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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 258606" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Bran, I do know that this hurts because I saw my sister go through this with her son. I watched the train wreck happening in slow motion, I tried to help (so did other sisters) and we did all we could. When he was in jail, husband & I got the chaplain on side to see what he could to to help - this chaplain was formerly a drug addict and biker who found God through our church (before we were living in the area), came back for a visit and that washow we linked up. But even he couldn't get through to my nephew.</p><p></p><p>My nephew had a good home, a mother who did her utmost to help him and to get help for him, who went to court for him and did her best to get him into rehab. He left home at 14 to live in the streets and prostituted himself as well as doing break & enters to afford the drugs he was hooked on. After he came out of jail and was living with the mother of his first child, my sister tried to help them by giving them a washing machine, a fridge, various other things which I know he sold to buy more drugs. If she hadn't given them stuff (which she did so they could wash the clothes for her grandson) then he wouldn't havve been able to buy the drugs so easily.</p><p></p><p>My sister took many years to learn to detach; she finally had no choice because he cut himself off from her and told her that because she was an interfering old witch she would never see her grandchildren again (this was because she refused to give him more money; he had almost bankrupted her already). Meanwhile her other kids suffered as the money drained from the family.</p><p></p><p>My nephew is at last clean and back in his mother's life, but at arm's length. She has no money left to help any of her kids out, which is a good thing because old habits die hard.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter - this is no surprise. I'm sorry. So very sorry, but in your heart you must have known she was "on the game" even casually. She's been sending you messages, trying to use this to make you angry, to cause drama and to push your buttons. Even before she hit you and ran off, she was sending you messages loud and clear that she had been selling herself. I guess we all wanted to think on the positive side and assume she was just trying to make you angry, to cause a scene and give herself an excuse to walk out.</p><p></p><p>You DID know she was no longer a virgin. These days it's not the big deal it was in our day, but it's still a shock to dicover your daughter has already had more sexual partners than both her parents combined. </p><p></p><p>You can't control her. You haven't been able to for a very long time, so why dream about it now? And even if you could - what would it achieve? Let's say that you could get in your car, drive to where she is soliciting, grab her and drag her into the car. You drive off somewhere, a motel somewhere where you have a deprogrammer waiting. Or you take her to a rehab centre or a psychiatric ward and have her admitted against her will.</p><p>How long would she stay there? And even if, by some miracle, she complied, "saw te light", got clean and walked out the door telling everyone and herself that she would go straight - she wouldn't have done this herself, so iti wouldn't last. Besides, you know it wouldn't happen like that, she would be kicking and screaming all the way and would put every fibre of her being into escaping. It wouldactually be fun, exciting and part of the drama, to outwit everybody yet again. it would only serve to increase her contempt for everyone and in the end make her even more incorrigible.</p><p></p><p>So you must detach.</p><p></p><p>What is more - you need to get V to sit down with you and also learn this lesson - DETACH. V is 'channelling' you, she is trying to help her friend but she is also, like you, only making things worse. For B, for you, for herself.</p><p></p><p>You ALL must do the most difficult thing possible - walk away. If you see her shivering on a street corner, wearing dlimsy scanty clothing in a freezing gale, do not even stop and buy her a coffee. Even that, is enabling her. The more she is enabled, the longer it will be before she reaches rock bottom (HER rock bottom, I think it was Shari who said that). </p><p></p><p>Every time you try to help, or try to find out where she is, or try to do anything at all with her, you are digging her hole deeper. The hole is at ground level, she may be doing some digging but every time you intervene, so are you. And as the hole gets deeper, so the time this process will take, is increased.</p><p></p><p>Example - my nephew was up before the judge for break and enter. My sister begged the judge to go easy on him, asking the judge to send him to rehab instead of prison. The judge listened, took into account that this lad was clearly form a home with a loving mother and good background, had never wanted for anything and said to him, "You are a lucky young man, you don't know a good thing when it's kicking you in the rear. Because of your mother, I am not gonig to send you to jail; not yet. Instead, you will go to rehab. But if you leave before your time is up, then it's jail, for six months."