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difficult child threatened staff again.
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 265903" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I can hear your frustration, Shari.</p><p></p><p>My take on it - they SHOULD be able to at least describe the events leading up to the meltdown. They should, by now, with all your involvement and intervention, be much more alert to his triggers and what upsets him. They SHOULD be able to go back over things and recognise what set him off.</p><p></p><p>You shouldn't have to do all their thinking for them. And I think at the moment, that is what is happening. It's not fair on anybody. Certainly not on you or difficult child.</p><p></p><p>I can only guess, but I suspect what happened was that he was beginning to show signs of sleepiness and no way was the aide going to LET him fall asleep, because you had made it so clear that the IEP says to let him sleep. So okay, we won't let him go to sleep in the first place!</p><p></p><p>And again, wrong.</p><p></p><p>Then taking him to the closet, then probably standing there talking at him through the door or whatever, or possibly 'talking him up' on the way there ("You know we're doing this because you won't behave yourself, you're being punished, you have to learn to stop shouting at people, you have to learn to do as you're told.") That would certainly send difficult child 3 into a huge rage. Hey, it would have ME spitting & clawing at them!</p><p></p><p>A raging kid, especially such a young one, should not be held accountable for the specific 'crimes' they listed. It's all related, it's all connected, he simply can't control himself especially when he's upset. You've got all the reports under the sun to sow this - this means that this turns into punishing him purely because of who and what he is. As I have said so often before - it's like punishing the blind kid for making spelling mistakes while copying off the blackboard. it's just as unreasonable of them.</p><p></p><p>Something you could try - ask for a simple list of events, a recount. Use the word "recount", teachers understand that one. You want a historic list of what happened, who said what and when, what was happening. No value judgements please (although any offered should be noted, their presence in the recount is enlightening and shows a mindset and pre-judgement in the observer that shouldn't be there). You can aks what the standard procedure is, for kids being taken to the locker. How do you physically get a child to go with you? WHat do you say to them to ensure compliance? What other things do you say to the child? How do you know when it's time to take the child there? Time to let the child out? What determines the time-frame of actions?</p><p>All this is vital information for difficult child's therapists.</p><p></p><p>I'm betting that the aide was talking at him through the door and a lot of the "crimes" were triggered by her presence. Or someone's presence. Of course he would need to be under observation, in order to protect him from self-harm, but there are ways and there are ways.</p><p></p><p>It really does sound to me like you're being set up for failure. You shouldn't have to go in to help, as much as you have been. I'm glad you have been able to, but they should have used this as an opportunity to learn from you, not simply sit back and relax, using your presence as an excuse to wind back on aides.</p><p></p><p>I agree with you, Shari, that safe room is NOT the plae for him when he's frustrated. What he needs is somewhere that he can go to, to work. Or to talk about why he won't/can't comply. I also agree, this isn't him not wanting to work. There is another problem here and they just don't get it.</p><p></p><p>He could be refusing because he's tired. he could be feeling sleepy because he's bored. or he could be finding certain tasks too scary. For example, difficult child 3 would refuse to do writing tasks because (it turned out) his hands hurt. He also has trouble with open-ended questions, or anything he finds vague and undefined. "Choose a topic you like and write about it" is red rag to difficult child 3. If you tell him, "Write about X," you will get a better response. But for a long time, ANY writing task would produce various kinds of avoidance behaviour in him.</p><p></p><p>And think about it - your difficult child is being trained to throw tantrums to get out of work. If there is ANY avoidance component to difficult child, then removing him to the safe room is still letting him get out of doing the required task. if instead the escalation is ignored, or he is instead quickly removed to a quiet work area with the required work sheet, then he gets the message - this work WILL be done.</p><p></p><p>So another question to ask - get SpEd to make notes of when in the school day he has problems. Find out if it's before a break, or just after a break. Is it always the same topic? Or not? WHich topics was he working on before? Which topic are they changing to?</p><p></p><p>He also needs someone to sit with him and de-brief. It should be either you, Shari, at the end of the day, or a therapist. I don't trust these school staff (even the nice ones) to effectively debrief him without also programming him to give the asnwers tey expect. He has to be quesitoned VERY carewfully, again asking for pure recount. "What happend first? Then what? Describe it. How were you feeling at this point? Go on, tell me what happened next." No responses from you whatsoever. Make sure your quesitons don't prompt. Don't say, "How did you feel, I bet you were angry then," because of course he will agree with you, this then changes his memory of events.</p><p></p><p>Several possible triggers - </p><p></p><p>1) he's sleepy.</p><p></p><p>2) He's bored, and subsequently sleepy.</p><p></p><p>3) He was enjoying what he was doing before.</p><p></p><p>4) He really dislikes/finds too hard, what they want him to change to.</p><p></p><p>5) Someone is upsetting him, either an adult such as the aide or pretty boy, or another kid has previously (perhaps at the previous break, or perhaps subtly in the classroom) upset him, and he's taking longer to calm down about it. This is made worse when teachers don't see these things or refuse to listen when he tells them. We had big problems with this one.</p><p></p><p>6) Once he has been upset, his fuse will be much shorter and it will take far less for him to explode again.</p><p></p><p>Now, YOU know all this. The SpEd knows it intellectually but is either not taking it on board, or isn't being allowed to because one particular aide is ignoring all the advice and information.