless your other children or their father assault your </p><p>daughter during visits, that's not ever going to happen. </p><p>Ever. The court will work with you to be sure that the</p><p>children are safe during visits. Period.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I understand that. My primary concern has been her safety.</p><p> All of the children figured that problem out on their own and </p><p>as they got older, used it to their advantage. Witnesses </p><p>(medical, school, and lawful) have testified about how their father permitted the children to act with each other and towards me. </p><p></p><p>>Have you been in therapy regarding how to help you and </p><p>your children have a safe and open line of communication </p><p>with you about their father? </p><p></p><p>No. While middle was with me, I strongly encouraged her</p><p>to see her father and to involve her sister if she desired.</p><p>Middle didn't want anything to do with him until she wanted</p><p>help with the bad decisions she was making herself and</p><p>wanted complete and total freedom.</p><p></p><p>>If your middle daughter is not physically or sexually abusive, </p><p>there are no grounds for an OP. Have you tried to involve </p><p>yourself and your middle daughter in therapy so that you </p><p>won't feel so threatened about what she might say to your youngest?</p><p></p><p>There has been grounds for an OP with our middle</p><p>daughter due to the fact that she was constantly creating</p><p>phone problems (running up their father's bill on all</p><p>the cell phones, accusing me of doing it, filing false phone</p><p>harrassment phone charges against me and others</p><p>close to me, stalking her sister (to take her), telling lies to youngest's</p><p>friends and friend's parents, etcetera. The family</p><p>court advised me to file for an OP. I declined, because</p><p>in my opinion, she's doing all of this "for" her daddy. Our son</p><p>was doing things because he couldn't control himself and</p><p>had a ton of anger problems even as a very young child.</p><p>Sure middle daughter is angry (at me) also, but it does not </p><p>show criminally, work-wise, or anywhere else in her life.</p><p></p><p>>Since he is requesting that the court enforce the visitation order,</p><p>He has not had visitations since April 07. I filed for divorce</p><p>in Feb 07 after we couldn't work things out with a private</p><p>attorney since Jan 06. I offered visitations for all three children,</p><p>in that first order, to expire in March because he was changing </p><p>employment and did not know his new schedule. I was </p><p>completely flexible with visitation over the summer, in </p><p>fact he had them over fifty percent of the time since</p><p>I knew I'd be helping them more during the school year with</p><p>homework. I also made him sign monthly calendars right</p><p>before school started because the oldest two were running</p><p>off on Friday night, without their father knowing their whereabouts,</p><p>and then he'd be mad at me when he had to go figure out</p><p>where they were the next day. IOW, the kids were playing </p><p>him, and quite well I must say.</p><p></p><p>>there are no grounds for abandonment if you refuse visitation.</p><p>I've never refused visitation. I have filed visitation (again,</p><p>our personal verbal agreement) interference charges on him</p><p>twice. Once he wouldn't return two of them that I had already</p><p>provided with medical care for strep throat and needed to</p><p>take youngest to the ER (he was having family over, pregnant</p><p>ones at that, heh) and the other when he wasn't sending our</p><p>son to school for finals right after son was released from</p><p>house arrest at his mother's home (son needed to relax of </p><p>course, life at his paternal grandma's was rough-heh). </p><p></p><p>>There are grounds to have you charged with violation of </p><p>court ordered visitation, and probably contempt of court. </p><p>He could probably get custody based upon that. You would</p><p>be well advised to work out a visitation schedule with him </p><p>now rather than make the judge tell you that you have to do it his way.</p><p></p><p>Nope, in the last two years he's never asked for visitation</p><p>on the girls in court. Truthfully, our son was taking up our </p><p>court dates for the divorce. Dad's lawyer was having him be</p><p>seen my whichever family court judge we had rather than </p><p>the juvenile judge. </p><p></p><p>He never asked even to see his now 22 yo daughter from is previous</p><p>marriage, and finally relinquished his paternal rights to her when </p><p>she was 12, when his ex remarried. Over a hundred thousand </p><p>dollars in child support might make a person do that with a </p><p>child they hadn't seen since she was 3.</p><p></p><p>Granted, on his behalf, it was difficult keeping track of</p><p>our son during all of these missing three years.