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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 678828" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>I can understand this. That is what perfectionism is about, right? If everything is good, if everyone is happy, then the bad things will not happen. Which is about guilt and global responsibility foisted onto the developing child by the grandiosity addict parent. To me it is, you guys. I am wondering about my own perfectionism and will to control. In response, I am remembering questioning myself pretty mercilessly about whether the weird things happening at those family dinners I tried to make had to do with my own jealousy or with my ~ I don't know. Like, overweening pride at believing in the dinner. Or having a house. Or having dishes. All kinds of things.</p><p></p><p>Most of which I then blamed on D H.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>But as I am coming through into healthier, I recognize in this kind of thinking too, that same old global shame/responsible for everything victim mindset. We sift through it until we find the why to explain what they've done. And it seems to me that the worst things we come up with are the ones we believe about ourselves.</p><p></p><p>I don't know how to stop doing that.</p><p></p><p>Brene Brown's "sit with the feelings", probably.</p><p></p><p>So, that is what I will do, then.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Perfectionism must be on a continuum, too. And control issues.</p><p></p><p>NASA must make every effort to exert control, or the spacecraft would never make it home from the moon.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Grandiosity.</p><p></p><p>I always go back to that because I can feel it there, in the memories of my mother. A thick, chuckling thing; fat, and the eyes vacant. What do I see in my sister. I seem not to have enough interest in her to have seen her at all. She is behind me, when I do see her. </p><p></p><p>Safe.</p><p></p><p>Not in the line of fire.</p><p></p><p>She is safe, he is safe, the baby is safe.</p><p></p><p>Except that the baby wasn't safe. </p><p></p><p>She may have been part of keeping everything clean and happy. Her happiness, I mean. My sister's. Until she did what she did. And until, in that instant, I stopped being ashamed of myself for what was happening with and to my children (those poops ~ which I can call the but no one else had better) and began protecting them from her dirty rotten way she sees them with such glee. </p><p></p><p>Which I should have been doing all along.</p><p></p><p>Except that what the kids were doing really was wrong. And I really was embarrassed and appalled and etc.</p><p></p><p>Or it could be that I am off on a grandiosity tour of my own. Hurting people who cannot defend themselves because I am doing it anonymously.</p><p></p><p>Who is the liar here.</p><p></p><p>That must be a question we ask ourselves at every level of healing. So, that is good, then. Integrity, to the degree that we can manage it, matters.</p><p></p><p>Sort of like quality control at the spinach factory.</p><p></p><p>On Popeye. On those old Popeye the Sailor Man cartoons.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I am doing good work this morning. What I meant to post on in response to your comment IC is this question: How does hating the sisters have to do with control issues? Is it that they just wish us gone altogether? Then, why do they keep calling and etc. (Other than my sister, who is shunning me too, this time. Or, is being shunned by me. Because truly you guys, I could call them every single day. But I do not because I want this space and time.) </p><p></p><p>How is that we see it again and again that there will be that one sibling who attempts to dominate the first parent and succeeds in dominating the remaining parent? Or is it that the parent and the sibling are the same genetic makeup. Why do the sisters seem to need to see us dirtied? </p><p></p><p>We don't do that to them. (Except for me, posting away here the way I do, saying awful things and meaning every word.)</p><p></p><p>Bad Cedar. </p><p></p><p>(Who is the liar, here.)</p><p></p><p>But we hear it so often. The maladjusted sibling eliciting allies. In new husbands, in their own children, in extended family. Creating that wicked dynamic: "When did you stop beating your wife?" </p><p></p><p>So, that would be my question. How does hating us (other than that we are pseudo mom and carry the sister's hatred of the real mother and who knows what else in that nasty mix) ~ how does hating us and destroying our reputations and eliciting allies and turning everything into a contest instead for just one time, that freaking family dinner...how does that fit into the control mindset.