Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
General Discussions
Family of Origin
After Narcissistic Abuse Link
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 678721" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Okay. So, this wasn't very clear. The person who hurts others develops hatred for them once the idealized person, place, or thing turns out not to be the ideal they believed themselves less than and held themselves in awe of. It isn't that they just drop them. Which would be a normal thing. It is that they drop and then stalk them, and try to destroy the once idealized person. It isn't that they hurt someone ~ we all hurt one another, all the time. It is that they do not stop doing what they do to hurt someone once they see that they really are hurting someone. It isn't that they call to talk things over, it is that they call and behave as though there is nothing to talk over. but they call, anyway. This is where it shades over into personality disorder, I think. We all have thoughts of revenge, but some of us act on them. Like, flipping someone the bird or honking the horn when we are driving. But some of us follow the other driver home. </p><p></p><p>I think I understand too that it has to do with refusing to take responsibility for ourselves.</p><p></p><p>The personality of the victim in relationship with someone like that would receive his or her satisfaction from everyone around them being happy. But if we were victimized in this way as children, we are unable to defend ourselves out in the world because we don't know what we want, except for everyone to be happy.</p><p></p><p>But wanting everyone to be happy is not helpful when our children are in the kinds of trouble that is happening to my children. So, I have to figure out how to be a stronger person. To do that, I have to re-understand what happened to me when I was a little girl so that I can re-interpret myself. That involves listening for negative tapes. It involves identifying abuse as abuse and forgiving myself for having been abused. It involves learning to see that child that was me with compassion. The child of an abused parent will have been taught to </p><p>see herself with contempt. Before we can honestly clear those toxic negative tapes, we must believe they were wrong.</p><p></p><p>Otherwise, we re-traumatize ourselves.</p><p></p><p>So, we have to be aware, in our healing. We need to recognize vulnerability and understand how to stay steady state in the face of it.</p><p></p><p>That is where Work and Copa's concept of Germany and of the Sleeping Beauty Kiss enter the picture.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Again, it is a matter of extremes, probably. When it edges over into verbal or physical abuse to twist the victim and shape them into a consistent mirror for the perpetrator's grandiosity, that is what I think they mean when they describe malignant narcissism. The reason this matters here is not to name someone with a nasty psychological-sounding name, but to recognize whether we bear the scars of interacting with someone we loved, but who somehow does not seem to love us. And maybe, somehow hates us, instead. Or is playing some game where the win is something we just don't understand. And so, they tell us we don't think right, or we are too sensitive, or they tell us nothing at all because what they want us to know is that we deserve nothing, not even an explanation.</p><p></p><p>So, already damaged, we take the blame for their behaviors. And we walk around all guilty and have PTSD complexly and startle reflexes and fearsome perfectionism and etc.</p><p></p><p>Like when my mother raised her hand as though she were going to slap me when I was nearly sixty years old. And thought it was funny. So...I sort of thought it was funny too, except that I didn't think it was funny.</p><p></p><p>I was shocked.</p><p></p><p>It was instant ~ I don't know. But I was a grandmother visiting my own mother with my own grandchildren and all at once, I was thrown into some weird place where hitting people (Me!?!) is supposed to be funny. </p><p></p><p>Well, anyway.</p><p></p><p>If we read something that resonates with us, then we know where and how to concentrate on our healing.</p><p></p><p>So, for me, to understand that there are people in the world who do things they know will hurt another person because the abuser has a personality disorder that has a name and a set of symptoms helps me to get it, down deep where it matters, that I am not guilty. It goes back to damaged, not defective. If we are damaged, and if we can create a template for who we might have been had we never been damaged, then we have a clearer guideline for healing.</p><p></p><p>We can know what that looks like.</p><p></p><p>Then, it is only a matter of time and bravery.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>For so many of us, just being out of that circle of abuse is healing over time. This is definitely the case, for me. Of course we can't run around letting people pretend to hit us and thinking that is funny when we are visiting with our grands.</p><p></p><p>I am still so surprised that happened. I didn't know what to do then and do you know what? I would not know what to do now, either.</p><p></p><p>Even after all this work we have done. </p><p></p><p>Okay, so here is the answer to that one. Now, I would know it was wrong. Now, I would not be thrown into that foggy place where I experience ~ I don't know. Time slippage, maybe.