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Relationship Patterns / Dysfunctional FOO Issues
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 671219" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>"What do you mean?"</p><p></p><p>That is the best reply to criticism or even, praise.</p><p></p><p>There is a quote about that, everyone. It goes something like, "The wise man does not waver before blame <em>or praise.</em>"</p><p></p><p>I fell into fascination over the praise part. This is very true. Not to be swayed by blame <em>or praise.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is true. D H does not hit me, though he says rotten, cutting things and is controlling and etc. I think that if we say: "I will not tolerate abuse.", we are opening ourselves and our people into a sadness where someone is the good guy and someone is the bad guy. To me, the phrases: "Is this really the way you want to treat your wife?" Or, "Is that what you meant to say to me? Is that what you want me to believe you think about me?"</p><p></p><p>This is what I mean when I am trying to explain what I see about risk and intimacy. We need to be very sure first that we will survive it if our mates go commando on us and roar on about terrible things that we cannot defend against because the fact that they are yelling is keying into the shame response and, as I think might be true (at least, it is for me) to the having been made invisible emptiness that lives beneath the shame response. </p><p></p><p>Isn't that something. As intense as the shame response was and still is...it was a defense, a cover, for invisible.</p><p></p><p>That is the worse thing: Invisible to ourselves. That is the wound. Not shame. Just as it was in the story: Shame is a signpost...and there are worse things, and that is where we are going, to save ourselves.</p><p></p><p>Now, where was I going with this?</p><p></p><p>I don't know.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>D H and I cannot do anything together ~ even shopping. It's almost funny. This happened when I became myself. Before that I was ~ I don't know. Almost an appendage of D H. I sheltered under his wing. I was afraid most of the time, then; was bound up in a role most of the time. It is not that I am not afraid, now. It is that I acknowledge that we all are afraid; that we all are human, like me.</p><p></p><p>It changes everything, to get that piece.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You wrote those lines after relating the story of M and the highway and the curving mountain road, Copa. You are wondering, I think, how to proceed in your relationship to M. Vulnerability with all its risks, or the shutting down; or the fear of expansion.</p><p></p><p>Go for vulnerable, Copa.</p><p></p><p>Spend it.</p><p></p><p>What I see in this story is M sliding into a lesser self; into a role. Because of the friend. Because of what it is to be seen as weak, or to be a man.</p><p></p><p>M chose correctly then, Copa. He was appalled at himself.</p><p></p><p>He will choose correctly, now. It takes courage to face it, when we recognize a role. Roles feel so strong, so certainly right. It is very spooky and nasty to give them up.</p><p></p><p>If M continues to insist on the role...you will know.</p><p></p><p>We will know.</p><p></p><p>The thing is, as you continue to heal, though you may need us to review the pieces of how things come together for the sake of your own integrity, you will not need us to know what to make of it, how to think of it.</p><p></p><p>You were always Germany, Copa. That is why you refused the role M presented on the highway. He was trying to insist you were Argentina. Or Mexico, and the role of his mother. </p><p></p><p>You are very strong; equally, very ethical.</p><p></p><p>I like that about you. I would like to learn that from you.</p><p></p><p>I am forever compromising my integrity because I don't even believe it when someone does something nasty. That is why I love ballet and martial arts. </p><p></p><p>No compromise.</p><p></p><p>It is what it is; a place to stand, a place to begin. Shame, and what lives beneath it, and learning to disregard the feelings. In a way, this is what Pema Chodron meant when she said there is no place to stand.</p><p></p><p>Or when someone said: "Have nothing to protect."</p><p></p><p>I need to go make breakfast now. It is Sunday, and I said I would make breakfast on Sunday. It's an integrity thing. Then, I foolishly said I would wash the car. I said that yesterday, in a fit of boastful generosity or something, after I washed my own little car. </p><p></p><p>Now I have to wash D H car or look like I have no integrity.</p><p></p><p>I said it because I was showing off about having washed my own car when everyone knows D H should have done that for me. </p><p></p><p>Oh, roar, when am I going to learn to stop doing that?!?</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 671219, member: 17461"] "What do you mean?" That is the best reply to criticism or even, praise. There is a quote about that, everyone. It goes something like, "The wise man does not waver before blame [I]or praise.[/I]" I fell into fascination over the praise part. This is very true. Not to be swayed by blame [I]or praise.[/I] This is true. D H does not hit me, though he says rotten, cutting things and is controlling and etc. I think that if we say: "I will not tolerate abuse.", we are opening ourselves and our people into a sadness where someone is the good guy and someone is the bad guy. To me, the phrases: "Is this really the way you want to treat your wife?" Or, "Is that what you meant to say to me? Is that what you want me to believe you think about me?" This is what I mean when I am trying to explain what I see about risk and intimacy. We need to be very sure first that we will survive it if our mates go commando on us and roar on about terrible things that we cannot defend against because the fact that they are yelling is keying into the shame response and, as I think might be true (at least, it is for me) to the having been made invisible emptiness that lives beneath the shame response. Isn't that something. As intense as the shame response was and still is...it was a defense, a cover, for invisible. That is the worse thing: Invisible to ourselves. That is the wound. Not shame. Just as it was in the story: Shame is a signpost...and there are worse things, and that is where we are going, to save ourselves. Now, where was I going with this? I don't know. D H and I cannot do anything together ~ even shopping. It's almost funny. This happened when I became myself. Before that I was ~ I don't know. Almost an appendage of D H. I sheltered under his wing. I was afraid most of the time, then; was bound up in a role most of the time. It is not that I am not afraid, now. It is that I acknowledge that we all are afraid; that we all are human, like me. It changes everything, to get that piece. You wrote those lines after relating the story of M and the highway and the curving mountain road, Copa. You are wondering, I think, how to proceed in your relationship to M. Vulnerability with all its risks, or the shutting down; or the fear of expansion. Go for vulnerable, Copa. Spend it. What I see in this story is M sliding into a lesser self; into a role. Because of the friend. Because of what it is to be seen as weak, or to be a man. M chose correctly then, Copa. He was appalled at himself. He will choose correctly, now. It takes courage to face it, when we recognize a role. Roles feel so strong, so certainly right. It is very spooky and nasty to give them up. If M continues to insist on the role...you will know. We will know. The thing is, as you continue to heal, though you may need us to review the pieces of how things come together for the sake of your own integrity, you will not need us to know what to make of it, how to think of it. You were always Germany, Copa. That is why you refused the role M presented on the highway. He was trying to insist you were Argentina. Or Mexico, and the role of his mother. You are very strong; equally, very ethical. I like that about you. I would like to learn that from you. I am forever compromising my integrity because I don't even believe it when someone does something nasty. That is why I love ballet and martial arts. No compromise. It is what it is; a place to stand, a place to begin. Shame, and what lives beneath it, and learning to disregard the feelings. In a way, this is what Pema Chodron meant when she said there is no place to stand. Or when someone said: "Have nothing to protect." I need to go make breakfast now. It is Sunday, and I said I would make breakfast on Sunday. It's an integrity thing. Then, I foolishly said I would wash the car. I said that yesterday, in a fit of boastful generosity or something, after I washed my own little car. Now I have to wash D H car or look like I have no integrity. I said it because I was showing off about having washed my own car when everyone knows D H should have done that for me. Oh, roar, when am I going to learn to stop doing that?!? Cedar [/QUOTE]
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