</p><p>But no Christmas or Birthday presents, no phone calls to</p><p>them on the phone plan he maintained, etcetera, since Nov 07. </p><p>See, he was mad at the girls for their feelings and opinions</p><p>about their brother. And me, I got so caught up trying</p><p>to help our son, I didn't realize the effects at that time</p><p>on the girls, until our son was out of the home (Nov 07).</p><p></p><p>I did do a good job of getting middle to go to counseling </p><p>(which even had a few appearance by her dad but not</p><p>her brother) and I did have a Remedy in the OP for son</p><p>to get counseling, which is where I felt we all could </p><p>get help. I went with a civil no contact order first, and then</p><p>we proceeded to the OP, when dad wouldn't agree to</p><p>mandatory weekly counseling.</p><p></p><p>But dad said son didn't have a problem, son </p><p>didn't do anything wrong, and WE all didn't need to go to</p><p>counseling and that he didn't have the money to assist.</p><p></p><p>>When you say he is unfit, what do you mean? The court </p><p>usually considers a parent who supplies a child with drugs </p><p>or alcohol unfit.</p><p>Yup. There are police reports already admitted into evidence.</p><p>As well as police reports where the police contacted him</p><p>after son broke into the house where me and the girls</p><p>were living with his friends after I went to work at 6 am.</p><p>Son and his friends were actually getting high and drinking</p><p>on the property we were at from 9pm until the next morning.</p><p>Dad had no clue where son was. I could go on and on.</p><p> </p><p>>Also, if they use the child in other illegal activities such as </p><p>shoplift or commit fraud for them; </p><p>Yup. Bills in the children's names. Misrepresenting</p><p>custody, misrepresenting addresses, lying about car</p><p>insurance, allowing them to drive without insurance </p><p>on his work cars, not notifying me of school absences,</p><p>shoplifting charges and illegal intoxication while driving </p><p>while I held custody (on oldest two since I also held full</p><p>custody on our son until he was 18 but he was not in</p><p>my care).</p><p></p><p>It's also important to add that I did not want to keep</p><p>custody of a child not in my car. But dad was never eager</p><p>to take the full responsibility of the kids behavior. </p><p>Especially not financially. I couldn't get Dad to sign</p><p>the paperwork to take custody of the children. For son,</p><p>I did request through the attorneys several times</p><p>that I would sign over custody of son, if he was to</p><p>receive the medical care he needed and was be ordered</p><p>to receive (by the school and by the law). That was too </p><p>much work for any of them. And personally, I don't think</p><p>dad could have found a judge who would have awarded</p><p>custody of son to him. Even with me keeping quiet </p><p>about it all. Because dad tried that a few times. Get this,</p><p>Dad got criminal/physical custody and I kept legal custody.</p><p>Um, its a no brain er that Dad was posting a lot of bond money.</p><p></p><p>Now custody was finally granted in May of this year on</p><p>the girls, to me. But before the 30 days were up to validate</p><p>that agreement, I was in family court in front of our divorce</p><p>judge defending myself from an EOP. Dad's motion</p><p>to overturn custody has not been heard at this time.</p><p>Um, I don't know what to say here except that he sort</p><p>of looked like an ass for how he did this stuff. And </p><p>middle daughter telling the judge that her brother</p><p>never harmed her didn't help matter whatsoever for</p><p>his case, since the state prosecuted our son and it was</p><p>her written testimony and tons of bloody pictures</p><p>that got him charged.</p><p></p><p>>if they force the child to live in squalor; if they withhold </p><p>basic living needs such as food, clothing, a bed, etc. from the child; </p><p></p><p>Oh yea, like letting them stand out in weather in the teens</p><p>to be first in line at a store on Black Friday, without winter</p><p>coats? Let the kids sell line tickets to make money? </p><p>Then take them home and let them invite more kids</p><p>over to a place that does not have heat for the rest of the</p><p>weekend? More parents yelling at me! Call his landlord </p><p>you say? Hell no, at that time he was only 5 of his later </p><p>11 months behind on his $1100 a month rent. I called </p><p>his mom and she went and paid for the heat to be fixed </p><p>Sunday after I got the kids back, after she pleasantly </p><p>cussed me out because she thought he was paying me </p><p>child support. Yea right. And no, I have never called</p><p>DCFS. I probably should have. But everyone knows</p><p>what's been going on. And my children were taught that</p><p>they are always to have heat/food/shelter and if they didn't</p><p>that I would come get them and we'd bump around visitation</p><p>or make other changes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Feed em you say? Yup, I took over lots of bags of groceries</p><p>and money and bought lots of pizza's. I also borrowed</p><p>money for their air beds. In fact, besides the fact that I was running</p><p>around being responsible for them while they were in</p><p>his care and the homework/school issues, the fact that </p><p>the kids were unsupervised and getting into trouble</p><p>and hurting each other was more alarming than anything.