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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 304228" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>A clarification here - the "His Lordship" tag was suggested by Star, until now Trish has referred to him as "DS19" which also gives his age.</p><p></p><p>We use all kinds of tags here for our kids. Doesn't mean we use them to their faces.</p><p></p><p>From my own experience with a now-adult and (allegedly; attemptedly, anyway) difficult child, I can assure you - some of them DO NOT mature when other so-called "normal" people do.</p><p></p><p>However, I do agree that a sticker chart wouldn't be a good idea. A variation on it, though, something that we used to have in my workplace, might be an idea, Trish.</p><p></p><p>In some ways our workplace was similar to a farm. We had a lot of physically demanding work to do, a wide range of chores in a wide range of locations. Some of it was interdependant (as in, "Do A first, then with the results of A, make B work.").</p><p></p><p>So we had a blackboard (you could also use a whiteboard) and on it we would write a list of jobs that needed doing. EVERYONE had to use that board, including the boss. He of course had his own special chores that we couldn't do for him. The list of jobs would be written up, and the person's name put next to it, who was going to do it. Sometimes we used a colour system (so a quick glance could tell you how much you had to do, and where, so you could coordinate your tasks).</p><p></p><p>As jobs get done, they get ticked off. At the end of the working day (or when people are taking a break, or saying, "I'm finsihed now,") you re-assess. IS it all done? To your satisfaction?</p><p></p><p>What you nneed Occupational Therapist (OT) be doing with him/for him now, is setting him up for independent living. To that end, you need to be making his environment as close to indepndent living as possible. Part od this is accountability. You are already working towards this with your rules on his access to power to run his games, etc. Seriously - if you must have currency for him, make that currency in kilowatt hours. To earn his allowance of kilowatt hours, he has the basic minimum of regular, assigned (as in written down) chores to do. Your chores (and everyone else's) chores are also written down. He needs to see what he does in comparison to how much you do. He needs perspective. And written down, gives better perspective.</p><p></p><p>This technique also more closely resembles how the work situaiotn often functions. You are also setting up a system which, if it works, he can use when he does eventually get a job.</p><p></p><p>Now to something I can help with, which is peculiarly Australian. We went through this with difficult child 1 and are gearing up for it with difficult child 3.</p><p></p><p>At 16 years old, an Austrlaian kid with a disability can plly for the Disability Pension (or whatever Centrelink is calling it THIS week!). When difficult child 1 was applying for it, a very helpful Centrelink social worker advised us to make sure that the bulk of his pension was 'locked away' from him, because otherwise he would go hog-wild and spend it all. Disability is designed to make it possible for a person to live indepndently, albeit with a struggle. It's frankly way too much for a kid living at home who doesn't know how to be responsible with money. To a teenager, it's a huge amount of money simply for doing nothing. They can go stupid on it and be really irresponsible.</p><p></p><p>Now, I don't know how you will be able to set this up, because it does require his cooperation. But maybe his therapist can help with this, because in the long run, DS19 ("His Lordship" - I love it! Thanks, Star) WILL be the one to benefit.</p><p></p><p>difficult child 1's pension was paid into his bank account (of course). But we made sure that a certain amount of it (we discussed it together, asked him to list his weekly expenses and included in the amount we required for board) was siphoned off into an investment account. We chose one of those accounts where interest is paid (at a higher rate) ONLY if you don't withdraw anything that month, and only if a deposit is made at least once a month. Now, the pension is paid fortnightly, so there was no problem about making deposits. We did have a problem for a while, because there had to be about two to three business days each fortnight, when the pension was paid in but the transfer to the investment account was not taken out. If difficult child 1 got to his account in that interval, he would clean it out and spend the lot (on toys and computer games). In his mind, if the money was accessible to his card, he could have the lot.</p><p></p><p>So for a while (remember, he was 16) we would ask him to give us his card the day before pension day, and we would give it back to him three days later when we knew the transfer had taken place.</p><p></p><p>We arranged it so that he was getting $50 a fortnight, and the rest was going into the investment account. Interest was paid monthly and it built up rapidly. By the time he finished school he had $15000 in the investment account.</p><p></p><p>Oh, one more very important thing - when we set up the investment account, we set it up with my signature as well as his, BOTH to sign. When he married, we added his wife to the signatory. They have since cleaned out that acccount (but with good reason). He is now 25 and in te 9 years, he learned to manage his money. He finally used a lot of it to buy his first vehicle. Cash. He made a bad choice of car, but tat is another story.</p><p></p><p>The thing is, he learnt to manage his money over this time, by letting him have free access to a much lesser amount. This meant he had to work harder to save up for a computer game or a toy.</p><p></p><p>The other thing we did - we could have set the transfers up to transfer his board to our account. But we wanted him to learn personal responsibility, so we expected him to withdraw the money and hand over the board money to us regularly each fortnight. Doing it by direct debit is too automatic and too easy, he wouldn't have learned. And now he has learned to be much more personally responsible for his bills.