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<blockquote data-quote="rlsnights" data-source="post: 413106" data-attributes="member: 7948"><p>I too am feeling not real kindly toward sons having one in juvie for the first time and the other homeless again because he's been evicted again. But I really don't think that makes my advice too harsh. And you titled your post "help to stay strong". So here's my 2 cents.</p><p></p><p>I have serious bipolar issues. I have anxiety. I have other issues too. But - I do not steal from anyone. I do not build up debts to drug dealers. I have worked when able. All of these things have been true my whole life - no matter what although when I was in full mania maybe I would have stolen due to the psychosis. Clearly he is not manic.</p><p></p><p>He is addicted. He needs help with that. You have not helped him with that, on the contrary you and husband have made it easy for him to worsen his addiction instead of helping him work out a strategy for recovering from it.</p><p></p><p>You have made some mistakes. That's OK. We all make mistakes. Your responsibility is to stop making mistakes now that you know about them and do your best to figure out how to love him without enabling him. So you might want to look for a Nar-anon or other co-dependency group in your area and start attending regularly along with getting a sponsor. Your husband too.</p><p></p><p>If he's willing to enter treatment, you might consider loaning him the money for that. But I would draw up loan papers and I would have real consequences for failure to pay. And I would require that I approve any treatment program I am paying for and that it include regular drug testing and a clean-sober approach (not a harm reduction approach) at this point. He may also need treatment for other addictions you don't know about and I would want a thorough assessment of that at some point in the treatment program.</p><p></p><p>I think you have not done your son any favors letting him think that stealing from the people who love him the most in the world to pay for his addiction is OK and comes with zero consequences. </p><p></p><p>What will he think is OK in future intimate relationships? Who will he decide it is OK to betray in the future? How big does the theft have to be to qualify as too big? How old is "old enough" for him to be kicked out or charged with the theft? 25? 30? 45?</p><p></p><p>These are the kinds of questions I ask myself when my guilt-gathering tendency has kicked in and I am thinking that I should excuse difficult child 2 for becoming violent or stealing from us or when I am tempted to try and rescue difficult child 1 from the life he has chosen. And let me tell you, if ever there was a "kid" who could give you justification for rescuing him it is difficult child 1 who is 3 feet tall, can break his arm just by turning it the wrong way, has never walked and needs help with almost every ADL you can think of, has cognitive limitations, has significant mental illness - in other words is a walking advertisement for a helpless person. One of difficult child 1's redeeming features is his regular rejection of our help. We still step in at times to support the caregiving network he is embedded in. But that is because it is the ethically right thing to do as human beings, not because we feel guilty and responsible. This is true of his entire caregiving team and the professionals in that team are becoming desperate to help him because he has burned pretty much every bridge there is to burn when it comes to housing.</p><p></p><p>So here is my advice today in bullet format - an echo of the replies you have already gotten from others. </p><p></p><p>Out of house today. No, you do not owe him any warning. Did he warn you that he was planning to steal from you? Out. Of. House. Today.</p><p>Change all locks today.</p><p>Report ATM cards and ALL credit cards as stolen today.</p><p>Anything he doesn't bag up himself will go in storage or donation or trash and he can make arrangements with you to pick it up at a future date.</p><p>His presence on property without advance warning or while you are gone is trespass and will be treated as such.</p><p>Tell him you will press charges for any further stealing of any kind or any stealing he has done that you do not know about right now that he does not tell you about today. Check all recent credit card charges before you have this chat with him in case he has charged something without your knowledge and doesn't fess up.</p><p></p><p>The one alternative you can offer - immediate hospitalization or placement in a treatment program as outlined above. That means within the week. And he may stay in the apartment but you are changing all the locks (today) and he may come and go only when you are home. And you will lock up all your credit cards, purse, wallet ,etc. until he has actually left the premises because you do not want to tempt him anymore right? If he was an alcoholic trying not to drink you wouldn't buy vodka and leave it out would you? You would probably think that you were sabotaging his efforts to stay sober. Same thing with the ATM and credit cards.</p><p></p><p>Many hugs. This is likely to be the hardest thing you have done in your or his life. But it is your job to push him from the nest. You have to separate from him just like he has to separate from you. And as someone else has said - bad things can happen no matter what.</p><p></p><p>If your son is really afraid of these people he owes money to he can go talk to the police about it. I expect they might appreciate that information. Maybe they will have some thoughts about how dangerous the situation really is and what your son can do about it.</p><p></p><p>Hugs for these hard times. You are not alone and you have already shown that you are strong - you came here when you could have turned a blind eye - again.