</p><p>I didn't just have a son who was stealing, I had a daughter</p><p>who was being threatened about his stealing, and another</p><p>youngest daughter who's brother was "going out" her friends,</p><p>5 years age difference. I spend a great deal of time in</p><p>the principals office by myself.</p><p></p><p>>if they personally beat</p><p></p><p>IL does consider allowing your child to be hurt by</p><p>another one of your children as abuse. IL also considers </p><p>permitting a child to hurt his other parent as abuse.</p><p></p><p>>Does your family court have parenting classes </p><p>that you might go to so that you can understand the </p><p>legal requirements for termination of rights and visits? </p><p></p><p>We have both completed our classes.</p><p></p><p>>You seem to not understand the level of depravity </p><p>required to terminate your ex husband's rights. </p><p>Terminating your child's relationship with her siblings </p><p>is all but unheard of.</p><p></p><p>The state already terminated their relationship when</p><p>the OP was ordered. Trust me, no one took the situation</p><p>lightly. Everyone knew it would put a strain on</p><p>the father's relationship with his children. But as</p><p>I hope I conveyed, his lifestyle and choices concerning</p><p>the children had not allows been in their best interests.</p><p>Sometimes I was happy my son wasn't given full punishments,</p><p>since I felt that it was actually his father who should have </p><p>punished for allowing son to act in such ways.</p><p></p><p>>I've never heard of "reserving visitation". What does that mean? </p><p>I've searched and searched the statutes and can't find it anywhere.</p><p></p><p>Reserving the right to visitation means that he can</p><p>later request such. Its just a temporary hold. It can be</p><p>indefinite or definite for a certain amount of time,</p><p>or until certain things are met (such as counseling or</p><p>sentencing for a crime).</p><p></p><p>See, one of my worries is that I know their father has not</p><p>been obeying the OP at this time. He had both children</p><p>living in the home at the same time. They are no longer</p><p>in the same home, but son is unemployed now and</p><p>is facing eviction. He is also awaiting trial on gang</p><p>rape charges, and other charges of course. </p><p></p><p>>Honestly, I don't blame her for not wanting counseling. </p><p>She's 12 years old and wants to be normal. Maybe you</p><p>and she could attend counseling and find a way to work </p><p>this out between you? </p><p></p><p>Um, there isn't much to work out between her and I.</p><p>If she wants to see her siblings or her father, I will work</p><p>it out for her, somehow. She also knows that if she</p><p>wants to be with him, than she may. I told the middle</p><p>daughter the same.</p><p></p><p>>I don't think that you can convince the court that you are </p><p>only protecting if your husband "is non-abusive, just </p><p>irresponsible and immature"</p><p>So true. </p><p></p><p>>and you want to prohibit him from seeing his children. </p><p></p><p>But I am not seeking to prevent him from ever</p><p>seeing her. I just know for a fact that he won't follow</p><p>any court orders as he's shown in the past. And most</p><p>importantly, youngest does not want to see him.</p><p></p><p>>It's incumbent upon you and he to figure out </p><p>how to allow him to see these children and be good parents to them.</p><p></p><p>Sure it is. I spend more time talking to him that she</p><p>does. I'd bet I talk to him more than he talks to all three of them.</p><p>I offer A, or B, or C, or D. His new answer is that he is</p><p>not agreeing to anything unless it includes finalizing</p><p>our divorce. And my counter offer is...</p><p>He pays for the legal fees for all of this nonsense,</p><p>I'll wipe all debts to me, and reserve visition at this time.</p><p>He can petition the court when she wants visitations</p><p>(I'm sure she will when all the smoke clears, they usually do)</p><p>or when he can assist with counseling for her (he's too busy</p><p>and it's too expensive).</p><p></p><p>>If he's not a danger to them, and he won't change, then you </p><p>have to figure out how to deal with the consequences to your </p><p>children of his parenting style. </p><p></p><p>I can't deal with his parenting style. No one should have</p><p>to deal with these issues. I wouldn't wish this one anyone.</p><p>Personally, I think he got mad about getting a divorce and</p><p>wanted to get back at me through the children. And</p><p>he did a bang up job alright. But, I will not allow him</p><p>to pass off the financial responsibility of his actions upon me.</p><p>He can thus pay the legal fees for our son's actions that</p><p>he permitted and he can pay the college tuition for our</p><p>middle one, since we were unable to plan things out together.