</p><p></p><p>If you can sell it to him, use the angle that he is using the bank's own system to help him save up for a nest egg. He will need to pay a deposit for a flat. He will want to buy his own car, pay for driving lessons etc. He will want (eventually) to buy his own butchers' knives and other work equipment. He needs to learn to budget, but he doesn't want to have you write out a budget for him. This way he can learn to work it out for himself, but with some of his money safeguarded for him each fortnight. He really doesn't need all that beer. And he really doesn't need to use his spare pension money to buy beer for his 'mates'. How often do they buy beers for him? Do they really properly reciprocate as a true Aussie male should? I bet not, from things you've said. So again, this should help him learn more realistic social reactions from his 'mates' and he will find out who are the true mates, and who are the ones hanging out for the free beer.</p><p></p><p>So there you have my two suggestions - a chores blackboard FOR EVERYBODY (so he doesn't feel singled out; and so he can learn a bit of perspective as well as teamwork) and an investment system where some of his pension (I would recommend about half, at least) is locked away each fortnight in an investment account in his name, but with two to sign. Don't you set it up for him, but you CAN walk him through the process, be with him as it's done. Only step in to advise and help if he looks like he's floundering. </p><p></p><p>When difficult child 1 was 19, he really was almost as helpless as His Lordship. In some ways, worse. At least he stayed in our house, but although we banned him hooking his game systems up to our TV, he went out and dragged hom a working TV from the Council Clean-Up pile and used that. There were times when I had to negotiate with him to limit his game time - he would voluntarily give me a vital component of his game system. You already have an option in place - you have access to his on-off switch.</p><p></p><p>The other thing - you're probably already doing this but when he does the chores, thank him. Praise him for it especially if he has done a good job. It really can help.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there. I hope the Wollies thing works out for him. Actually working can make a difference too. But watch out for Centrelink hassles - he has to personally show Centrelink his first pay slips, then they will start sending him rude letters about how they've overpaid him and if he doesn't p[ay it back they will come after him. But tey only ask for it back, a fortnight at a time. It caused all kinds of confusion and anger for difficult child 1. He would get a letter saying, "You have been overpaid $357, please pay it at your earliest opportunity or a fine will be payalbe. You should havenotified us as soon as you were working" (even though he did). He would pay the $357. Then a week or so later, he would get another letter worded exactly the same. His first reaction would be, "I've already paid this."WRONG. It's a different pay period. And they keep doing this until all pay periods have been covered and re-covered.</p><p></p><p>And Centrelink wonders why we hate their system so much!</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 304228, member: 1991"] A clarification here - the "His Lordship" tag was suggested by Star, until now Trish has referred to him as "DS19" which also gives his age. We use all kinds of tags here for our kids. Doesn't mean we use them to their faces. From my own experience with a now-adult and (allegedly; attemptedly, anyway) difficult child, I can assure you - some of them DO NOT mature when other so-called "normal" people do. However, I do agree that a sticker chart wouldn't be a good idea. A variation on it, though, something that we used to have in my workplace, might be an idea, Trish. In some ways our workplace was similar to a farm. We had a lot of physically demanding work to do, a wide range of chores in a wide range of locations. Some of it was interdependant (as in, "Do A first, then with the results of A, make B work."). So we had a blackboard (you could also use a whiteboard) and on it we would write a list of jobs that needed doing. EVERYONE had to use that board, including the boss. He of course had his own special chores that we couldn't do for him. The list of jobs would be written up, and the person's name put next to it, who was going to do it. Sometimes we used a colour system (so a quick glance could tell you how much you had to do, and where, so you could coordinate your tasks). As jobs get done, they get ticked off. At the end of the working day (or when people are taking a break, or saying, "I'm finsihed now,") you re-assess. IS it all done? To your satisfaction? What you nneed Occupational Therapist (OT) be doing with him/for him now, is setting him up for independent living. To that end, you need to be making his environment as close to indepndent living as possible. Part od this is accountability. You are already working towards this with your rules on his access to power to run his games, etc. Seriously - if you must have currency for him, make that currency in kilowatt hours. To earn his allowance of kilowatt hours, he has the basic minimum of regular, assigned (as in written down) chores to do. Your chores (and everyone else's) chores are also written down. He needs to see what he does in comparison to how much you do. He needs perspective. And written down, gives better perspective. This technique also more closely resembles how the work situaiotn often functions. You are also setting up a system which, if it works, he can use when he does eventually get a job. Now to something I can help with, which is peculiarly Australian. We went through this with difficult child 1 and are gearing up for it with difficult child 3. At 16 years old, an Austrlaian kid with a disability can plly for the Disability Pension (or whatever Centrelink is calling it THIS week!). When difficult child 1 was applying for it, a very helpful Centrelink social worker advised us to make sure that the bulk of his pension was 'locked