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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 709284" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>I know. It is so hard to explain. But there are these issues that if you don't say anything and oppose--make one feel compliant and without a self-will. It feels symbolic. In my own case I am realizing it has something to do with my past. That it is not my present that necessitates taking a stand. But then if I do, it is forcing growth for me and for M, and for the two of us. I became less afraid, and he becomes less knee-jerk dominant.</p><p></p><p>We are dealing with radically different personalities here, Lil, but a similar dynamic, I think. You are so strong and Jabber so kind. M is harder than Jabber and I do not feel like I have your strength.</p><p>Now this is interesting. It raises the question of whether your distress had to do in part from your own sense of falling short, your own sense about yourself that you were not completing your responsibilities.</p><p></p><p>That this was a intra-psychic relationship issue. Of course that makes sense for me too. Duh.</p><p></p><p>I had a father who died on skid row. He died a miserable alcoholic and off and on used opiates up to and including heroin. He was morally corrupt, bankrupt and sadistic.</p><p></p><p>All of my adult life I have had within me this overarching need to save men.</p><p></p><p>And now my son is a man.</p><p></p><p>And it has felt life and death to me. Not only his life and death, but my own.</p><p></p><p>More and more I feel like I am going to die, or want to die, when I am ineffective with him, when I feel helpless and failed at saving him.</p><p></p><p>Looked at in light of your post, I see the issue is in myself. I always knew it in the abstract, but until lately, did not so clearly confront it, in the sense that I HAVE TO SAVE MYSELF. Nobody else will.</p><p></p><p>M told me last night or this morning when I told him that sometimes when I felt so despairing, I googled "I want to die." He said: tell me next time you feel this way because I want to leave. I do not want to be here with you if you take such a step.</p><p></p><p>I said, <em>I do not want to kill myself. I just feel like I want to die.</em></p><p></p><p>He responded:<em> the two are not as separate as you pretend. One follows the other. If you do not save yourself, you are going down that road.</em></p><p></p><p>Yesterday I realized that I am the only mother I have left, or will ever have. That I am failing myself if I do not step up. And that hundreds of thousands of moments I have failed myself, and failed to stand up for myself, to do nourishing and sustaining things. My will has so much been tied up in the self-punishment about my mother and son, that I failed myself.</p><p></p><p>I am realizing that if men all around me (and my mother, too) are falling like flies has to be peripheral and secondary, BECAUSE IT HAS TO MATTER THAT I SAVE MYSELF.</p><p></p><p>I could not in the end save any of them.</p><p></p><p>The caps and the repetition are so that I pay attention.</p><p></p><p>Thanks Lil. You are doing so good. Glad to touch base with you. (Sorry to hijack your thread.) I care so much about you and Jabber. And indirectly about your son.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 709284, member: 18958"] I know. It is so hard to explain. But there are these issues that if you don't say anything and oppose--make one feel compliant and without a self-will. It feels symbolic. In my own case I am realizing it has something to do with my past. That it is not my present that necessitates taking a stand. But then if I do, it is forcing growth for me and for M, and for the two of us. I became less afraid, and he becomes less knee-jerk dominant. We are dealing with radically different personalities here, Lil, but a similar dynamic, I think. You are so strong and Jabber so kind. M is harder than Jabber and I do not feel like I have your strength. Now this is interesting. It raises the question of whether your distress had to do in part from your own sense of falling short, your own sense about yourself that you were not completing your responsibilities. That this was a intra-psychic relationship issue. Of course that makes sense for me too. Duh. I had a father who died on skid row. He died a miserable alcoholic and off and on used opiates up to and including heroin. He was morally corrupt, bankrupt and sadistic. All of my adult life I have had within me this overarching need to save men. And now my son is a man. And it has felt life and death to me. Not only his life and death, but my own. More and more I feel like I am going to die, or want to die, when I am ineffective with him, when I feel helpless and failed at saving him. Looked at in light of your post, I see the issue is in myself. I always knew it in the abstract, but until lately, did not so clearly confront it, in the sense that I HAVE TO SAVE MYSELF. Nobody else will. M told me last night or this morning when I told him that sometimes when I felt so despairing, I googled "I want to die." He said: tell me next time you feel this way because I want to leave. I do not want to be here with you if you take such a step. I said, [I]I do not want to kill myself. I just feel like I want to die.[/I] He responded:[I] the two are not as separate as you pretend. One follows the other. If you do not save yourself, you are going down that road.[/I] Yesterday I realized that I am the only mother I have left, or will ever have. That I am failing myself if I do not step up. And that hundreds of thousands of moments I have failed myself, and failed to stand up for myself, to do nourishing and sustaining things. My will has so much been tied up in the self-punishment about my mother and son, that I failed myself. I am realizing that if men all around me (and my mother, too) are falling like flies has to be peripheral and secondary, BECAUSE IT HAS TO MATTER THAT I SAVE MYSELF. I could not in the end save any of them. The caps and the repetition are so that I pay attention. Thanks Lil. You are doing so good. Glad to touch base with you. (Sorry to hijack your thread.) I care so much about you and Jabber. And indirectly about your son. [/QUOTE]
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