</p><p>(He refused to pay for any tuition assistance) I'll eliminate his</p><p>child support past and future. </p><p></p><p>I never wanted child support anyway. I wanted to get two</p><p>teens in the same grade out of high school and enjoy them.</p><p></p><p>But no, he refused to cooperate on the court order for</p><p>health insurance. "Ain't no judge gonna make me pay!" </p><p>Okay if you wont make an agreement with me dad, then</p><p>I'll go do it myself and we can work it out later. "I'm not </p><p>paying!" Okay then, get the insurance yourself. "No!"</p><p>Then I'm gonna file for a withholding on your check and</p><p>they will notify your work of the court order and require</p><p>you to sign up for health insurance. "Won't happen!"</p><p>It only took a week for the paperwork to get to his work.</p><p>The kids used that health insurance until he left that job.</p><p></p><p>Even better, he notified that job of his "leave". Went</p><p>to the next job and didn't think I'd figure it all out. Sent</p><p>notice to his new work. They declined it. Had to go</p><p>tell his old work about his new work to get the withholding</p><p>to end there and start at new work. Took me a while,</p><p>but insurance was started again. To this day we still have </p><p>medical bills he bankrupted while he was court ordered</p><p>to have insurance and pay 50/50 after deductible. </p><p>I'm making the payments.</p><p></p><p>If I didn't have the youngest, I'd take every ounce of it all.</p><p>But I have her to care for, and that just is not fair to her.</p><p>Oh wait, did I add that he filed bankruptcy last year?</p><p>So I have all of our marital bills, while he continues to</p><p>amend his bankruptcy with the tons of legal fees and</p><p>other bills created after he was forced out by legal order</p><p>of the marital home.</p><p></p><p>>Be ready to explain without judgment why you have different </p><p>rules than he does. Be sure that they know that you both </p><p>love them and that one parent's love isn't any more or less valuable </p><p>than the other's, you just have different styles of parenting </p><p>because you're two different people and you disagree. </p><p></p><p>Yup. I totally agree. But for some reason, without the counseling</p><p>I just can't see this little one getting over the fact that</p><p>her father has "skipped" over her for so long. The resentment</p><p>she has toward him comes from his decisions. I begged</p><p>him to continue a relationship with her, to make sure</p><p>she and her sister understood that he was busy helping </p><p>their brother do better, and that he was not "forgetting</p><p>about them". I begged him to assist in reforming a relationship</p><p>with our son. Not for myself. For our son. </p><p></p><p>>Be sure that they know that you have confidence that they </p><p>are good people who will be good adults and that they can</p><p>come to you for advice any time and you will not judge them </p><p>or debase their father to them.</p><p></p><p>Agreed. Back to the same problem though. Their father</p><p>judged the girls for standing up to him about their brother.</p><p></p><p>>I don't know what it is that your ex has done to make you so angry. </p><p></p><p>He really doesn't have me angry. He frustrates me. </p><p>He knows for a fact that these children need him.</p><p>He knows they need their mother as well. Ironically, I'm</p><p>not really sure what they need me for, except for a punching</p><p>bag, verbal abuse, or money. But maybe someday that will</p><p>change. But not with the way things are right now. </p><p></p><p>>I do know that if the two of you </p><p>walked into any family court I'm familiar with (and I am) </p><p>you'd both be admonished to figure it out before the court </p><p>orders you into an arrangement you can't live with, </p><p></p><p>Honestly, I personally could live with any agreement. </p><p>Agree to what really? I get all the bills anyway, and</p><p>those to come. That's okay, as long as they were for</p><p>the good. </p><p></p><p>But youngest won't go with him. I've never pressured </p><p>her to tell me to many details. But I bet she has more</p><p>information than anyone would want to know. And the </p><p>court took her statements on both siblings already, on </p><p>the stand, so I would imagine they will respect her</p><p>wishes in regards to visitation.</p><p></p><p>But going without visitations will only create a bigger</p><p>mess in a few years if the oldest two don't settle down,</p><p>or if some form of relationship isn't developed with dad </p><p>before youngest becomes a teen.</p><p></p><p>>and counseling that the court and the other party will have </p><p>access to and can use against you in future hearings. It's not what you want.</p><p></p><p>You know what, as messy as everything's gotten, I could care</p><p>less what comes out in counseling. Everything needs to come</p><p>out. True or untrue. Because every day the oldest two are told</p><p>more and more lies. I'd rather confront them head on now,</p><p>than try to figure them all out later. That's something that has</p><p>hurt us all along. </p><p></p><p>Personally, the youngest is so little in maturity (held back) that</p><p>she will do better forming a relationship with her father in a few</p><p>years or sooner. I say that because she has that sort of personality.