</p><p></p><p>So they sent him to rehab. A week later he was back on the streets, bragging that the court system was nothing to be afraid of. In the end he accumulated even more crimes (drug offences - possession, selling, trafficking; break & enter; prostitution; vagrancy; consorting) and spent years behind bars, in a much 'harder' prison.</p><p></p><p>If my sister had stayed out of it he would have gone to prison for 6 months and this could have been enough to make him wake up to himself. But she intervened because she was desperate - her baby was doing unthinkable things on the streets, allowing strange men do do horrible things to him and then buying contaminated drugs and using dirty needles; of course she wanted him away from it all. But in the end it kept him on the streets even longer, he was unreachable for even more years and has now fried his brain.</p><p></p><p>My nephew is NOT homosexual, but had no qualms about selling his body to men. This was at a really nasty time as far as transmission of HIV was concerned. Amazingly, he is not only still alive but seems to have escaped 'catching' anything really nasty and incurable.</p><p>These days hookers (male and female) can use protection as par for the course, plus treatment is much easier and effective.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter - I'd say it's almost a certainty that she is on drugs, HARD drugs because they not only cost the big money but they also are the ones that have you craving it so badly that you WILL literally do anything to get your next fix. People don't prostitute themselves for marijuana. Given a choice between going home with you and working towards a steady, safe life with a job that earns $500 a week or staying on the streets where it's exciting, where she can earn $500 a day or more (in order to support a $500 a day habit) and where she feels desired and at the edge - I'm sorry, Bran, but you can't compete with the drugs.</p><p></p><p>And it's not just the drugs themselves - even if you could guarantee her supply, there would still be something she is craving that goes beyond the drugs.</p><p></p><p>The other thing to consider - this is a nasty lifestyle, often part of a vicious circle where drug clients who begin as casual users are lured in (often by free samples or cheap supply, or "I'll give you a free taste if you drop off this parcel for me") and then once they're hooked, they are kept that way and supported into prostitution in order to maintain the status quo. A girl wanting to make fast money and go into prostitution, even just casually, is often introduced to drugs as a way of making the prostitution easier to cope with ("use coke and you can stay awake all night, satisfy more clients and make more money"). Once hooked, she can't give up the prostitution without also giving up the drug supply. And it works the other way - a kid wanting access to drugs can find the price drops a bit, or it's more affordable, when they sell themselves. Often thodse controlling the drugs are also controlling the prostitution. A pimp generally keeps their 'staff' hooked and compliant through a mix of fear, control and being the drug supplier. The staff have to then work off their debt in so many ways.</p><p></p><p>It's nasty. You need to distance yourself because you just can't compete. When you try to compete, you actually make it easier for the pimps and drug pushers to get their claws in deeper.</p><p></p><p>I know your daughter has BiPolar (BP), but not everyone with BiPolar (BP) does what she is doing. And not all easy child kids avoid doing what she is doing. B's story sounds like a mirror image of my nephew's. I don't think the BiPolar (BP) is much, if any, factor here.</p><p></p><p>Why is she doing this? Well, I don't think it really makes any difference. It's got little if anything to do with socioeconomic rank of the family. Private school kids living a pampered life are just as likely to do this as kids on the wrong side of the tracks. </p><p></p><p>Don't blame yourself for her choices. But you MUST detach. You also MUST get help for yourself, if you want to save your son from going down the same path. The only thing worse than a kid selling herself to buy hard drugs, is TWO kids selling themselves to buy hard drugs.</p><p></p><p>Go join NarcAnon and take V with you. Get your son to the teen version of it. He has been damaged by this already as well.</p><p></p><p>Do this as a priority - they are the group which did the most to help my sister change her mental approach, which was the biggest thing that stopped her son's further downward spiral.</p><p></p><p>If you want to help your daughter - stop reacting to what she says/does, stop ringing her whenever you hear horrible rumours (even when they're likely to be true - DON'T respond), and go to NarcAnon ASAP.</p><p></p><p>I'm sorry if I come across as hard, cruel, unfeeling - I do feel for you, this cuts deep. But I have seen what happens next and I want to save you from the worst of what is to come. And it IS much worse. Much, much worse. You don't want to play any part in where she goes next, you need to be able to say that she had no help digging herself in a deeper hole.</p><p></p><p>Get help. Go to NarcAnon. Get your sister there and V. Because V is trying also to be a rescuer, so is your sister. And you MUST stop this, all of you, or not only will you all get hurt, you will make it much nastier for B. Show this to them if you need to, to get them to join with you and go with you.