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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 624048" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Oh, brother. Talk about dominating your thread, Child. But I went back to Maslow. The highest category? The Self Actualization part? There is no more stringent morality than the morality of the streets, of the jails and gangs and prisons. Creativity, spontaneity, problem solving, lack of prejudice, acceptance of facts. When I think about the things either of my kids tell me about their lives, about who they know and what that means...this is the level they are. Prejudice? Non-existent. Judgment? WHO ARE THEY GOING TO JUDGE?!? They are continually judged, chased away from the tourist areas, begging for things to eat or to wear.</p><p></p><p>Like those monks whose practice it is to beg, each day, for their bowl of food. </p><p></p><p>The next level down: Esteem. The intimacy of life on the streets ~ the lack of plumbing, showers, everything, creates an intimacy and an interdependence (at least, according to difficult child daughter) unlike anything I have experienced. Loyalty. Checking in with one another in the morning. Who was beat, picked up by the police, dead? Who needs to be checked on. They mirror a different value system than ours...but esteem, come of bare bones honesty, of being in the same pitiless place in life, breeds a closeness and a kind of integrity we know nothing about.</p><p></p><p>Safety. Initially, I believed this one to be true. Surely, they are not safe.</p><p>But during her time on the streets? My daughter was not beat to the degree she was, once she was "safely" off the streets. Street dangers are clear and well-known. (According to difficult child daughter.)</p><p></p><p>What can happen behind closed doors....</p><p></p><p>Truly, they don't have the basics. And yet, somehow, they survive. Even in the middle of blizzards, in the middle of below zero nights...they survive. Once they have done that, they are free in a way we know nothing about. Free of the fear. The fear of disapproval, of not having the right car or living in the right neighborhood or getting the promotion.</p><p></p><p>They have the option, most times, of choosing a shelter but they don't.</p><p></p><p>Is it that we see through our eyes a different reality than the one they see through their I've-been-there-and-the-other-place eyes?</p><p></p><p>Ultimately, society would not function, if everyone did what the homeless are doing. Someone has to create things, ship food in, provide medical care.</p><p></p><p>So, is it a question of abrogating responsibility? Those who inherit wealth...isn't that what they do, too? Nothing productive, because they don't have to? Never touch the principle, lest you fall off the wagon the others are pulling. (That idea comes from <u>Looking Backward</u>, by Edward Ballamy.) So, the homeless are doing the same thing in a way, only there are no protections for them, like there are for the titled or the wealthy.</p><p></p><p>Okay, so that is beyond the scope of this thread. But on the Hierarchy of personhood and development...I agree that those characteristics are real. I think we learn, grow, wherever we are. It may be that the kids devolve when we parent too long. That drug or alcohol addled brains don't develop...except that so many geniuses in every field have been drug and alcohol addled. </p><p></p><p>Just something I was thinking about, especially in relation to the spiritual aspects of your thread, Child.</p><p></p><p>I am loving this discussion.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps we have nothing to forgive. And nothing to forgive ourselves for.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 624048, member: 17461"] Oh, brother. Talk about dominating your thread, Child. But I went back to Maslow. The highest category? The Self Actualization part? There is no more stringent morality than the morality of the streets, of the jails and gangs and prisons. Creativity, spontaneity, problem solving, lack of prejudice, acceptance of facts. When I think about the things either of my kids tell me about their lives, about who they know and what that means...this is the level they are. Prejudice? Non-existent. Judgment? WHO ARE THEY GOING TO JUDGE?!? They are continually judged, chased away from the tourist areas, begging for things to eat or to wear. Like those monks whose practice it is to beg, each day, for their bowl of food. The next level down: Esteem. The intimacy of life on the streets ~ the lack of plumbing, showers, everything, creates an intimacy and an interdependence (at least, according to difficult child daughter) unlike anything I have experienced. Loyalty. Checking in with one another in the morning. Who was beat, picked up by the police, dead? Who needs to be checked on. They mirror a different value system than ours...but esteem, come of bare bones honesty, of being in the same pitiless place in life, breeds a closeness and a kind of integrity we know nothing about. Safety. Initially, I believed this one to be true. Surely, they are not safe. But during her time on the streets? My daughter was not beat to the degree she was, once she was "safely" off the streets. Street dangers are clear and well-known. (According to difficult child daughter.) What can happen behind closed doors.... Truly, they don't have the basics. And yet, somehow, they survive. Even in the middle of blizzards, in the middle of below zero nights...they survive. Once they have done that, they are free in a way we know nothing about. Free of the fear. The fear of disapproval, of not having the right car or living in the right neighborhood or getting the promotion. They have the option, most times, of choosing a shelter but they don't. Is it that we see through our eyes a different reality than the one they see through their I've-been-there-and-the-other-place eyes? Ultimately, society would not function, if everyone did what the homeless are doing. Someone has to create things, ship food in, provide medical care. So, is it a question of abrogating responsibility? Those who inherit wealth...isn't that what they do, too? Nothing productive, because they don't have to? Never touch the principle, lest you fall off the wagon the others are pulling. (That idea comes from [U]Looking Backward[/U], by Edward Ballamy.) So, the homeless are doing the same thing in a way, only there are no protections for them, like there are for the titled or the wealthy. Okay, so that is beyond the scope of this thread. But on the Hierarchy of personhood and development...I agree that those characteristics are real. I think we learn, grow, wherever we are. It may be that the kids devolve when we parent too long. That drug or alcohol addled brains don't develop...except that so many geniuses in every field have been drug and alcohol addled. Just something I was thinking about, especially in relation to the spiritual aspects of your thread, Child. I am loving this discussion. Perhaps we have nothing to forgive. And nothing to forgive ourselves for. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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