</p><p>But right now, she is scared of her brother, and I can't change that</p><p>with the behavior he shows to everyone. Her sister's lies about</p><p>what has happened in the past and what she knows happened</p><p>is a whole another issue. She loves her father, but just doesn't</p><p>want to get caught up in all the drama. And I know he loves her</p><p>too.</p><p></p><p>Thanks for listening...I think you guys are right. I hafta find</p><p>someone to talk to, and youngest too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="helpme, post: 328589, member: 8202"] >Who lives with you, and who does not? I only have the youngest with me. I hold custody of the middle (until end of June, she will be 18 then) and the youngest. >I take it that you are talking about your 12 year daughter old having lunch with your 17 year old daughter? Yes >Is your oldest a boy or a girl? Boy. Order of protection issued early this year until 2011. >What was so unbearable about the situation? The lies mostly, the mom bashing, and in general attempting to persuade youngest to "join them"/live with them. >Don't you think that your daughter ought to feel comfortable about mentioning her father? Yes, I sure do. I wanted all three to be with him fifty percent of the time. We tried it that way for as long as we all could. >If she doesn't even talk to you about him, that's a big red flag that she doesn't feel comfortable with you where her father is concerned. She does talk <of> him. Personally, I think she wants her dad to help both her brother and sister. I think she wants him to help "make their problems go away". She also suffers a great deal of embarrassment about it all. We moved few towns over and I think that has helped tremendously. >Unless your other children or their father assault your daughter during visits, that's not ever going to happen. Ever. The court will work with you to be sure that the children are safe during visits. Period. Yes, I understand that. My primary concern has been her safety. All of the children figured that problem out on their own and as they got older, used it to their advantage. Witnesses (medical, school, and lawful) have testified about how their father permitted the children to act with each other and towards me. >Have you been in therapy regarding how to help you and your children have a safe and open line of communication with you about their father? No. While middle was with me, I strongly encouraged her to see her father and to involve her sister if she desired. Middle didn't want anything to do with him until she wanted help with the bad decisions she was making herself and wanted complete and total freedom. >If your middle daughter is not physically or sexually abusive, there are no grounds for an OP. Have you tried to involve yourself and your middle daughter in therapy so that you won't feel so threatened about what she might say to your youngest? There has been grounds for an OP with our middle daughter due to the fact that she was constantly creating phone problems (running up their father's bill on all the cell phones, accusing me of doing it, filing false phone harrassment phone charges against me and others close to me, stalking her sister (to take her), telling lies to youngest's friends and friend's parents, etcetera. The family court advised me to file for an OP. I declined, because in my opinion, she's doing all of this "for" her daddy. Our son was doing things because he couldn't control himself and had a ton of anger problems even as a very young child. Sure middle daughter is angry (at me) also, but it does not show criminally, work-wise, or anywhere else in her life. >Since he is requesting that the court enforce the visitation order, He has not had visitations since April 07. I filed for divorce in Feb 07 after we couldn't work things out with a private attorney since Jan 06. I offered visitations for all three children, in that first order, to expire in March because he was changing employment and did not know his new schedule. I was completely flexible with visitation over the summer, in fact he had them over fifty percent of the time since I knew I'd be helping them more during the school year with homework. I also made him sign monthly calendars right before school started because the oldest two were running off on Friday night, without their father knowing their whereabouts, and then he'd be mad at me when he had to go figure out where they were the next day. IOW, the kids were playing him, and quite well I must say. >there are no grounds for abandonment if you refuse visitation. I've never refused visitation. I have filed visitation (again, our personal verbal agreement) interference charges on him twice. Once he wouldn't return two of them that I had already provided with medical care for strep throat and needed to take youngest to the ER (he was having family over, pregnant ones at that, heh) and the other when he wasn't sending