</p><p></p><p>V sounds like a girl who wants to be a good friend but who is totally lost by this. If you can't save B, then see what you can do to help V from the damage this has done to her. And learn form NarcAnon what you need to do, for your son.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 258606, member: 1991"] Bran, I do know that this hurts because I saw my sister go through this with her son. I watched the train wreck happening in slow motion, I tried to help (so did other sisters) and we did all we could. When he was in jail, husband & I got the chaplain on side to see what he could to to help - this chaplain was formerly a drug addict and biker who found God through our church (before we were living in the area), came back for a visit and that washow we linked up. But even he couldn't get through to my nephew. My nephew had a good home, a mother who did her utmost to help him and to get help for him, who went to court for him and did her best to get him into rehab. He left home at 14 to live in the streets and prostituted himself as well as doing break & enters to afford the drugs he was hooked on. After he came out of jail and was living with the mother of his first child, my sister tried to help them by giving them a washing machine, a fridge, various other things which I know he sold to buy more drugs. If she hadn't given them stuff (which she did so they could wash the clothes for her grandson) then he wouldn't havve been able to buy the drugs so easily. My sister took many years to learn to detach; she finally had no choice because he cut himself off from her and told her that because she was an interfering old witch she would never see her grandchildren again (this was because she refused to give him more money; he had almost bankrupted her already). Meanwhile her other kids suffered as the money drained from the family. My nephew is at last clean and back in his mother's life, but at arm's length. She has no money left to help any of her kids out, which is a good thing because old habits die hard. Your daughter - this is no surprise. I'm sorry. So very sorry, but in your heart you must have known she was "on the game" even casually. She's been sending you messages, trying to use this to make you angry, to cause drama and to push your buttons. Even before she hit you and ran off, she was sending you messages loud and clear that she had been selling herself. I guess we all wanted to think on the positive side and assume she was just trying to make you angry, to cause a scene and give herself an excuse to walk out. You DID know she was no longer a virgin. These days it's not the big deal it was in our day, but it's still a shock to dicover your daughter has already had more sexual partners than both her parents combined. You can't control her. You haven't been able to for a very long time, so why dream about it now? And even if you could - what would it achieve? Let's say that you could get in your car, drive to where she is soliciting, grab her and drag her into the car. You drive off somewhere, a motel somewhere where you have a deprogrammer waiting. Or you take her to a rehab centre or a psychiatric ward and have her admitted against her will. How long would she stay there? And even if, by some miracle, she complied, "saw te light", got clean and walked out the door telling everyone and herself that she would go straight - she wouldn't have done this herself, so iti wouldn't last. Besides, you know it wouldn't happen like that, she would be kicking and screaming all the way and would put every fibre of her being into escaping. It wouldactually be fun, exciting and part of the drama, to outwit everybody yet again. it would only serve to increase her contempt for everyone and in the end make her even more incorrigible. So you must detach. What is more - you need to get V to sit down with you and also learn this lesson - DETACH. V is 'channelling' you, she is trying to help her friend but she is also, like you, only making things worse. For B, for you, for herself. You ALL must do the most difficult thing possible - walk away. If you see her shivering on a street corner, wearing dlimsy scanty clothing in a freezing gale, do not even stop and buy her a coffee. Even that, is enabling her. The more she is enabled, the longer it will be before she reaches rock bottom (HER rock bottom, I think it was Shari who said that). Every time you try to help, or try to find out where she is, or try to do anything at all with her, you are digging her hole deeper. The hole is at ground level, she may be doing some digging but every time you intervene, so are you. And as the hole gets deeper, so the time this process will take, is increased. Example - my nephew was up before the judge for break and enter. My sister begged the judge to go easy on him, asking the judge to send him to rehab instead of prison. The judge listened, took into account that this lad was clearly form a home with a loving mother and good background, had never wanted for anything and said to him, "You are a lucky young man, you don't know a good thing when it's kicking you in the rear. Because of your mother, I am not gonig to send you to jail; not yet. Instead, you will go to rehab. But if you leave before your time is up, then it's jail, for six months." So they sent him to rehab. A week later he was back on the streets, bragging that the court system was nothing to be afraid of. In the end he accumulated