</p><p></p><p>But you know, when they laugh like it isn't a big deal....</p><p></p><p>I recognize that my inability to make a judgment call on that is an artifact of abuse.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>It has nothing to do with anyone but ourselves. Name calling with medical terms would not help us to heal. But knowing where and how we may have been wounded can show us a way to come back from it.</p><p>It takes courage to face our own abandonment issues, or what happened to us inside during episodes of physical or verbal abuse. We only know what we were told about why it was okay to do that to us. Which is what my mom was doing the day she drew back her arm as though to strike or slap and then laughed like it was funny. It was the weirdest thing. I was a married lady / registered nurse / writer / dancer / grandmother. But in that sudden instant, I was none of those things. </p><p></p><p>Strange, huh.</p><p></p><p>We need information to confront those things we believed were true about us. And while the information may not be absolutely correct and while we are not making diagnoses here, the information can help us determine not only how to see the strange things our families do, but to understand with great clarity that there are wonderful,</p><p>strengthening things they do not do.</p><p></p><p>And that is how we heal.</p><p></p><p>We provide those strengthening things for ourselves.</p><p></p><p>When we know in our hearts that not only were they wrong to do what they did do, but that the are bad people, because good people behave very differently toward those who love them, then we can hold ourselves with true compassion. Not just ourselves, but everyone, really. We are all doing everything we know to make our good lives. Each of us has been hurt at some level, and all of us are carrying as much as we can bear. It matters very much that we can see that, so that we can see ourselves and one another clearly and can choose compassion. This is not about labeling or hurting back or judging. There's been too much of that already. This is about how to be human, and about how to be brave, and about how to learn to be honest with ourselves and one another and how to be truly kind.</p><p></p><p>It's way harder than we knew to just sit with all of it.</p><p></p><p>But we can do it.</p><p></p><p>We are doing it.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>Boy, you guys. I still can't believe my mom did that. It is like, this unbelievable thing that broke the fabric of reality for that instant.</p><p></p><p>And then, life (and the visit) went on.</p><p></p><p>We grew up all disconnected like that.</p><p></p><p>So, pretty much, what we are learning, here on FOO Chronicles, is how to believe that what happened to us really did happen.</p><p></p><p>There it is, again. Who is the liar, here.</p><p></p><p>We need to stand true, and believe in and take responsibility for ourselves. All that other stuff is way in the past, and doesn't matter. Believing in ourselves matters, very much.</p><p></p><p>It can change everything.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 678721, member: 17461"] Okay. So, this wasn't very clear. The person who hurts others develops hatred for them once the idealized person, place, or thing turns out not to be the ideal they believed themselves less than and held themselves in awe of. It isn't that they just drop them. Which would be a normal thing. It is that they drop and then stalk them, and try to destroy the once idealized person. It isn't that they hurt someone ~ we all hurt one another, all the time. It is that they do not stop doing what they do to hurt someone once they see that they really are hurting someone. It isn't that they call to talk things over, it is that they call and behave as though there is nothing to talk over. but they call, anyway. This is where it shades over into personality disorder, I think. We all have thoughts of revenge, but some of us act on them. Like, flipping someone the bird or honking the horn when we are driving. But some of us follow the other driver home. I think I understand too that it has to do with refusing to take responsibility for ourselves. The personality of the victim in relationship with someone like that would receive his or her satisfaction from everyone around them being happy. But if we were victimized in this way as children, we are unable to defend ourselves out in the world because we don't know what we want, except for everyone to be happy. But wanting everyone to be happy is not helpful when our children are in the kinds of trouble that is happening to my children. So, I have to figure out how to be a stronger person. To do that, I have to re-understand what happened to me when I was a little girl so that I can re-interpret myself. That involves listening for negative tapes. It involves identifying abuse as abuse and forgiving myself for having been abused. It involves learning to see that child that was me with compassion. The child of an abused parent will have been taught to see herself with contempt. Before we can honestly clear those toxic negative tapes, we must believe they were wrong. Otherwise, we re-traumatize ourselves. So, we have to be aware, in our healing. We need to recognize vulnerability and understand how to stay steady state in the face of it. That is where Work and Copa's concept of Germany and of the Sleeping Beauty Kiss enter the picture. *** Again, it is a matter of