our son to school for finals right after son was released from house arrest at his mother's home (son needed to relax of course, life at his paternal grandma's was rough-heh). >There are grounds to have you charged with violation of court ordered visitation, and probably contempt of court. He could probably get custody based upon that. You would be well advised to work out a visitation schedule with him now rather than make the judge tell you that you have to do it his way. Nope, in the last two years he's never asked for visitation on the girls in court. Truthfully, our son was taking up our court dates for the divorce. Dad's lawyer was having him be seen my whichever family court judge we had rather than the juvenile judge. He never asked even to see his now 22 yo daughter from is previous marriage, and finally relinquished his paternal rights to her when she was 12, when his ex remarried. Over a hundred thousand dollars in child support might make a person do that with a child they hadn't seen since she was 3. Granted, on his behalf, it was difficult keeping track of our son during all of these missing three years. But no Christmas or Birthday presents, no phone calls to them on the phone plan he maintained, etcetera, since Nov 07. See, he was mad at the girls for their feelings and opinions about their brother. And me, I got so caught up trying to help our son, I didn't realize the effects at that time on the girls, until our son was out of the home (Nov 07). I did do a good job of getting middle to go to counseling (which even had a few appearance by her dad but not her brother) and I did have a Remedy in the OP for son to get counseling, which is where I felt we all could get help. I went with a civil no contact order first, and then we proceeded to the OP, when dad wouldn't agree to mandatory weekly counseling. But dad said son didn't have a problem, son didn't do anything wrong, and WE all didn't need to go to counseling and that he didn't have the money to assist. >When you say he is unfit, what do you mean? The court usually considers a parent who supplies a child with drugs or alcohol unfit. Yup. There are police reports already admitted into evidence. As well as police reports where the police contacted him after son broke into the house where me and the girls were living with his friends after I went to work at 6 am. Son and his friends were actually getting high and drinking on the property we were at from 9pm until the next morning. Dad had no clue where son was. I could go on and on. >Also, if they use the child in other illegal activities such as shoplift or commit fraud for them; Yup. Bills in the children's names. Misrepresenting custody, misrepresenting addresses, lying about car insurance, allowing them to drive without insurance on his work cars, not notifying me of school absences, shoplifting charges and illegal intoxication while driving while I held custody (on oldest two since I also held full custody on our son until he was 18 but he was not in my care). It's also important to add that I did not want to keep custody of a child not in my car. But dad was never eager to take the full responsibility of the kids behavior. Especially not financially. I couldn't get Dad to sign the paperwork to take custody of the children. For son, I did request through the attorneys several times that I would sign over custody of son, if he was to receive the medical care he needed and was be ordered to receive (by the school and by the law). That was too much work for any of them. And personally, I don't think dad could have found a judge who would have awarded custody of son to him. Even with me keeping quiet about it all. Because dad tried that a few times. Get this, Dad got criminal/physical custody and I kept legal custody. Um, its a no brain er that Dad was posting a lot of bond money. Now custody was finally granted in May of this year on the girls, to me. But before the 30 days were up to validate that agreement, I was in family court in front of our divorce judge defending myself from an EOP. Dad's motion to overturn custody has not been heard at this time. Um, I don't know what to say here except that he sort of looked like an ass for how he did this stuff. And middle daughter telling the judge that her brother never harmed her didn't help matter whatsoever for his case, since the state prosecuted our son and it was her written testimony and tons of bloody pictures that got him charged. >if they force the child to live in squalor; if they withhold basic living needs such as food, clothing, a bed, etc. from the child; Oh yea, like letting them stand out in weather in the teens to be first in line at a store on Black Friday, without winter coats? Let the kids sell line tickets to make money? Then take them home and let them invite more kids over to a place that does not have heat for the rest of the weekend? More parents yelling at me! Call his landlord you say? Hell no, at that time he was only 5 of his later 11 months behind on his $1100 a month rent. I called his mom and she went and paid for the heat