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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 209976" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I need to make clear - I began to draft this reply then got a conference call from difficult child 3's school; I finished my reply and sent, then found things had progressed. So please read my response in this light (if it makes any difference).</p><p></p><p>To difficult child's credit, he DID ring this guy and tell him to stay away from him. Also, the guy was ringing every 3 minutes and still difficult child only snuck out for 45 minutes - doesn't sound to me like difficult child really wants to hang around this kid, sounds the other way around to me or difficult child would have stayed away longer. I wonder what hold this guy has on difficult child, or even if it's just a case of difficult child being manipulated or in some way bullied by this guy. difficult children tend to attract other difficult children as friends and where one difficult child is inappropriate, often so are his - comrades? friends? I don't think either of these terms fits here. I remember when I was in grade 6 and a girl I'd known back in grade 2 for a couple of months turned up at my school. The girl was a problem but attached herself to me to the extent that I then lost all other friends because this girl was so unpleasant but wouldn't leave me alone. She followed me into shops and stole, then tried to make me eat the stolen sweets; I threatened to turn her in and she beat me up. Her mother attacher herself to my mother and we got double visits with this girl and me being sent out to play, where this girl immediately got into the animal feed and scattered it everywhere; I got the blame from my father. The girl hurt our livestock, was a bully, was generally a behavioural problem and I was getting tarred with her brush. Because of her I got banned from playing in certain areas at school because SHE was banned and I was in her general company (not by choice). The only thing that eventually saved me - two things. First, the much younger kids that I preferred as friends all ganged together and told a teacher what was happening (which lifted the ban on me going into their playground, but didn't lift her ban); and at the end of grade 6 we change schools and this girl went to a more exclusive private school (I was told in an attempt to get her behaviour under control). We saw each other on the school bus but I was mostly able to avoid her. She still considered me her best friend - she just had no clue what a disaster she was to be around.</p><p></p><p>I wasn't the most popular kid, but neither was I totally friendless and therefore more vulnerable to accept just anybody as a friend. I suspect your difficult child is more vulnerable.</p><p></p><p>Back to your difficult child. He did the wrong thing by hanging around this guy in the first place but seems to have been trying to do something right.</p><p></p><p>I would be VERY curious as to what is going on that made him skip school. This guy (past troublemaker and bad influence) turns up and then starts really pushing himself onto difficult child; you get concerned and blow the whistle (rightly); difficult child finally gets the message after initially doing what this guy wants even in the face of your disapproval and breaking rules; difficult child then calls the guy to cut off contact and next thing, skips school.</p><p></p><p>So I have a few questions I'd be asking difficult child, and I'd be asking for information, not in any atmosphere of accusation. To save this kid you need to be in the loop and right now, you're out of the loop and working blind. </p><p></p><p>So, for difficult child - </p><p></p><p>1) What did this problem guy want from you when he first renewed contact? </p><p></p><p>2) What was so all-fired important that he had to ring you every three minutes even knowing I was increasingly on the warpath?</p><p></p><p>3) Why was is so urgently important for you to sneak out to see him after he was ringing so much, that you would risk the consequences of breaking house arrest? Please help me understand this.</p><p></p><p>4) Is there a connection here with your absence from school? Again, please help me understand. Your best defence lies in my understanding just what is going on. Some people are very difficult to handle - trust me, I know! And sometimes you need help from outside, you can't be expected to handle it all on your own.</p><p></p><p>I really do wonder what difficult child was avoiding at school. As parents we tend to think in terms of our difficult children avoiding learning; but there are many more things our kids are trying to avoid, many of them to do with other kids and how they are treating our kids. Your difficult child may have been trying to avoid a very unpleasant confrontation with other students, for example. Or trying to avoid being dragged into something unpleasant or illegal. And still, doesn't even want to be involved to the point of being accused of getting the other kid into even hotter water (sense of misguided loyalty plus "not wanting to dob").</p><p></p><p>Your difficult child is only 13, this is a very vulnerable age and boys at 13, especially difficult children, are very immature and not very socially capable, compared to girls. It's much more easy for others to manipulate them into doing the wrong thing.