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<blockquote data-quote="hearts and roses" data-source="post: 421829" data-attributes="member: 2211"><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">Take anything I say with a grain of salt - My H and I have been through a lot of counseling, mostly me to stay sane and in the moment. Our favorite and more helpful counselor retired a while ago, but she was wonderful and very helpful in an honest and realistic way, which both H and I appreciated.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">This counselor took part of the serenity prayer and said, "remember that you are individuals coming from different families - everything that comes along...every dilemma, every moment of joy, every argument or disagreement, difference of opinion will present itself differently for both of you. How to approach things, how to resolve things, etc. One of you may be a talker, the other a brooder, etc. However, you BOTH need to accept the personality traits that you cannot change...have courage to change the things/habits you can change...and the strength and wisdom to know the difference". She stressed to us how much more important it is to appreciate the positives and downplay the negatives (In fact, other than breaches in the marital/relationship agreement such as an affair, there is no need to rip each other by listing out the things you don't like. You're correct - you cannot change people and why would you want to?). </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">For example, your H works hard and has stuck with your marriage through A LOT...but he didn't take the dog out the other day and it pooped on the kitchen floor. Are you saying that you've never had a moment when you didn't do something that caused a negative outcome? Yeah, it was gross and a pita to clean up dog poop, but was it monumental? Do you believe that you're the ONLY one who feels neglected, tired, stressed, physically ill or exasperated? </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">That's the kind of brutal honesty you want to have in your marriage and it stems from empathy. When you can take yourself out of the moment and try to see things from his perspective - and I'm only talking about those little annoyances or times when you feel he's being neglectful or just a slob, etc., because those are the little things that can really get in the way of just how much you do care for one another and love one another. Our counselor made us make lists as well, except we had only two lists: one that listed the reasons we wanted to be with one another (married/living together) - our decision to commit - and the other was a list of things that pleased us about the other, things like my H makes a pot of coffee every morning and walks the dogs and feeds them before I'm even out of bed, he carries heavy things for me so my back doesn't go out...I do his laundry and put it all away, I don't disturb him during 60 Minutes, etc. You get the idea. Anyway, along with these lists, she gave us a sheet on fair fighting, which you can find on line I think. It was great - we hung it on the fridge and when things became too heated between us, we'd call out a number that represented an item on the list, most often meaning that we needed to take a time out and revisit this topic later, if it was really that important. </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">Our more recent counselor, who is also good, though not as great as the other one, had us do a 'realilty check', meaning that we needed to recognize that there are certain things that will not change about the other. For instance, I will NEVER be a morning person and H will NEVER leave the bathroom the way he found it; I will NEVER care about the cleanliness of the garage and H will NEVER care about the floors being clean. I will NEVER be able to control him and he will NEVER be able to control me, no matter how hard we try or how great a case we make for our cause. </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">IOW, the bottom line with either counselor, was that in a marriage/relationship, there is not only some compromise, but ACCEPTANCE. By accepting one another as you are, that's not giving up and it certainly doesn't mean that certain behaviors won't P.iss Y.ou O.ff...but you do need to remind yourself of those things that you cannot change...and you each need to be honest about the things you can and are willing to change...and then decide which things are viable and which things are not...and then live with it.</span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">You know, it may be that you love one another but you're not meant to be together. Or, it may be that H has to put some things from his past behind him (re: exw), or it may mean that you have to stop expecting him to be one way when he is the other way, or stop doing so much for everyone all the time and then getting annoyed because you're exhausted and no one else is. That was my biggest problem: I'd be doing for everyone but me, and literally getting sick from it, and then I'd be really angry because no one else cared about those things as much as me and didn't help out. It's funny how I'm just not that into spending my weekends cleaning my house from top to bottom. I tidy up, get some laundry in, but I just can't expend all that energy anymore and then get really angry when someone tracks in mud or lets the dogs sleep on the couch or uses every towel in the closet....you get the idea. There's a certain lovely feeling from letting go of all that stuff and allowing others to take responsibility for some things (sometimes they surprisingly DO!)...we are not supposed to do everything, even when we're stay at home moms. There is no rule book you need to follow, your house doesn't need to be spotless and you are allowed to make your kids be responsible for walking/feeding the dog, cleaning the bathroom, helping make dinner, and doing their own homework (just some examples). </span></span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: darkslateblue">Like I said, I am no expert, however, H and I have weathered MANY horrible things and making what we learned in counseling work for us at home (both together and individually) has helped. Not perfect by any means, but helpful. I hope you're able to figure out what works for YOU.