to be fixed Sunday after I got the kids back, after she pleasantly cussed me out because she thought he was paying me child support. Yea right. And no, I have never called DCFS. I probably should have. But everyone knows what's been going on. And my children were taught that they are always to have heat/food/shelter and if they didn't that I would come get them and we'd bump around visitation or make other changes. Feed em you say? Yup, I took over lots of bags of groceries and money and bought lots of pizza's. I also borrowed money for their air beds. In fact, besides the fact that I was running around being responsible for them while they were in his care and the homework/school issues, the fact that the kids were unsupervised and getting into trouble and hurting each other was more alarming than anything. I didn't just have a son who was stealing, I had a daughter who was being threatened about his stealing, and another youngest daughter who's brother was "going out" her friends, 5 years age difference. I spend a great deal of time in the principals office by myself. >if they personally beat IL does consider allowing your child to be hurt by another one of your children as abuse. IL also considers permitting a child to hurt his other parent as abuse. >Does your family court have parenting classes that you might go to so that you can understand the legal requirements for termination of rights and visits? We have both completed our classes. >You seem to not understand the level of depravity required to terminate your ex husband's rights. Terminating your child's relationship with her siblings is all but unheard of. The state already terminated their relationship when the OP was ordered. Trust me, no one took the situation lightly. Everyone knew it would put a strain on the father's relationship with his children. But as I hope I conveyed, his lifestyle and choices concerning the children had not allows been in their best interests. Sometimes I was happy my son wasn't given full punishments, since I felt that it was actually his father who should have punished for allowing son to act in such ways. >I've never heard of "reserving visitation". What does that mean? I've searched and searched the statutes and can't find it anywhere. Reserving the right to visitation means that he can later request such. Its just a temporary hold. It can be indefinite or definite for a certain amount of time, or until certain things are met (such as counseling or sentencing for a crime). See, one of my worries is that I know their father has not been obeying the OP at this time. He had both children living in the home at the same time. They are no longer in the same home, but son is unemployed now and is facing eviction. He is also awaiting trial on gang rape charges, and other charges of course. >Honestly, I don't blame her for not wanting counseling. She's 12 years old and wants to be normal. Maybe you and she could attend counseling and find a way to work this out between you? Um, there isn't much to work out between her and I. If she wants to see her siblings or her father, I will work it out for her, somehow. She also knows that if she wants to be with him, than she may. I told the middle daughter the same. >I don't think that you can convince the court that you are only protecting if your husband "is non-abusive, just irresponsible and immature" So true. >and you want to prohibit him from seeing his children. But I am not seeking to prevent him from ever seeing her. I just know for a fact that he won't follow any court orders as he's shown in the past. And most importantly, youngest does not want to see him. >It's incumbent upon you and he to figure out how to allow him to see these children and be good parents to them. Sure it is. I spend more time talking to him that she does. I'd bet I talk to him more than he talks to all three of them. I offer A, or B, or C, or D. His new answer is that he is not agreeing to anything unless it includes finalizing our divorce. And my counter offer is... He pays for the legal fees for all of this nonsense, I'll wipe all debts to me, and reserve visition at this time. He can petition the court when she wants visitations (I'm sure she will when all the smoke clears, they usually do) or when he can assist with counseling for her (he's too busy and it's too expensive). >If he's not a danger to them, and he won't change, then you have to figure out how to deal with the consequences to your children of his parenting style. I can't deal with his parenting style. No one should have to deal with these issues. I wouldn't wish this one anyone. Personally, I think he got mad about getting a divorce and wanted to get back at me through the children. And he did a bang up job alright. But, I will not allow him to pass off the financial responsibility of his actions upon me. He can thus pay the legal fees for our son's actions that he permitted and he can pay the college tuition for our middle one, since we were unable to plan things out together. (He refused to pay for any tuition assistance) I'll eliminate his child