</p><p></p><p>I'm certainly not saying that difficult child is innocent of any wrongdoing - but he may be compounding things badly now, trying to cover up for something not at all serious by acting impulsively and simply not being strong enough to stand up to this other kid.</p><p></p><p>As for the various people you've called on for help - they sound as useful and organised as kindergarten kids trying to run the legal system. Hmmm... maybe less so. I would certainly complain, but to make it all more effective, document everything, minute all your phone calls and follow up with faxes outlining your concerns. It needn't be too onerous to do this - I work at my computer, I type as I talk/listen and this way I can even take down what someone says verbatim and quote it back at them if necessary. I date each phone call, after the call I get it organised, fix any obvious typos and make sure it's put away in the correct file (usually diary form, in order of date under a specific topic issue). For example, you could have a file specifically covering problems which have resulted since contact with this other kid, or it could go in a file of difficult child's breaking house arrest, or problems with PO not getting back to you when specially requested.</p><p></p><p>One very important thing - I know you're getting worn down by all this, but if you can, do try to fully complete a call. If you cannot, arrange a callback to do so. When you had to go to take the other call you needed to either make it clear that business had already been dealt with as fully as possible at that time, or ask the person to call you back if they felt they had more to offer. That way you've put the ball in their court to come up with the goods; they can't later on claim you didn't give them a fair hearing or take their advice fully. Even when you're convinced the person you're talking to is an incompetent idiot, you still need to make sure you've clearly given them enough rope to hang themselves; the last thing you want is a complete idiot looking like the wronged party in a dispute about your child. It wastes the time you've already had to put in with the idiot.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there. It mightn't be as bad as you think. Of course, I do think your detachment that you're trying to put in place is also good - it makes it easier for you to listen to difficult child without blowing your stack too readily. That is, if your difficult child can be persuaded to talk - because frankly, I think he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing so, if only he can understand this.</p><p></p><p>Good luck, it's not easy parenting a teen, let alone a difficult child one.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 209976, member: 1991"] I need to make clear - I began to draft this reply then got a conference call from difficult child 3's school; I finished my reply and sent, then found things had progressed. So please read my response in this light (if it makes any difference). To difficult child's credit, he DID ring this guy and tell him to stay away from him. Also, the guy was ringing every 3 minutes and still difficult child only snuck out for 45 minutes - doesn't sound to me like difficult child really wants to hang around this kid, sounds the other way around to me or difficult child would have stayed away longer. I wonder what hold this guy has on difficult child, or even if it's just a case of difficult child being manipulated or in some way bullied by this guy. difficult children tend to attract other difficult children as friends and where one difficult child is inappropriate, often so are his - comrades? friends? I don't think either of these terms fits here. I remember when I was in grade 6 and a girl I'd known back in grade 2 for a couple of months turned up at my school. The girl was a problem but attached herself to me to the extent that I then lost all other friends because this girl was so unpleasant but wouldn't leave me alone. She followed me into shops and stole, then tried to make me eat the stolen sweets; I threatened to turn her in and she beat me up. Her mother attacher herself to my mother and we got double visits with this girl and me being sent out to play, where this girl immediately got into the animal feed and scattered it everywhere; I got the blame from my father. The girl hurt our livestock, was a bully, was generally a behavioural problem and I was getting tarred with her brush. Because of her I got banned from playing in certain areas at school because SHE was banned and I was in her general company (not by choice). The only thing that eventually saved me - two things. First, the much younger kids that I preferred as friends all ganged together and told a teacher what was happening (which lifted the ban on me going into their playground, but didn't lift her ban); and at the end of grade 6 we change schools and this girl went to a more exclusive private school (I was told in an attempt to get her behaviour under control). We saw each other on the school bus but I was mostly able to avoid her. She still considered me her best friend - she just had no clue what a disaster she was to be around. I wasn't the most