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For Cedar or anyone: My dad did it again...
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 651221" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>"She is often mistreated."</p><p></p><p>MWM, I could be a thousand flavors of wrong here, but this is what I see: Your sister is consumed by jealousy. She is like the spoiled little girl driven insane through usurpation of her role as golden child in the movie, "Whatever Happened To Baby Jane."</p><p></p><p>In the movie, the younger sister (portrayed by Bette Davis) who was a spoiled brat of a child movie star literally goes insane over the talent and adulation given the older sister who, during their childhoods, was seen as nothing, was discounted, victimized and ignored in favor of the movie star child.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]kGUbAX7Tosg[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>How does your D H think about your sister? My D H was so disgusted with my sister for years and years. I didn't care. I believed he was wrong. As I healed, my D H was my witness to the wrongness, the out of balanceness, of my relationship to my sister. My D H swore my sister was jealous.</p><p></p><p>I flat out did not believe it.</p><p></p><p>My D H was correct.</p><p></p><p>Though there is no thing, no specific wonderful thing (and for sure, with what has happened to our children, there is nothing to be jealous of there) for my sister to be jealous of. There may be nothing for your sister to choose to be jealous of and hateful about either, MWM. <em>I think we are not discussing normal people, when we talk about the members of our families of origin. </em>My sister <em>chooses</em> to see me through a film of jealousy so she can hate. </p><p></p><p>I just happen to be the person in the way.</p><p></p><p>There is nothing personal about what they do, MWM.</p><p></p><p>Do not believe anything you learned there.</p><p></p><p>I began it by looking for the hurt places. I found anger, and I found that I had been stepping back, had been making excuses for, had been allowing the power over games, for all of my life. I saw too the times I was pursued and broken intentionally.</p><p></p><p>I saw victimization.</p><p></p><p>It was nothing personal to me.</p><p></p><p>I was just in the way.</p><p></p><p>This sister is on her third husband. He was chosen carefully.</p><p></p><p>That is all I will say about that.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Toxic people tend to interact with other people who are toxic. If her friends are toxic, your sister may be much more ill, and very much more unhappy, than you suspect, MWM. Like me, you may not be allowing yourself to see it because your role was caretaker.</p><p></p><p>If her role were to be given a name, it would be "Tormentor".</p><p></p><p>Calling the police on a sister would leave the sister feeling like there was something wrong with her, of course...but MWM <em>no sane person calls the police in the way you have described your sister doing repeatedly. </em></p><p> </p><p>Are you sure you are the only one she is mistreating? </p><p></p><p>Could it be that you believe (like I did) that whatever my mom or my sister did, that was "just mom" or "just sister"? </p><p></p><p>I too believed my sister and mom were bright, popular people. Whatever reality demonstrated instead, I continued staunchly believing each of them was bright and popular in her circle. But what I learned going through this is that what each of them told me about their lives and their friendships was incorrect. </p><p></p><p>Or maybe, they literally don't know.</p><p></p><p>After my father died and I was more a party to my mother's life, my mom befriended or was befriended by, a very nice lady her own age. The lady had been a psychotherapist. A helping person, in other words. Watching the friendship deepen, hearing my mom talk about this lady behind her back while she used her to travel more comfortably, hearing her talk about the things she had told this or that mutual friend about the woman to isolate her from the group they both participated in was chilling. Watching my mother and my sister do the eye roll thing about this woman, understanding that they were being mean together about the "friend"...it was wrong, what my mother was doing. </p><p></p><p>I could see the wrongness regarding this innocent friend but I would not let myself see it where I was concerned.</p><p></p><p>To the friend's face, my mother was wonderful and supportive. I am sure the woman did not know my mother was working to ostracize her behind her back.</p><p></p><p>And here is the thing: There was no reason for my mom to do that. The woman was just a woman like anyone. Kinder than most, a little more naive than most, because as I said, she had been a psychotherapist. Her husband had been a minister.</p><p></p><p>I'm telling the story MWM because to watch this happen taught me important things about my mother and my sister. </p><p></p><p>What they do is nothing personal.</p><p></p><p>There was no benefit to my mother to treat her friend so badly behind her back. There was absolutely no benefit to my sister to treat the friend with contempt, to eye roll and ridicule her among themselves.</p><p></p><p>And yet, they did those things to an elderly, recently widowed, woman.