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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 741064" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>I agree with you here SWOT. Let me explain what I mean.</p><p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">First. I do NOT believe this member should physically take responsibility for her mother's care. Absolutely not.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">What I mean is this: This member has absolutely no control here over what the daughter says, does or thinks. The daughter was out of line. She was taking power in a situation through what M calls acting like a martyr. He cannot stand when I or anybody else feels they have the right to call shots, or tries to manipulate based upon the fact that they allow themselves to be used, or trying to assert victimhood. This daughter is manipulating. She is giving voice to hostilities and pettiness on the basis of her supposed moral high ground. She is trying to shove it to her mother.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">This is wrong and bad. I am in 1000 percent agreement. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">But this is the position I take: This is a family system. The grandmother is described as always having been manipulative. She manipulates power. She seems to set up these conflicts. And even with dementia the character traits of people usually persist. Or get worse. But we cannot hold the mother/grandmother at this point as responsible to the same extent, if she is impaired. The others are.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">So. What I meant about the mother taking responsibility is to take the high road. Which to me is not debasing yourself. It is empowering yourself. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">Your mother, my mother poisoned the well of the sibling relationships of our families. Nobody could rise above it. It is too late for us.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">This mother knows what is going on. She loves her daughter. She does not believe her daughter is acting from meanness or smallness or self-interest. She does not believe her daughter is trying to hurt her grandmother. She recognizes the work and sacrifice and responsibility her child is taking on.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">But this mother feels guilt, I believe. Guilt that she should not feel. And she also feels a loss of legitimate authority with her daughter, that her daughter is running with. WRONG. The daughter consented to this responsibility. She deserves no POWER OR AUTHORITY OR RIGHTEOUSNESS because she took on this task. She chose it. I am channeling M here. She chose it. That's it. Let her do it. And let her take care of the responsibility. End of story.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left">The<span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"> lording over the mother. I agree. That is horrible.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">But the mother can let it go. She can focus on her work. Focus her life. Her responsibilities. And CHOOSE to feel gratitude to her child. And CHOOSE to feel pride in a daughter who has decided to live well, as a decent human being. </span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">The mother does not have to get into it with the daughter, tit for tat. She has no reason to be defensive when the daughter acts out of line. The daughter IS OUT OF LINE in her mouthiness. And she is out of line because she is concealing things that should be out in the open (the appointments) and she is being snarky and lording it over. But the Mom does NOT have to react. She is the MOM. I think this Mom feels guilt she should not feel. That is my point.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">I am in no way defending the daughter or criticizing the mom. But we can choose not to make family feuds worse. That is my mistake. Because I was so afraid of my sister I made the whole thing worse.</span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)"></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20)">The only way this daughter will ever apologize is if the mother steps outside of the conflict first. Within the conflict there can be no resolution.</span></p><p>I have humbled myself to my son many times. And it empowers him, and not in a good way. He begins to believe he is the Emperor of Life. So. I really do get this. I lost my phone which is a good thing because I am always at risk for begging my son to come back and taking total responsibility in a bad way.</p><p></p><p>What I meant is this mother take responsibility in a good way. Because she is big enough to do it. By big I mean strong, and good hearted. You and I unfortunately are very alike in that we seem to never feel very big. It is hard to explain. So I will stop here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 741064, member: 18958"] I agree with you here SWOT. Let me explain what I mean. [LEFT][COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)]First. I do NOT believe this member should physically take responsibility for her mother's care. Absolutely not. What I mean is this: This member has absolutely no control here over what the daughter says, does or thinks. The daughter was out of line. She was taking power in a situation through what M calls acting like a martyr. He cannot stand when I or anybody else feels they have the right to call shots, or tries to manipulate based upon the fact that they allow themselves to be used, or trying to assert victimhood. This daughter is manipulating. She is giving voice to hostilities and pettiness on the basis of her supposed moral high ground. She is trying to shove it to her mother. This is wrong and bad. I am in 1000 percent agreement. But this is the position I take: This is a family system. The grandmother is described as always having been manipulative. She manipulates power. She seems to set up these conflicts. And even with dementia the character traits of people usually persist. Or get worse. But we cannot hold the mother/grandmother at this point as responsible to the same extent, if she is impaired. The others are. So. What I meant about the mother taking responsibility is to take the high road. Which to me is not debasing yourself. It is empowering yourself. Your mother, my mother poisoned the well of the sibling relationships of our families. Nobody could rise above it. It is too late for us. This mother knows what is going on. She loves her daughter. She does not believe her daughter is acting from meanness or smallness or self-interest. She does not believe her daughter is trying to hurt her grandmother. She recognizes the work and sacrifice and responsibility her child is taking on. But this mother feels guilt, I believe. Guilt that she should not feel. And she also feels a loss of legitimate authority with her daughter, that her daughter is running with. WRONG. The daughter consented to this responsibility. She deserves no POWER OR AUTHORITY OR RIGHTEOUSNESS because she took on this task. She chose it. I am channeling M here. She chose it. That's it. Let her do it. And let her take care of the responsibility. End of story. [/COLOR] The[COLOR=rgb(20, 20, 20)] lording over the mother. I agree. That is horrible. But the mother can let it go. She can focus on her work. Focus her life. Her responsibilities. And CHOOSE to feel gratitude to her child. And CHOOSE to feel pride in a daughter who has decided to live well, as a decent human being. The mother does not have to get into it with the daughter, tit for tat. She has no reason to be defensive when the daughter acts out of line. The daughter IS OUT OF LINE in her mouthiness. And she is out of line because she is concealing things that should be out in the open (the appointments) and she is being snarky and lording it over. But the Mom does NOT have to react. She is the MOM. I think this Mom feels guilt she should not feel. That is my point. I am in no way defending the daughter or criticizing the mom. But we can choose not to make family feuds worse. That is my mistake. Because I was so afraid of my sister I made the whole thing worse. The only way this daughter will ever apologize is if the mother steps outside of the conflict first. Within the conflict there can be no resolution.[/COLOR][/LEFT] I have humbled myself to my son many times. And it empowers him, and not in a good way. He begins to believe he is the Emperor of Life. So. I really do get this. I lost my phone which is a good thing because I am always at risk for begging my son to come back and taking total responsibility in a bad way. What I meant is this mother take responsibility in a good way. Because she is big enough to do it. By big I mean strong, and good hearted. You and I unfortunately are very alike in that we seem to never feel very big. It is hard to explain. So I will stop here. [/QUOTE]
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