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<blockquote data-quote="New Leaf" data-source="post: 671516" data-attributes="member: 19522"><p>Hi Lil and Jabber,</p><p>I have been following along, reading this thread, and seeing it through the eyes of a mother of daughters. Two, in particular, who have struggled with alcoholism, addiction and their searching for their own identities. My comments are just my opinion, but I thought I might do so, just to throw some stuff out there for you to consider. What you do, or do not do, is entirely up to you. I have no right to give you any "shoulds".</p><p></p><p></p><p>These are two very young people who have not even found themselves yet. This is tough.</p><p> There within lies the struggle, yes?</p><p>How much do we help, given the track record. What are the possibilities?</p><p>Any sign of change, of progress, we grasp at. We want happiness for our children, but they also have to want it for themselves and understand what the definition of happy is. Is it accepting responsibility, is it working towards that, is it....partying?</p><p></p><p> He does have the ability to have all of this, he has yet to see it, to make it happen, on his own.</p><p></p><p> On his own, very important, to take hold of life, get out there and do it. It gives one a sense of accomplishment.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, there is no one way. We all have to do what we do, and learn the lesson of it.</p><p></p><p>Yes, that is key.</p><p></p><p>There is much wisdom in this. Helping him isn't really helping him. It is not just the figuring out how to live on his own, take care of himself. He doesn't really know who he is yet, but is focusing on this girl.</p><p>This very young girl who is fraught with problems of her own, very troubling problems, blacking out with alcohol. That is very troubling.</p><p>Mix the two together.......Add the responsibilities, bills, complexities of living together, chance of pregnancy while both may be using...ouch.</p><p>We want to look at the bright side for our children.The bright possibilities. This may work, it may not. Who knows?</p><p>My two girls are different, yet similar. They have struggled with addictive issues. One of these, is the need to be with someone, anyone will do for the oldest, the middle has been with an abusive, addicted boyfriend and had three children. My grands lives are chaotic, miserable.</p><p>My daughters have not learned to love themselves. That said, how are they capable of truly loving someone else?</p><p>They want relationships based on desperation and have made the wrong choices so many times. Watching this unfold has been horrible.</p><p></p><p> Yes my friends, just advice, from one who has been there watching my daughters flail over and over again. The red flags for me, with your son and this girlfriend, is the using. They are both so young. This is a big responsibility, being a couple, living together. But in the end all, they are adults, it is their choice. What role you both play in this is up to you.</p><p></p><p></p><p><em>"But I know, I really know, that he probably hasn't changed much since I we tossed him out a year ago." </em>This is your sensible self speaking to you, Lil. Listen to her.</p><p><em>He seems so sincere in his desire to make this relationship work and to get a place of their own. </em>This is your hopeful self speaking, if he truly is sincere, then<em> he will make it work.</em></p><p>But now, there is also another troubled person in the mix, this girl. This girl who is someones daughter.</p><p> One day at at a time.</p><p></p><p> Yes I agree with this. There is logic to it, stepping aside from the emotion of it all.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hard....navigate.... he has to find his path. Years down the road, when he has regrets, as we all do, he has to say to himself, "What was I thinking", not "Why didn't my parents tell me?" Of course you have told him, but in retrospect, by helping him opens up a whole other message.</p><p> I agree.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is my mother of daughters voice. This girl with her fears, is <em>right</em>. I am not saying that your son cannot turn around and fix this. But he needs to concentrate on himself and fix himself first.</p><p>This girl needs to fix herself, first.</p><p>That is my instinct with this, and also my experience, watching my two girls struggle. As they have made a mess of their lives, they have made a mess of their boyfriends, their childrens' lives. Stunted by addiction, in every way. All of them.</p><p></p><p> I have done this as well. Wanting to see my children happy.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a very real possibility.</p><p></p><p></p><p>She needs to stabilize herself.</p><p></p><p> If she were your daughter, would you recommend this move? Your son is your son, whom you love, problems and all.</p><p>This girl is someones daughter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>He may be really serious, this may work, but it is up to him. You are not turning your backs by not helping, you are giving him his wings. You are saying to him, "If you really are serious about this and want to make it work, <em>you can do it</em>."</p><p> This is a good exercise.</p><p></p><p> Very true.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Love this story, thank you Tanya.</p><p> Yes he does.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is great, I still find it hard.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>He wants a girlfriend and says she's the only one who doesn't think he's a loser. </em></strong>Is he settling, then Lil? Coming from a point of desperation, has he picked someone with her own very real problems because he is settling? Whatever the case, he will have to figure this out on his own. There is much to this statement. I read it as "She is the only one that will have me the way I am."</p><p>So, what possibilities does he have to change, how will he find himself?</p><p></p><p>Addiction and enabling, rescuing, settling.</p><p>This is the life my daughters have led, and it is hard to watch.</p><p>Each of them choosing mates who live the same lifestyle, so they can continue on status quo.</p><p>Each of them struggling, not ever finding themselves and their potential, because they have found mates who are entrenched in the same lifestyle.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Same as above, this is frightening.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Me too, LIl.</p><p></p><p> Me, too.</p><p></p><p> Yes. These are two, very mixed up young adults.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't know about this one, Lil.</p><p>Especially after watching Tornado and Volcano for 11 years. Drawn to each other through addictive lifestyles, they are a wrecking ball. Add three children, <em>absolute misery</em>.