</p><p></p><p>What does destroying us have to do with controlling their own lives when we are all adults, now? When we could put everything behind us and begin healing and accepting both ourselves and one another?</p><p></p><p>That piece I don't understand. Why do they devote that kind of energy to dirtying our reputations? (What would Cedar do. So, the laughter then had to do with them knowing exactly what the deal was that they both were entering in to. Maybe, that is why they told me about it and found it so hilarious.) </p><p></p><p>And why I felt a dark chill. And never forgot it. And post about it here all the time.</p><p></p><p>Because I know, too.</p><p></p><p>But why do they do that. When it would be just as easy not to.</p><p></p><p>And here is another question. So, if they know they have lied to create certain interpretations of us, then how is it possible for them to take pleasure in having their interpretations of us validated by people who don't know us? Husbands. Extended family. Anyone.</p><p></p><p>And it always does happen that one day, the husbands come face to face with it enough times that they understand the person they are married to is nothing like the person they married.</p><p></p><p>But everyone is destroyed, already.</p><p></p><p>Everyone.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p><p></p><p>So, okay. Needing to control might be ~ probably is, now that I think about it ~ a need to not be exposed as the liar.</p><p></p><p>Oh oh, you guys.</p><p></p><p>There is it again.</p><p></p><p>Who is the liar here.</p><p></p><p>That must be a pivotal fulcrum of a question.</p><p></p><p>Which makes sense, doesn't it.</p><p></p><p>So IC, would the answer be that the sisters (and the moms, in my case) do what they do to disparage us and destroy our reputations even to ourselves (remember the lady driver you guys, and the eye rolling) because who we are really makes what they have constructed of us a pretty obvious lie. </p><p></p><p>And that is what they are controlling. Once again, which is what we get to when we get to the core issue in any kind of abuse, there is nothing personal to the abused person, to the victim, in what the abuser does.</p><p></p><p>Abusers abuse because they are abusers.</p><p></p><p>So does the question become what is the matter with us that we refuse to allow ourselves to know what we know.</p><p></p><p>Why does it hurt us to think of those we claim to love and no matter what, really do seem to love and to miss...it must be that the question of who the liar is here is the primary question.</p><p></p><p>The question Joseph must have answered Copa and everybody, to have never bought in to the slave mindset.</p><p></p><p>Who is the liar here.</p><p></p><p>Maybe, that is the question that matters most of all.</p><p></p><p>Because the essential lie the abuser continues to try, with all her might, to impose?</p><p></p><p>Is who they taught us we were.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 678828, member: 17461"] I can understand this. That is what perfectionism is about, right? If everything is good, if everyone is happy, then the bad things will not happen. Which is about guilt and global responsibility foisted onto the developing child by the grandiosity addict parent. To me it is, you guys. I am wondering about my own perfectionism and will to control. In response, I am remembering questioning myself pretty mercilessly about whether the weird things happening at those family dinners I tried to make had to do with my own jealousy or with my ~ I don't know. Like, overweening pride at believing in the dinner. Or having a house. Or having dishes. All kinds of things. Most of which I then blamed on D H. :O) *** But as I am coming through into healthier, I recognize in this kind of thinking too, that same old global shame/responsible for everything victim mindset. We sift through it until we find the why to explain what they've done. And it seems to me that the worst things we come up with are the ones we believe about ourselves. I don't know how to stop doing that. Brene Brown's "sit with the feelings", probably. So, that is what I will do, then. *** Perfectionism must be on a continuum, too. And control issues. NASA must make every effort to exert control, or the spacecraft would never make it home from the moon. *** Grandiosity. I always go back to that because I can feel it there, in the memories of my mother. A thick, chuckling thing; fat, and the eyes vacant. What do I see in my sister. I seem not to have enough interest in her to have seen her at all. She is behind me, when I do see her. Safe. Not in the line of fire. She is safe, he is safe, the baby is safe. Except that the baby wasn't safe. She may have been part of keeping everything clean and happy. Her happiness, I mean. My sister's. Until she did what she did. And until, in that instant, I stopped being ashamed of myself