</p><p></p><p>You shouldn't have to think for them. It's not fair. I really do think that this principal, and probably at least one aide, is just praying for the day when you give up and take him out of the school; or alternatively, they have enough cause to make him go away in some other way.</p><p></p><p>Not right, not fair.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 265903, member: 1991"] I can hear your frustration, Shari. My take on it - they SHOULD be able to at least describe the events leading up to the meltdown. They should, by now, with all your involvement and intervention, be much more alert to his triggers and what upsets him. They SHOULD be able to go back over things and recognise what set him off. You shouldn't have to do all their thinking for them. And I think at the moment, that is what is happening. It's not fair on anybody. Certainly not on you or difficult child. I can only guess, but I suspect what happened was that he was beginning to show signs of sleepiness and no way was the aide going to LET him fall asleep, because you had made it so clear that the IEP says to let him sleep. So okay, we won't let him go to sleep in the first place! And again, wrong. Then taking him to the closet, then probably standing there talking at him through the door or whatever, or possibly 'talking him up' on the way there ("You know we're doing this because you won't behave yourself, you're being punished, you have to learn to stop shouting at people, you have to learn to do as you're told.") That would certainly send difficult child 3 into a huge rage. Hey, it would have ME spitting & clawing at them! A raging kid, especially such a young one, should not be held accountable for the specific 'crimes' they listed. It's all related, it's all connected, he simply can't control himself especially when he's upset. You've got all the reports under the sun to sow this - this means that this turns into punishing him purely because of who and what he is. As I have said so often before - it's like punishing the blind kid for making spelling mistakes while copying off the blackboard. it's just as unreasonable of them. Something you could try - ask for a simple list of events, a recount. Use the word "recount", teachers understand that one. You want a historic list of what happened, who said what and when, what was happening. No value judgements please (although any offered should be noted, their presence in the recount is enlightening and shows a mindset and pre-judgement in the observer that shouldn't be there). You can aks what the standard procedure is, for kids being taken to the locker. How do you physically get a child to go with you? WHat do you say to them to ensure compliance? What other things do you say to the child? How do you know when it's time to take the child there? Time to let the child out? What determines the time-frame of actions? All this is vital information for difficult child's therapists. I'm betting that the aide was talking at him through the door and a lot of the "crimes" were triggered by her presence. Or someone's presence. Of course he would need to be under observation, in order to protect him from self-harm, but there are ways and there are ways. It really does sound to me like you're being set up for failure. You shouldn't have to go in to help, as much as you have been. I'm glad you have been able to, but they should have used this as an opportunity to learn from you, not simply sit back and relax, using your presence as an excuse to wind back on aides. I agree with you, Shari, that safe room is NOT the plae for him when he's frustrated. What he needs is somewhere that he can go to, to work. Or to talk about why he won't/can't comply. I also agree, this isn't him not wanting to work. There is another problem here and they just don't get it. He could be refusing because he's tired. he could be feeling sleepy because he's bored. or he could be finding certain tasks too scary. For example, difficult child 3 would refuse to do writing tasks because (it turned out) his hands hurt. He also has trouble with open-ended questions, or anything he finds vague and undefined. "Choose a topic you like and write about it" is red rag to difficult child 3. If you tell him, "Write about X," you will get a better response. But for a long time, ANY writing task would produce various kinds of avoidance behaviour in him. And think about it - your difficult child is being trained to throw tantrums to get out of work. If there is ANY avoidance component to difficult child, then removing him to the safe room is still letting him get out of doing the required task. if instead the escalation is ignored, or he is instead quickly removed to a quiet work area with the required work sheet, then he gets the message - this work WILL be done. So another question to ask - get SpEd to make notes of when in the school day he has problems. Find out if it's before a break, or just after a break. Is it always the same topic? Or not? WHich topics was he working on before? Which topic are they changing to? He also needs someone to sit with him and de-brief. It should be either you, Shari, at the end of the day, or a therapist. I don't trust these school staff (even the nice ones) to effectively debrief him without also programming him to give the asnwers tey expect. He has to be quesitoned VERY carewfully, again asking for pure recount. "What happend first? Then what? Describe it. How were you feeling at this point? Go on, tell me what happened next." No responses from you whatsoever. Make sure your quesitons don't prompt. Don't say, "How did you feel, I bet you were angry then," because of course he will agree with you, this then changes his memory of events. Several possible triggers - 1) he's sleepy. 2) He's bored, and subsequently sleepy. 3) He was enjoying what he was doing before. 4) He really dislikes/finds too hard, what they want him to change to. 5) Someone is upsetting him, either an adult such as the aide or pretty boy, or another kid has previously (perhaps at the previous break, or perhaps subtly in the classroom) upset him, and he's taking longer to calm down about it. This is made worse when teachers don't see these things or refuse to listen when he tells them. We had big problems with this one. 6) Once he has been upset, his fuse will be much shorter and it will take far less for him to explode again. Now, YOU know all this. The SpEd knows it intellectually but is either not taking it on board, or isn't being allowed to because one particular aide is ignoring all the advice and information. You shouldn't have to think for them. It's not fair. I really do think that this principal, and probably at least one aide, is just praying for the day when you give up and take him out of the school; or alternatively, they have enough cause to make him go away in some other way. Not right, not fair. Marg [/QUOTE]
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