extremes, probably. When it edges over into verbal or physical abuse to twist the victim and shape them into a consistent mirror for the perpetrator's grandiosity, that is what I think they mean when they describe malignant narcissism. The reason this matters here is not to name someone with a nasty psychological-sounding name, but to recognize whether we bear the scars of interacting with someone we loved, but who somehow does not seem to love us. And maybe, somehow hates us, instead. Or is playing some game where the win is something we just don't understand. And so, they tell us we don't think right, or we are too sensitive, or they tell us nothing at all because what they want us to know is that we deserve nothing, not even an explanation. So, already damaged, we take the blame for their behaviors. And we walk around all guilty and have PTSD complexly and startle reflexes and fearsome perfectionism and etc. Like when my mother raised her hand as though she were going to slap me when I was nearly sixty years old. And thought it was funny. So...I sort of thought it was funny too, except that I didn't think it was funny. I was shocked. It was instant ~ I don't know. But I was a grandmother visiting my own mother with my own grandchildren and all at once, I was thrown into some weird place where hitting people (Me!?!) is supposed to be funny. Well, anyway. If we read something that resonates with us, then we know where and how to concentrate on our healing. So, for me, to understand that there are people in the world who do things they know will hurt another person because the abuser has a personality disorder that has a name and a set of symptoms helps me to get it, down deep where it matters, that I am not guilty. It goes back to damaged, not defective. If we are damaged, and if we can create a template for who we might have been had we never been damaged, then we have a clearer guideline for healing. We can know what that looks like. Then, it is only a matter of time and bravery. *** For so many of us, just being out of that circle of abuse is healing over time. This is definitely the case, for me. Of course we can't run around letting people pretend to hit us and thinking that is funny when we are visiting with our grands. I am still so surprised that happened. I didn't know what to do then and do you know what? I would not know what to do now, either. Even after all this work we have done. Okay, so here is the answer to that one. Now, I would know it was wrong. Now, I would not be thrown into that foggy place where I experience ~ I don't know. Time slippage, maybe. But you know, when they laugh like it isn't a big deal.... I recognize that my inability to make a judgment call on that is an artifact of abuse. *** It has nothing to do with anyone but ourselves. Name calling with medical terms would not help us to heal. But knowing where and how we may have been wounded can show us a way to come back from it. It takes courage to face our own abandonment issues, or what happened to us inside during episodes of physical or verbal abuse. We only know what we were told about why it was okay to do that to us. Which is what my mom was doing the day she drew back her arm as though to strike or slap and then laughed like it was funny. It was the weirdest thing. I was a married lady / registered nurse / writer / dancer / grandmother. But in that sudden instant, I was none of those things. Strange, huh. We need information to confront those things we believed were true about us. And while the information may not be absolutely correct and while we are not making diagnoses here, the information can help us determine not only how to see the strange things our families do, but to understand with great clarity that there are wonderful, strengthening things they do not do. And that is how we heal. We provide those strengthening things for ourselves. When we know in our hearts that not only were they wrong to do what they did do, but that the are bad people, because good people behave very differently toward those who love them, then we can hold ourselves with true compassion. Not just ourselves, but everyone, really. We are all doing everything we know to make our good lives. Each of us has been hurt at some level, and all of us are carrying as much as we can bear. It matters very much that we can see that, so that we can see ourselves and one another clearly and can choose compassion. This is not about labeling or hurting back or judging. There's been too much of that already. This is about how to be human, and about how to be brave, and about how to learn to be honest with ourselves and one another and how to be truly kind. It's way harder than we knew to just sit with all of it. But we can do it. We are doing it. :O) Boy, you guys. I still can't believe my mom did that. It is like, this unbelievable thing that broke the fabric of reality for that instant. And then, life (and the visit) went on. We grew up all disconnected like that. So, pretty much, what we are learning, here on FOO Chronicles, is how to believe that what happened to us really did happen. There it is, again. Who is the liar, here. We need to stand true, and believe in and take responsibility for ourselves. All that other stuff is way in the past, and doesn't matter. Believing in ourselves matters, very much. It can change everything. Cedar [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
General Discussions
Family of Origin
After Narcissistic Abuse Link
Top