for what was happening with and to my children (those poops ~ which I can call the but no one else had better) and began protecting them from her dirty rotten way she sees them with such glee. Which I should have been doing all along. Except that what the kids were doing really was wrong. And I really was embarrassed and appalled and etc. Or it could be that I am off on a grandiosity tour of my own. Hurting people who cannot defend themselves because I am doing it anonymously. Who is the liar here. That must be a question we ask ourselves at every level of healing. So, that is good, then. Integrity, to the degree that we can manage it, matters. Sort of like quality control at the spinach factory. On Popeye. On those old Popeye the Sailor Man cartoons. *** I am doing good work this morning. What I meant to post on in response to your comment IC is this question: How does hating the sisters have to do with control issues? Is it that they just wish us gone altogether? Then, why do they keep calling and etc. (Other than my sister, who is shunning me too, this time. Or, is being shunned by me. Because truly you guys, I could call them every single day. But I do not because I want this space and time.) How is that we see it again and again that there will be that one sibling who attempts to dominate the first parent and succeeds in dominating the remaining parent? Or is it that the parent and the sibling are the same genetic makeup. Why do the sisters seem to need to see us dirtied? We don't do that to them. (Except for me, posting away here the way I do, saying awful things and meaning every word.) Bad Cedar. (Who is the liar, here.) But we hear it so often. The maladjusted sibling eliciting allies. In new husbands, in their own children, in extended family. Creating that wicked dynamic: "When did you stop beating your wife?" So, that would be my question. How does hating us (other than that we are pseudo mom and carry the sister's hatred of the real mother and who knows what else in that nasty mix) ~ how does hating us and destroying our reputations and eliciting allies and turning everything into a contest instead for just one time, that freaking family dinner...how does that fit into the control mindset. What does destroying us have to do with controlling their own lives when we are all adults, now? When we could put everything behind us and begin healing and accepting both ourselves and one another? That piece I don't understand. Why do they devote that kind of energy to dirtying our reputations? (What would Cedar do. So, the laughter then had to do with them knowing exactly what the deal was that they both were entering in to. Maybe, that is why they told me about it and found it so hilarious.) And why I felt a dark chill. And never forgot it. And post about it here all the time. Because I know, too. But why do they do that. When it would be just as easy not to. And here is another question. So, if they know they have lied to create certain interpretations of us, then how is it possible for them to take pleasure in having their interpretations of us validated by people who don't know us? Husbands. Extended family. Anyone. And it always does happen that one day, the husbands come face to face with it enough times that they understand the person they are married to is nothing like the person they married. But everyone is destroyed, already. Everyone. Cedar So, okay. Needing to control might be ~ probably is, now that I think about it ~ a need to not be exposed as the liar. Oh oh, you guys. There is it again. Who is the liar here. That must be a pivotal fulcrum of a question. Which makes sense, doesn't it. So IC, would the answer be that the sisters (and the moms, in my case) do what they do to disparage us and destroy our reputations even to ourselves (remember the lady driver you guys, and the eye rolling) because who we are really makes what they have constructed of us a pretty obvious lie. And that is what they are controlling. Once again, which is what we get to when we get to the core issue in any kind of abuse, there is nothing personal to the abused person, to the victim, in what the abuser does. Abusers abuse because they are abusers. So does the question become what is the matter with us that we refuse to allow ourselves to know what we know. Why does it hurt us to think of those we claim to love and no matter what, really do seem to love and to miss...it must be that the question of who the liar is here is the primary question. The question Joseph must have answered Copa and everybody, to have never bought in to the slave mindset. Who is the liar here. Maybe, that is the question that matters most of all. Because the essential lie the abuser continues to try, with all her might, to impose? Is who they taught us we were. [/QUOTE]
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