</p><p></p><p>I wonder whether there is evidence in your sister's interactions too, of her illness. </p><p></p><p>And in your mother's.</p><p></p><p>The toxicity is not bigger than you. You are and have always been, the strong one. And MWM? I think you were made to believe things about yourself that were never true.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 651221, member: 17461"] "She is often mistreated." MWM, I could be a thousand flavors of wrong here, but this is what I see: Your sister is consumed by jealousy. She is like the spoiled little girl driven insane through usurpation of her role as golden child in the movie, "Whatever Happened To Baby Jane." In the movie, the younger sister (portrayed by Bette Davis) who was a spoiled brat of a child movie star literally goes insane over the talent and adulation given the older sister who, during their childhoods, was seen as nothing, was discounted, victimized and ignored in favor of the movie star child. [MEDIA=youtube]kGUbAX7Tosg[/MEDIA] *** How does your D H think about your sister? My D H was so disgusted with my sister for years and years. I didn't care. I believed he was wrong. As I healed, my D H was my witness to the wrongness, the out of balanceness, of my relationship to my sister. My D H swore my sister was jealous. I flat out did not believe it. My D H was correct. Though there is no thing, no specific wonderful thing (and for sure, with what has happened to our children, there is nothing to be jealous of there) for my sister to be jealous of. There may be nothing for your sister to choose to be jealous of and hateful about either, MWM. [I]I think we are not discussing normal people, when we talk about the members of our families of origin. [/I]My sister [I]chooses[/I] to see me through a film of jealousy so she can hate. I just happen to be the person in the way. There is nothing personal about what they do, MWM. Do not believe anything you learned there. I began it by looking for the hurt places. I found anger, and I found that I had been stepping back, had been making excuses for, had been allowing the power over games, for all of my life. I saw too the times I was pursued and broken intentionally. I saw victimization. It was nothing personal to me. I was just in the way. This sister is on her third husband. He was chosen carefully. That is all I will say about that. *** Toxic people tend to interact with other people who are toxic. If her friends are toxic, your sister may be much more ill, and very much more unhappy, than you suspect, MWM. Like me, you may not be allowing yourself to see it because your role was caretaker. If her role were to be given a name, it would be "Tormentor". Calling the police on a sister would leave the sister feeling like there was something wrong with her, of course...but MWM [I]no sane person calls the police in the way you have described your sister doing repeatedly. [/I] Are you sure you are the only one she is mistreating? Could it be that you believe (like I did) that whatever my mom or my sister did, that was "just mom" or "just sister"? I too believed my sister and mom were bright, popular people. Whatever reality demonstrated instead, I continued staunchly believing each of them was bright and popular in her circle. But what I learned going through this is that what each of them told me about their lives and their friendships was incorrect. Or maybe, they literally don't know. After my father died and I was more a party to my mother's life, my mom befriended or was befriended by, a very nice lady her own age. The lady had been a psychotherapist. A helping person, in other words. Watching the friendship deepen, hearing my mom talk about this lady behind her back while she used her to travel more comfortably, hearing her talk about the things she had told this or that mutual friend about the woman to isolate her from the group they both participated in was chilling. Watching my mother and my sister do the eye roll thing about this woman, understanding that they were being mean together about the "friend"...it was wrong, what my mother was doing. I could see the wrongness regarding this innocent friend but I would not let myself see it where I was concerned. To the friend's face, my mother was wonderful and supportive. I am sure the woman did not know my mother was working to ostracize her behind her back. And here is the thing: There was no reason for my mom to do that. The woman was just a woman like anyone. Kinder than most, a little more naive than most, because as I said, she had been a psychotherapist. Her husband had been a minister. I'm telling the story MWM because to watch this happen taught me important things about my mother and my sister. What they do is nothing personal. There was no benefit to my mother to treat her friend so badly behind her back. There was absolutely no benefit to my sister to treat the friend with contempt, to eye roll and ridicule her among themselves. And yet, they did those things to an elderly, recently widowed, woman. I wonder whether there is evidence in your sister's interactions too, of her illness. And in your mother's. The toxicity is not bigger than you. You are and have always been, the strong one. And MWM? I think you were made to believe things about yourself that were never true. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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