popular kid, but neither was I totally friendless and therefore more vulnerable to accept just anybody as a friend. I suspect your difficult child is more vulnerable. Back to your difficult child. He did the wrong thing by hanging around this guy in the first place but seems to have been trying to do something right. I would be VERY curious as to what is going on that made him skip school. This guy (past troublemaker and bad influence) turns up and then starts really pushing himself onto difficult child; you get concerned and blow the whistle (rightly); difficult child finally gets the message after initially doing what this guy wants even in the face of your disapproval and breaking rules; difficult child then calls the guy to cut off contact and next thing, skips school. So I have a few questions I'd be asking difficult child, and I'd be asking for information, not in any atmosphere of accusation. To save this kid you need to be in the loop and right now, you're out of the loop and working blind. So, for difficult child - 1) What did this problem guy want from you when he first renewed contact? 2) What was so all-fired important that he had to ring you every three minutes even knowing I was increasingly on the warpath? 3) Why was is so urgently important for you to sneak out to see him after he was ringing so much, that you would risk the consequences of breaking house arrest? Please help me understand this. 4) Is there a connection here with your absence from school? Again, please help me understand. Your best defence lies in my understanding just what is going on. Some people are very difficult to handle - trust me, I know! And sometimes you need help from outside, you can't be expected to handle it all on your own. I really do wonder what difficult child was avoiding at school. As parents we tend to think in terms of our difficult children avoiding learning; but there are many more things our kids are trying to avoid, many of them to do with other kids and how they are treating our kids. Your difficult child may have been trying to avoid a very unpleasant confrontation with other students, for example. Or trying to avoid being dragged into something unpleasant or illegal. And still, doesn't even want to be involved to the point of being accused of getting the other kid into even hotter water (sense of misguided loyalty plus "not wanting to dob"). Your difficult child is only 13, this is a very vulnerable age and boys at 13, especially difficult children, are very immature and not very socially capable, compared to girls. It's much more easy for others to manipulate them into doing the wrong thing. I'm certainly not saying that difficult child is innocent of any wrongdoing - but he may be compounding things badly now, trying to cover up for something not at all serious by acting impulsively and simply not being strong enough to stand up to this other kid. As for the various people you've called on for help - they sound as useful and organised as kindergarten kids trying to run the legal system. Hmmm... maybe less so. I would certainly complain, but to make it all more effective, document everything, minute all your phone calls and follow up with faxes outlining your concerns. It needn't be too onerous to do this - I work at my computer, I type as I talk/listen and this way I can even take down what someone says verbatim and quote it back at them if necessary. I date each phone call, after the call I get it organised, fix any obvious typos and make sure it's put away in the correct file (usually diary form, in order of date under a specific topic issue). For example, you could have a file specifically covering problems which have resulted since contact with this other kid, or it could go in a file of difficult child's breaking house arrest, or problems with PO not getting back to you when specially requested. One very important thing - I know you're getting worn down by all this, but if you can, do try to fully complete a call. If you cannot, arrange a callback to do so. When you had to go to take the other call you needed to either make it clear that business had already been dealt with as fully as possible at that time, or ask the person to call you back if they felt they had more to offer. That way you've put the ball in their court to come up with the goods; they can't later on claim you didn't give them a fair hearing or take their advice fully. Even when you're convinced the person you're talking to is an incompetent idiot, you still need to make sure you've clearly given them enough rope to hang themselves; the last thing you want is a complete idiot looking like the wronged party in a dispute about your child. It wastes the time you've already had to put in with the idiot. Hang in there. It mightn't be as bad as you think. Of course, I do think your detachment that you're trying to put in place is also good - it makes it easier for you to listen to difficult child without blowing your stack too readily. That is, if your difficult child can be persuaded to talk - because frankly, I think he's got nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing so, if only he can understand this. Good luck, it's not easy parenting a teen, let alone a difficult child one. Marg [/QUOTE]
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