support past and future. I never wanted child support anyway. I wanted to get two teens in the same grade out of high school and enjoy them. But no, he refused to cooperate on the court order for health insurance. "Ain't no judge gonna make me pay!" Okay if you wont make an agreement with me dad, then I'll go do it myself and we can work it out later. "I'm not paying!" Okay then, get the insurance yourself. "No!" Then I'm gonna file for a withholding on your check and they will notify your work of the court order and require you to sign up for health insurance. "Won't happen!" It only took a week for the paperwork to get to his work. The kids used that health insurance until he left that job. Even better, he notified that job of his "leave". Went to the next job and didn't think I'd figure it all out. Sent notice to his new work. They declined it. Had to go tell his old work about his new work to get the withholding to end there and start at new work. Took me a while, but insurance was started again. To this day we still have medical bills he bankrupted while he was court ordered to have insurance and pay 50/50 after deductible. I'm making the payments. If I didn't have the youngest, I'd take every ounce of it all. But I have her to care for, and that just is not fair to her. Oh wait, did I add that he filed bankruptcy last year? So I have all of our marital bills, while he continues to amend his bankruptcy with the tons of legal fees and other bills created after he was forced out by legal order of the marital home. >Be ready to explain without judgment why you have different rules than he does. Be sure that they know that you both love them and that one parent's love isn't any more or less valuable than the other's, you just have different styles of parenting because you're two different people and you disagree. Yup. I totally agree. But for some reason, without the counseling I just can't see this little one getting over the fact that her father has "skipped" over her for so long. The resentment she has toward him comes from his decisions. I begged him to continue a relationship with her, to make sure she and her sister understood that he was busy helping their brother do better, and that he was not "forgetting about them". I begged him to assist in reforming a relationship with our son. Not for myself. For our son. >Be sure that they know that you have confidence that they are good people who will be good adults and that they can come to you for advice any time and you will not judge them or debase their father to them. Agreed. Back to the same problem though. Their father judged the girls for standing up to him about their brother. >I don't know what it is that your ex has done to make you so angry. He really doesn't have me angry. He frustrates me. He knows for a fact that these children need him. He knows they need their mother as well. Ironically, I'm not really sure what they need me for, except for a punching bag, verbal abuse, or money. But maybe someday that will change. But not with the way things are right now. >I do know that if the two of you walked into any family court I'm familiar with (and I am) you'd both be admonished to figure it out before the court orders you into an arrangement you can't live with, Honestly, I personally could live with any agreement. Agree to what really? I get all the bills anyway, and those to come. That's okay, as long as they were for the good. But youngest won't go with him. I've never pressured her to tell me to many details. But I bet she has more information than anyone would want to know. And the court took her statements on both siblings already, on the stand, so I would imagine they will respect her wishes in regards to visitation. But going without visitations will only create a bigger mess in a few years if the oldest two don't settle down, or if some form of relationship isn't developed with dad before youngest becomes a teen. >and counseling that the court and the other party will have access to and can use against you in future hearings. It's not what you want. You know what, as messy as everything's gotten, I could care less what comes out in counseling. Everything needs to come out. True or untrue. Because every day the oldest two are told more and more lies. I'd rather confront them head on now, than try to figure them all out later. That's something that has hurt us all along. Personally, the youngest is so little in maturity (held back) that she will do better forming a relationship with her father in a few years or sooner. I say that because she has that sort of personality. But right now, she is scared of her brother, and I can't change that with the behavior he shows to everyone. Her sister's lies about what has happened in the past and what she knows happened is a whole another issue. She loves her father, but just doesn't want to get caught up in all the drama. And I know he loves her too. Thanks for listening...I think you guys are right. I hafta find someone to talk to, and youngest too. [/QUOTE]
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