Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
Parent Emeritus
It’s always something
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 740147" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>This is how close I am to the rocks.</p><p></p><p>I read this and I question myself. Of course what you say sounds right.</p><p></p><p>Of course our love and responsibility are greater than any comfort or convenience. Of course I am willing to sacrifice. How can that be questioned? I have sacrificed over and over and over again. My health, my well-being, my equilibrium, my hope....</p><p></p><p>But this is the fallacy. What you are saying (I beg your pardon) is a fallacy. It is fallacious. If it was a question of <em><strong><u>our</u></strong></em> sacrifice, commitment, responsibility or love...this would have worked.</p><p></p><p>But it never works. Because it is not our virtues, efforts, commitments, involvement, attitudes, dedication that can turn this around. If this worked, what we bring to the table, every single one of us on this board would have turned things around for our children.</p><p></p><p>But it is their own stuff that counts. It is their virtue, effort, motivation, commitment, responsibility, consistency that will do this. And if this is absent, they will not do it. They cannot do it. They have to suffer until they learn or not. Or put themselves in a program, and tie themselves to the mast.</p><p></p><p>This is what we miss every single time.</p><p></p><p>Okay. I am re-reading the beginning of your post, again. And I see you write: <em>he seemed ready; he seemed to want it.</em></p><p></p><p>I cannot say I have ever felt that way about my son, in these past 7 years.</p><p></p><p>But I can say this: I believe your son wants it. I believe he is ready to have stability. But does he have the habits and the mindset and the motivation to push through difficulty and accept his part in problems and to take the responsibility that needs to be taken to handle inevitable problems.</p><p></p><p>You know. I know. That there are moments in life when we have to take 100 percent of responsibility when problems arise. Particularly when we are vulnerable. Maybe there is no 30 year old that is prepared to do that. But he is next to homeless, without any resources at all. This is not the time to be obtuse and to assume anything. And yet our kids over and over again, do. They feel comfortable. Unconcerned. They assume power they do not have. In a sense they are eternal optimists. If there is food and housing today. Hey. I've got it made.</p><p></p><p>All of this is making me very, very sad. Sad for him. Sad for my son. Sad for you. Sad for me.</p><p></p><p>These kids are not intending to screw up, but screw up they do.<em><strong><u> The key here is our recognition that what we do for them does not work. </u></strong></em>I don't know how this works out. My son is showing no signs of learning anything. And this stagnancy has gone on for a long time. He is a one trick pony: marijuana.</p><p></p><p>I despair.</p><p></p><p>But life is suffering. I used to hate to read or hear that. But it is more real than not.</p><p></p><p>Feel your sadness. I will feel mine. But helping them solve their problems does not work. I tried. And tried. And tried. And tried. And then I tried some more.</p><p></p><p>I don't know what we do next. I really do not know. Because as sure as rain my son will show up and I don't think I have the heart to refuse him. Even though it does not work.</p><p></p><p>Except for one thing. That might save me. This last time when we were calling the cops a couple times a week, and he was squatting, two times he tried to force his way into my house to get something that was here.</p><p></p><p>I cannot tell you what happened, but in kind of a fugue-state (like traumatic amnesia) I did something to protect myself and I was unconscious of it at the time, like a sleepwalker. I only became aware when M ordered me to stop. I obeyed him, as if I was hypnotized. And only then did I awake. After you read this post I will delete it.</p><p></p><p>You see, I did not change because I got better or smarter or more in control of my responses and reactions. I changed because I got scared. I saw myself behaving like a trauma victim/like a battered and abused person. And I feared that I had lost myself.</p><p></p><p>That I had lived a long and successful life (more or less) and I had lost it. That I could lose it in a moment of trauma-based reaction to the bad behavior of my child, and my inability or unwillingness to set limits and to protect myself and my home. So the reason that I changed was that I had crossed a line, and I was forfeiting myself. And I was forced to see and accept this.</p><p></p><p>So. Don't think I am on any kind of high horse here. I was debased. And when I got there. I decided I could no longer go down more.</p><p></p><p>You see. The thing that we do not factor in here is: <u><em><strong>us.</strong></em></u> We matter. Your life matters.</p><p></p><p>Our kids do not consider how their behavior affects others, and as it affects us, even less. I think that is how I have changed in the past 10 weeks. I see that I matter too. And maybe I should even matter more, to me. (I never really considered the effect on me, at all.)</p><p></p><p>My son is an adult too. Maybe it is wrong to let your adult male children use you, or fail to consider you, or allow you and encourage you to sacrifice yourself. Maybe it is a lack of integrity, my integrity, that enables me to do that. Maybe It is lack of integrity rather than any virtue as a mother, as a woman, that kept me trying and trying.</p><p></p><p>I do not like to think of myself as lacking integrity. I do not like to think of myself as debasing myself. That was my bottom line.</p><p></p><p>I hope there is something here that is of use to you. Both of us have been abused. Each of us must have learned very early the necessity for self-sacrifice to care for parents. Each of us must have learned that we had ultimate responsibility. And could not tolerate to see parents vulnerable, because where, then would be? We might have sacrificed to protect siblings. I am making assumptions based upon my own psychology. But the thing is, maybe this knee-jerk necessity to stay in the game comes from someplace bad. And the better thing is to see this, and to act from this awareness.</p><p></p><p>I have come to the recognition and the acceptance that to act from this knee jerk feeling state that is 60 years old, is to impose my own psychological limits onto my child. To be his caretaker because I do not want to re-experience trauma again, is wrong for me, and for him. To do that is to use my child. And now that I am conscious, I do not want to do it any longer.</p><p></p><p>And now with the recognition, clear as a bell, that to enter into this dance with him, re-exposes me to trauma at his hands...well, finally I have some kind of a boundary.</p><p></p><p>Honestly. I do not know what I will do in the future. I feel clear, what I should do and what I should not. Will I hold? I don't know.