</p><p></p><p>I hope I have not offended either of you. I hope you find peace in the decisions you make. The ultimate end of it, these are two adults, it is their responsibility to make this work. If they truly want it to, they will. It is a very, very shaky ground for a relationship for both of them</p><p></p><p>Nobody should just settle.</p><p>One has to prove one can help themselves, love themselves before they can truly help and love someone else.</p><p>There is time for you to think this over. </p><p>Try not to get sucked in it the swirly-whirly of it.</p><p></p><p>Peace and good day to you both</p><p>leafy</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="New Leaf, post: 671516, member: 19522"] Hi Lil and Jabber, I have been following along, reading this thread, and seeing it through the eyes of a mother of daughters. Two, in particular, who have struggled with alcoholism, addiction and their searching for their own identities. My comments are just my opinion, but I thought I might do so, just to throw some stuff out there for you to consider. What you do, or do not do, is entirely up to you. I have no right to give you any "shoulds". These are two very young people who have not even found themselves yet. This is tough. There within lies the struggle, yes? How much do we help, given the track record. What are the possibilities? Any sign of change, of progress, we grasp at. We want happiness for our children, but they also have to want it for themselves and understand what the definition of happy is. Is it accepting responsibility, is it working towards that, is it....partying? He does have the ability to have all of this, he has yet to see it, to make it happen, on his own. On his own, very important, to take hold of life, get out there and do it. It gives one a sense of accomplishment. Yes, there is no one way. We all have to do what we do, and learn the lesson of it. Yes, that is key. There is much wisdom in this. Helping him isn't really helping him. It is not just the figuring out how to live on his own, take care of himself. He doesn't really know who he is yet, but is focusing on this girl. This very young girl who is fraught with problems of her own, very troubling problems, blacking out with alcohol. That is very troubling. Mix the two together.......Add the responsibilities, bills, complexities of living together, chance of pregnancy while both may be using...ouch. We want to look at the bright side for our children.The bright possibilities. This may work, it may not. Who knows? My two girls are different, yet similar. They have struggled with addictive issues. One of these, is the need to be with someone, anyone will do for the oldest, the middle has been with an abusive, addicted boyfriend and had three children. My grands lives are chaotic, miserable. My daughters have not learned to love themselves. That said, how are they capable of truly loving someone else? They want relationships based on desperation and have made the wrong choices so many times. Watching this unfold has been horrible. Yes my friends, just advice, from one who has been there watching my daughters flail over and over again. The red flags for me, with your son and this girlfriend, is the using. They are both so young. This is a big responsibility, being a couple, living together. But in the end all, they are adults, it is their choice. What role you both play in this is up to you. [I]"But I know, I really know, that he probably hasn't changed much since I we tossed him out a year ago." [/I]This is your sensible self speaking to you, Lil. Listen to her. [I]He seems so sincere in his desire to make this relationship work and to get a place of their own. [/I]This is your hopeful self speaking, if he truly is sincere, then[I] he will make it work.[/I] But now, there is also another troubled person in the mix, this girl. This girl who is someones daughter. One day at at a time. Yes I agree with this. There is logic to it, stepping aside from the emotion of it all. Hard....navigate.... he has to find his path. Years down the road, when he has regrets, as we all do, he has to say to himself, "What was I thinking", not "Why didn't my parents tell me?" Of course you have told him, but in retrospect, by helping him opens up a whole other message. I agree. This is my mother of daughters voice. This girl with her fears, is [I]right[/I]. I am not saying that your son cannot turn around and fix this. But he needs to concentrate on himself and fix himself first. This girl needs to fix herself, first. That is my instinct with this, and also my experience, watching my two girls struggle. As they have made a mess of their lives, they have made a mess of their boyfriends, their childrens' lives. Stunted by addiction, in every way. All of them. I have done this as well. Wanting to see my children happy. This is a very real possibility. She needs to stabilize herself. If she were your daughter, would you recommend this move? Your son is your son, whom you love, problems and all. This girl is someones daughter. He may be really serious, this may work, but it is up to him. You are not turning your backs by not helping, you are giving him his wings. You are saying to him, "If you really are serious about this and want to make it work, [I]you can do it[/I]." This is a good exercise. Very true. Love this story, thank you Tanya. Yes he does. This is great, I still find it hard. [B][I]He wants a girlfriend and says she's the only one who doesn't think he's a loser. [/I][/B]Is he settling, then Lil? Coming from a point of desperation, has he picked someone with her own very real problems because he is settling? Whatever the case, he will have to figure this out on his own. There is much to this statement. I read it as "She is the only one that will have me the way I am." So, what possibilities does he have to change, how will he find himself? Addiction and enabling, rescuing, settling. This is the life my daughters have led, and it is hard to watch. Each of them choosing mates who live the same lifestyle, so they can continue on status quo. Each of them struggling, not ever finding themselves and their potential, because they have found mates who are entrenched in the same lifestyle. Same as above, this is frightening. Me too, LIl. Me, too. Yes. These are two, very mixed up young adults. Don't know about this one, Lil. Especially after watching Tornado and Volcano for 11 years. Drawn to each other through addictive lifestyles, they are a wrecking ball. Add three children, [I]absolute misery[/I]. I hope I have not offended either of you. I hope you find peace in the decisions you make. The ultimate end of it, these are two adults, it is their responsibility to make this work. If they truly want it to, they will. It is a very, very shaky ground for a relationship for both of them Nobody should just settle. One has to prove one can help themselves, love themselves before they can truly help and love someone else. There is time for you to think this over. Try not to get sucked in it the swirly-whirly of it. Peace and good day to you both leafy [/QUOTE]
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