away' from him, because otherwise he would go hog-wild and spend it all. Disability is designed to make it possible for a person to live indepndently, albeit with a struggle. It's frankly way too much for a kid living at home who doesn't know how to be responsible with money. To a teenager, it's a huge amount of money simply for doing nothing. They can go stupid on it and be really irresponsible. Now, I don't know how you will be able to set this up, because it does require his cooperation. But maybe his therapist can help with this, because in the long run, DS19 ("His Lordship" - I love it! Thanks, Star) WILL be the one to benefit. difficult child 1's pension was paid into his bank account (of course). But we made sure that a certain amount of it (we discussed it together, asked him to list his weekly expenses and included in the amount we required for board) was siphoned off into an investment account. We chose one of those accounts where interest is paid (at a higher rate) ONLY if you don't withdraw anything that month, and only if a deposit is made at least once a month. Now, the pension is paid fortnightly, so there was no problem about making deposits. We did have a problem for a while, because there had to be about two to three business days each fortnight, when the pension was paid in but the transfer to the investment account was not taken out. If difficult child 1 got to his account in that interval, he would clean it out and spend the lot (on toys and computer games). In his mind, if the money was accessible to his card, he could have the lot. So for a while (remember, he was 16) we would ask him to give us his card the day before pension day, and we would give it back to him three days later when we knew the transfer had taken place. We arranged it so that he was getting $50 a fortnight, and the rest was going into the investment account. Interest was paid monthly and it built up rapidly. By the time he finished school he had $15000 in the investment account. Oh, one more very important thing - when we set up the investment account, we set it up with my signature as well as his, BOTH to sign. When he married, we added his wife to the signatory. They have since cleaned out that acccount (but with good reason). He is now 25 and in te 9 years, he learned to manage his money. He finally used a lot of it to buy his first vehicle. Cash. He made a bad choice of car, but tat is another story. The thing is, he learnt to manage his money over this time, by letting him have free access to a much lesser amount. This meant he had to work harder to save up for a computer game or a toy. The other thing we did - we could have set the transfers up to transfer his board to our account. But we wanted him to learn personal responsibility, so we expected him to withdraw the money and hand over the board money to us regularly each fortnight. Doing it by direct debit is too automatic and too easy, he wouldn't have learned. And now he has learned to be much more personally responsible for his bills. If you can sell it to him, use the angle that he is using the bank's own system to help him save up for a nest egg. He will need to pay a deposit for a flat. He will want to buy his own car, pay for driving lessons etc. He will want (eventually) to buy his own butchers' knives and other work equipment. He needs to learn to budget, but he doesn't want to have you write out a budget for him. This way he can learn to work it out for himself, but with some of his money safeguarded for him each fortnight. He really doesn't need all that beer. And he really doesn't need to use his spare pension money to buy beer for his 'mates'. How often do they buy beers for him? Do they really properly reciprocate as a true Aussie male should? I bet not, from things you've said. So again, this should help him learn more realistic social reactions from his 'mates' and he will find out who are the true mates, and who are the ones hanging out for the free beer. So there you have my two suggestions - a chores blackboard FOR EVERYBODY (so he doesn't feel singled out; and so he can learn a bit of perspective as well as teamwork) and an investment system where some of his pension (I would recommend about half, at least) is locked away each fortnight in an investment account in his name, but with two to sign. Don't you set it up for him, but you CAN walk him through the process, be with him as it's done. Only step in to advise and help if he looks like he's floundering. When difficult child 1 was 19, he really was almost as helpless as His Lordship. In some ways, worse. At least he stayed in our house, but although we banned him hooking his game systems up to our TV, he went out and dragged hom a working TV from the Council Clean-Up pile and used that. There were times when I had to negotiate with him to limit his game time - he would voluntarily give me a vital component of his game system. You already have an option in place - you have access to his on-off switch. The other thing - you're probably already doing this but when he does the chores, thank him. Praise him for it especially if he has done a good job. It really can help. Hang in there. I hope the Wollies thing works out for him. Actually working can make a difference too. But watch out for Centrelink hassles - he has to personally show Centrelink his first pay slips, then they will start sending him rude letters about how they've overpaid him and if he doesn't p[ay it back they will come after him. But tey only ask for it back, a fortnight at a time. It caused all kinds of confusion and anger for difficult child 1. He would get a letter saying, "You have been overpaid $357, please pay it at your earliest opportunity or a fine will be payalbe. You should havenotified us as soon as you were working" (even though he did). He would pay the $357. Then a week or so later, he would get another letter worded exactly the same. His first reaction would be, "I've already paid this."WRONG. It's a different pay period. And they keep doing this until all pay periods have been covered and re-covered. And Centrelink wonders why we hate their system so much! Marg [/QUOTE]
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