</p><p></p><p>Honestly. It feels like I know what you should NOT do. But I am very, very clear that I do not. I feel very clear that my sense of conviction comes from my weakness, and doubt, and pain and fear.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 740147, member: 18958"] This is how close I am to the rocks. I read this and I question myself. Of course what you say sounds right. Of course our love and responsibility are greater than any comfort or convenience. Of course I am willing to sacrifice. How can that be questioned? I have sacrificed over and over and over again. My health, my well-being, my equilibrium, my hope.... But this is the fallacy. What you are saying (I beg your pardon) is a fallacy. It is fallacious. If it was a question of [I][B][U]our[/U][/B][/I] sacrifice, commitment, responsibility or love...this would have worked. But it never works. Because it is not our virtues, efforts, commitments, involvement, attitudes, dedication that can turn this around. If this worked, what we bring to the table, every single one of us on this board would have turned things around for our children. But it is their own stuff that counts. It is their virtue, effort, motivation, commitment, responsibility, consistency that will do this. And if this is absent, they will not do it. They cannot do it. They have to suffer until they learn or not. Or put themselves in a program, and tie themselves to the mast. This is what we miss every single time. Okay. I am re-reading the beginning of your post, again. And I see you write: [I]he seemed ready; he seemed to want it.[/I] I cannot say I have ever felt that way about my son, in these past 7 years. But I can say this: I believe your son wants it. I believe he is ready to have stability. But does he have the habits and the mindset and the motivation to push through difficulty and accept his part in problems and to take the responsibility that needs to be taken to handle inevitable problems. You know. I know. That there are moments in life when we have to take 100 percent of responsibility when problems arise. Particularly when we are vulnerable. Maybe there is no 30 year old that is prepared to do that. But he is next to homeless, without any resources at all. This is not the time to be obtuse and to assume anything. And yet our kids over and over again, do. They feel comfortable. Unconcerned. They assume power they do not have. In a sense they are eternal optimists. If there is food and housing today. Hey. I've got it made. All of this is making me very, very sad. Sad for him. Sad for my son. Sad for you. Sad for me. These kids are not intending to screw up, but screw up they do.[I][B][U] The key here is our recognition that what we do for them does not work. [/U][/B][/I]I don't know how this works out. My son is showing no signs of learning anything. And this stagnancy has gone on for a long time. He is a one trick pony: marijuana. I despair. But life is suffering. I used to hate to read or hear that. But it is more real than not. Feel your sadness. I will feel mine. But helping them solve their problems does not work. I tried. And tried. And tried. And tried. And then I tried some more. I don't know what we do next. I really do not know. Because as sure as rain my son will show up and I don't think I have the heart to refuse him. Even though it does not work. Except for one thing. That might save me. This last time when we were calling the cops a couple times a week, and he was squatting, two times he tried to force his way into my house to get something that was here. I cannot tell you what happened, but in kind of a fugue-state (like traumatic amnesia) I did something to protect myself and I was unconscious of it at the time, like a sleepwalker. I only became aware when M ordered me to stop. I obeyed him, as if I was hypnotized. And only then did I awake. After you read this post I will delete it. You see, I did not change because I got better or smarter or more in control of my responses and reactions. I changed because I got scared. I saw myself behaving like a trauma victim/like a battered and abused person. And I feared that I had lost myself. That I had lived a long and successful life (more or less) and I had lost it. That I could lose it in a moment of trauma-based reaction to the bad behavior of my child, and my inability or unwillingness to set limits and to protect myself and my home. So the reason that I changed was that I had crossed a line, and I was forfeiting myself. And I was forced to see and accept this. So. Don't think I am on any kind of high horse here. I was debased. And when I got there. I decided I could no longer go down more. You see. The thing that we do not factor in here is: [U][I][B]us.[/B][/I][/U] We matter. Your life matters. Our kids do not consider how their behavior affects others, and as it affects us, even less. I think that is how I have changed in the past 10 weeks. I see that I matter too. And maybe I should even matter more, to me. (I never really considered the effect on me, at all.) My son is an adult too. Maybe it is wrong to let your adult male children use you, or fail to consider you, or allow you and encourage you to sacrifice yourself. Maybe it is a lack of integrity, my integrity, that enables me to do that. Maybe It is lack of integrity rather than any virtue as a mother, as a woman, that kept me trying and trying. I do not like to think of myself as lacking integrity. I do not like to think of myself as debasing myself. That was my bottom line. I hope there is something here that is of use to you. Both of us have been abused. Each of us must have learned very early the necessity for self-sacrifice to care for parents. Each of us must have learned that we had ultimate responsibility. And could not tolerate to see parents vulnerable, because where, then would be? We might have sacrificed to protect siblings. I am making assumptions based upon my own psychology. But the thing is, maybe this knee-jerk necessity to stay in the game comes from someplace bad. And the better thing is to see this, and to act from this awareness. I have come to the recognition and the acceptance that to act from this knee jerk feeling state that is 60 years old, is to impose my own psychological limits onto my child. To be his caretaker because I do not want to re-experience trauma again, is wrong for me, and for him. To do that is to use my child. And now that I am conscious, I do not want to do it any longer. And now with the recognition, clear as a bell, that to enter into this dance with him, re-exposes me to trauma at his hands...well, finally I have some kind of a boundary. Honestly. I do not know what I will do in the future. I feel clear, what I should do and what I should not. Will I hold? I don't know. Honestly. It feels like I know what you should NOT do. But I am very, very clear that I do not. I feel very clear that my sense of conviction comes from my weakness, and doubt, and pain and fear. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
Parent Emeritus
It’s always something
Top