</p><p></p><p>Patricia</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rlsnights, post: 413106, member: 7948"] I too am feeling not real kindly toward sons having one in juvie for the first time and the other homeless again because he's been evicted again. But I really don't think that makes my advice too harsh. And you titled your post "help to stay strong". So here's my 2 cents. I have serious bipolar issues. I have anxiety. I have other issues too. But - I do not steal from anyone. I do not build up debts to drug dealers. I have worked when able. All of these things have been true my whole life - no matter what although when I was in full mania maybe I would have stolen due to the psychosis. Clearly he is not manic. He is addicted. He needs help with that. You have not helped him with that, on the contrary you and husband have made it easy for him to worsen his addiction instead of helping him work out a strategy for recovering from it. You have made some mistakes. That's OK. We all make mistakes. Your responsibility is to stop making mistakes now that you know about them and do your best to figure out how to love him without enabling him. So you might want to look for a Nar-anon or other co-dependency group in your area and start attending regularly along with getting a sponsor. Your husband too. If he's willing to enter treatment, you might consider loaning him the money for that. But I would draw up loan papers and I would have real consequences for failure to pay. And I would require that I approve any treatment program I am paying for and that it include regular drug testing and a clean-sober approach (not a harm reduction approach) at this point. He may also need treatment for other addictions you don't know about and I would want a thorough assessment of that at some point in the treatment program. I think you have not done your son any favors letting him think that stealing from the people who love him the most in the world to pay for his addiction is OK and comes with zero consequences. What will he think is OK in future intimate relationships? Who will he decide it is OK to betray in the future? How big does the theft have to be to qualify as too big? How old is "old enough" for him to be kicked out or charged with the theft? 25? 30? 45? These are the kinds of questions I ask myself when my guilt-gathering tendency has kicked in and I am thinking that I should excuse difficult child 2 for becoming violent or stealing from us or when I am tempted to try and rescue difficult child 1 from the life he has chosen. And let me tell you, if ever there was a "kid" who could give you justification for rescuing him it is difficult child 1 who is 3 feet tall, can break his arm just by turning it the wrong way, has never walked and needs help with almost every ADL you can think of, has cognitive limitations, has significant mental illness - in other words is a walking advertisement for a helpless person. One of difficult child 1's redeeming features is his regular rejection of our help. We still step in at times to support the caregiving network he is embedded in. But that is because it is the ethically right thing to do as human beings, not because we feel guilty and responsible. This is true of his entire caregiving team and the professionals in that team are becoming desperate to help him because he has burned pretty much every bridge there is to burn when it comes to housing. So here is my advice today in bullet format - an echo of the replies you have already gotten from others. Out of house today. No, you do not owe him any warning. Did he warn you that he was planning to steal from you? Out. Of. House. Today. Change all locks today. Report ATM cards and ALL credit cards as stolen today. Anything he doesn't bag up himself will go in storage or donation or trash and he can make arrangements with you to pick it up at a future date. His presence on property without advance warning or while you are gone is trespass and will be treated as such. Tell him you will press charges for any further stealing of any kind or any stealing he has done that you do not know about right now that he does not tell you about today. Check all recent credit card charges before you have this chat with him in case he has charged something without your knowledge and doesn't fess up. The one alternative you can offer - immediate hospitalization or placement in a treatment program as outlined above. That means within the week. And he may stay in the apartment but you are changing all the locks (today) and he may come and go only when you are home. And you will lock up all your credit cards, purse, wallet ,etc. until he has actually left the premises because you do not want to tempt him anymore right? If he was an alcoholic trying not to drink you wouldn't buy vodka and leave it out would you? You would probably think that you were sabotaging his efforts to stay sober. Same thing with the ATM and credit cards. Many hugs. This is likely to be the hardest thing you have done in your or his life. But it is your job to push him from the nest. You have to separate from him just like he has to separate from you. And as someone else has said - bad things can happen no matter what. If your son is really afraid of these people he owes money to he can go talk to the police about it. I expect they might appreciate that information. Maybe they will have some thoughts about how dangerous the situation really is and what your son can do about it. Hugs for these hard times. You are not alone and you have already shown that you are strong - you came here when you could have turned a blind eye - again. Patricia [/QUOTE]
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