</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hearts and roses, post: 421829, member: 2211"] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]Take anything I say with a grain of salt - My H and I have been through a lot of counseling, mostly me to stay sane and in the moment. Our favorite and more helpful counselor retired a while ago, but she was wonderful and very helpful in an honest and realistic way, which both H and I appreciated.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]This counselor took part of the serenity prayer and said, "remember that you are individuals coming from different families - everything that comes along...every dilemma, every moment of joy, every argument or disagreement, difference of opinion will present itself differently for both of you. How to approach things, how to resolve things, etc. One of you may be a talker, the other a brooder, etc. However, you BOTH need to accept the personality traits that you cannot change...have courage to change the things/habits you can change...and the strength and wisdom to know the difference". She stressed to us how much more important it is to appreciate the positives and downplay the negatives (In fact, other than breaches in the marital/relationship agreement such as an affair, there is no need to rip each other by listing out the things you don't like. You're correct - you cannot change people and why would you want to?). [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]For example, your H works hard and has stuck with your marriage through A LOT...but he didn't take the dog out the other day and it pooped on the kitchen floor. Are you saying that you've never had a moment when you didn't do something that caused a negative outcome? Yeah, it was gross and a pita to clean up dog poop, but was it monumental? Do you believe that you're the ONLY one who feels neglected, tired, stressed, physically ill or exasperated? [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]That's the kind of brutal honesty you want to have in your marriage and it stems from empathy. When you can take yourself out of the moment and try to see things from his perspective - and I'm only talking about those little annoyances or times when you feel he's being neglectful or just a slob, etc., because those are the little things that can really get in the way of just how much you do care for one another and love one another. Our counselor made us make lists as well, except we had only two lists: one that listed the reasons we wanted to be with one another (married/living together) - our decision to commit - and the other was a list of things that pleased us about the other, things like my H makes a pot of coffee every morning and walks the dogs and feeds them before I'm even out of bed, he carries heavy things for me so my back doesn't go out...I do his laundry and put it all away, I don't disturb him during 60 Minutes, etc. You get the idea. Anyway, along with these lists, she gave us a sheet on fair fighting, which you can find on line I think. It was great - we hung it on the fridge and when things became too heated between us, we'd call out a number that represented an item on the list, most often meaning that we needed to take a time out and revisit this topic later, if it was really that important. [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]Our more recent counselor, who is also good, though not as great as the other one, had us do a 'realilty check', meaning that we needed to recognize that there are certain things that will not change about the other. For instance, I will NEVER be a morning person and H will NEVER leave the bathroom the way he found it; I will NEVER care about the cleanliness of the garage and H will NEVER care about the floors being clean. I will NEVER be able to control him and he will NEVER be able to control me, no matter how hard we try or how great a case we make for our cause. [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]IOW, the bottom line with either counselor, was that in a marriage/relationship, there is not only some compromise, but ACCEPTANCE. By accepting one another as you are, that's not giving up and it certainly doesn't mean that certain behaviors won't P.iss Y.ou O.ff...but you do need to remind yourself of those things that you cannot change...and you each need to be honest about the things you can and are willing to change...and then decide which things are viable and which things are not...and then live with it.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]You know, it may be that you love one another but you're not meant to be together. Or, it may be that H has to put some things from his past behind him (re: exw), or it may mean that you have to stop expecting him to be one way when he is the other way, or stop doing so much for everyone all the time and then getting annoyed because you're exhausted and no one else is. That was my biggest problem: I'd be doing for everyone but me, and literally getting sick from it, and then I'd be really angry because no one else cared about those things as much as me and didn't help out. It's funny how I'm just not that into spending my weekends cleaning my house from top to bottom. I tidy up, get some laundry in, but I just can't expend all that energy anymore and then get really angry when someone tracks in mud or lets the dogs sleep on the couch or uses every towel in the closet....you get the idea. There's a certain lovely feeling from letting go of all that stuff and allowing others to take responsibility for some things (sometimes they surprisingly DO!)...we are not supposed to do everything, even when we're stay at home moms. There is no rule book you need to follow, your house doesn't need to be spotless and you are allowed to make your kids be responsible for walking/feeding the dog, cleaning the bathroom, helping make dinner, and doing their own homework (just some examples). [/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][COLOR=darkslateblue]Like I said, I am no expert, however, H and I have weathered MANY horrible things and making what we learned in counseling work for us at home (both together and individually) has helped. Not perfect by any means, but helpful. I hope you're able to figure out what works for YOU.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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