even more crimes (drug offences - possession, selling, trafficking; break & enter; prostitution; vagrancy; consorting) and spent years behind bars, in a much 'harder' prison. If my sister had stayed out of it he would have gone to prison for 6 months and this could have been enough to make him wake up to himself. But she intervened because she was desperate - her baby was doing unthinkable things on the streets, allowing strange men do do horrible things to him and then buying contaminated drugs and using dirty needles; of course she wanted him away from it all. But in the end it kept him on the streets even longer, he was unreachable for even more years and has now fried his brain. My nephew is NOT homosexual, but had no qualms about selling his body to men. This was at a really nasty time as far as transmission of HIV was concerned. Amazingly, he is not only still alive but seems to have escaped 'catching' anything really nasty and incurable. These days hookers (male and female) can use protection as par for the course, plus treatment is much easier and effective. Your daughter - I'd say it's almost a certainty that she is on drugs, HARD drugs because they not only cost the big money but they also are the ones that have you craving it so badly that you WILL literally do anything to get your next fix. People don't prostitute themselves for marijuana. Given a choice between going home with you and working towards a steady, safe life with a job that earns $500 a week or staying on the streets where it's exciting, where she can earn $500 a day or more (in order to support a $500 a day habit) and where she feels desired and at the edge - I'm sorry, Bran, but you can't compete with the drugs. And it's not just the drugs themselves - even if you could guarantee her supply, there would still be something she is craving that goes beyond the drugs. The other thing to consider - this is a nasty lifestyle, often part of a vicious circle where drug clients who begin as casual users are lured in (often by free samples or cheap supply, or "I'll give you a free taste if you drop off this parcel for me") and then once they're hooked, they are kept that way and supported into prostitution in order to maintain the status quo. A girl wanting to make fast money and go into prostitution, even just casually, is often introduced to drugs as a way of making the prostitution easier to cope with ("use coke and you can stay awake all night, satisfy more clients and make more money"). Once hooked, she can't give up the prostitution without also giving up the drug supply. And it works the other way - a kid wanting access to drugs can find the price drops a bit, or it's more affordable, when they sell themselves. Often thodse controlling the drugs are also controlling the prostitution. A pimp generally keeps their 'staff' hooked and compliant through a mix of fear, control and being the drug supplier. The staff have to then work off their debt in so many ways. It's nasty. You need to distance yourself because you just can't compete. When you try to compete, you actually make it easier for the pimps and drug pushers to get their claws in deeper. I know your daughter has BiPolar (BP), but not everyone with BiPolar (BP) does what she is doing. And not all easy child kids avoid doing what she is doing. B's story sounds like a mirror image of my nephew's. I don't think the BiPolar (BP) is much, if any, factor here. Why is she doing this? Well, I don't think it really makes any difference. It's got little if anything to do with socioeconomic rank of the family. Private school kids living a pampered life are just as likely to do this as kids on the wrong side of the tracks. Don't blame yourself for her choices. But you MUST detach. You also MUST get help for yourself, if you want to save your son from going down the same path. The only thing worse than a kid selling herself to buy hard drugs, is TWO kids selling themselves to buy hard drugs. Go join NarcAnon and take V with you. Get your son to the teen version of it. He has been damaged by this already as well. Do this as a priority - they are the group which did the most to help my sister change her mental approach, which was the biggest thing that stopped her son's further downward spiral. If you want to help your daughter - stop reacting to what she says/does, stop ringing her whenever you hear horrible rumours (even when they're likely to be true - DON'T respond), and go to NarcAnon ASAP. I'm sorry if I come across as hard, cruel, unfeeling - I do feel for you, this cuts deep. But I have seen what happens next and I want to save you from the worst of what is to come. And it IS much worse. Much, much worse. You don't want to play any part in where she goes next, you need to be able to say that she had no help digging herself in a deeper hole. Get help. Go to NarcAnon. Get your sister there and V. Because V is trying also to be a rescuer, so is your sister. And you MUST stop this, all of you, or not only will you all get hurt, you will make it much nastier for B. Show this to them if you need to, to get them to join with you and go with you. V sounds like a girl who wants to be a good friend but who is totally lost by this. If you can't save B, then see what you can do to help V from the damage this has done to her. And learn form NarcAnon what you need to do, for your son. Marg [/QUOTE]
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