Slowly climbing into May

[newstart]

My 42 year old daughter and I went out of town to view the eclipse. She had a terrible cold so she did not say much and did not argue or get mean. She was ok and tired. We got to see the eclipse in full and it was glorious.
Lately she has been talking about a new job she started. I noticed that when I told her I was going to visit her inside her new place of business she got nervous. So today I went in to see for myself. OMG the lies she told me about who she worked with, the things she had to do and made up the most cockeyed stories.
Years ago when I went to counseling regulary to find ways to help me help her with the lies I got two conflicting methods. One was to call her out on every lie, or just ignore them. Whew! I tried the calling her out on each lie and it just makes her defensive, rude and she fights horribly when I question her lies. We would have no decent time together and the tension was always there... So then I tried to just ignore the lies..But is that really helping her? WTH! It is not helping me. Lies that don't make any sense at all. I have been reading about a disorder that is all about people that lie a lot and for no reason. Like a disorder that is seperate from bipolar or borderline. I have asked her point blank why she lies about stuff that does not even need to be lied about and she says she does not know. It is hard for me to believe for several reasons. One is that she has been through years of therapy and when I asked her if she knows she is lying she said yes but she just does not care. Or it is to distract me from something else that is going on in her life. Of all the above. How am I going to get to old age and have this awful lying to deal with. So for now I just listen and tell myself that there must be something she is dealing with and wants to distract me from the truth. By the time each of us parents live through the drama and foolishness of off track behavior we become therapists ourselves. I cannot tell you the number of books I have read on how to deal with such a person. The classes I have attended, the groups I belong to etc etc and sometimes it all comes tumbling down on me and it is too much. I have noticed that her voice changes when she lies and she repeats the lie over and over again to make it sound like a truth... Such a waste of time.

 

[Crayola14]

I understand your frustration and confusion. I have a relative who lies like that, and my husband has a relative in his extended family who acts that way. They actually believe the lies they tell everyone. It’s hard to understand. They have some type of disorder that isn’t normal. Everyone else in our families just let them talk and never take them seriously. We don’t usually call them out on their lies because they are so messed up that they actually believe their own lies. We never know the real story. We have gotten to the point that we don’t care what they say and never really know the truth. Sometimes they lie because they’re so used to lying that they lie about stuff that they don’t need to cover up or be ashamed of. It becomes a habit and they cannot even have a conversation without lying.

However, I understand why that upsets you because in your case it’s your daughter. When it’s extended family, it’s not as bad.

I wish I had some advice, but I don’t. I think these people are beyond help in some cases. We just listen without believing anything they say.

 

[ANewLife4Me]

My 42 year old daughter and I went out of town to view the eclipse. She had a terrible cold so she did not say much and did not argue or get mean. She was ok and tired. We got to see the eclipse in full and it was glorious.
Lately she has been talking about a new job she started. I noticed that when I told her I was going to visit her inside her new place of business she got nervous. So today I went in to see for myself. OMG the lies she told me about who she worked with, the things she had to do and made up the most cockeyed stories.
Years ago when I went to counseling regulary to find ways to help me help her with the lies I got two conflicting methods. One was to call her out on every lie, or just ignore them. Whew! I tried the calling her out on each lie and it just makes her defensive, rude and she fights horribly when I question her lies. We would have no decent time together and the tension was always there... So then I tried to just ignore the lies..But is that really helping her? WTH! It is not helping me. Lies that don't make any sense at all. I have been reading about a disorder that is all about people that lie a lot and for no reason. Like a disorder that is seperate from bipolar or borderline. I have asked her point blank why she lies about stuff that does not even need to be lied about and she says she does not know. It is hard for me to believe for several reasons. One is that she has been through years of therapy and when I asked her if she knows she is lying she said yes but she just does not care. Or it is to distract me from something else that is going on in her life. Of all the above. How am I going to get to old age and have this awful lying to deal with. So for now I just listen and tell myself that there must be something she is dealing with and wants to distract me from the truth. By the time each of us parents live through the drama and foolishness of off track behavior we become therapists ourselves. I cannot tell you the number of books I have read on how to deal with such a person. The classes I have attended, the groups I belong to etc etc and sometimes it all comes tumbling down on me and it is too much. I have noticed that her voice changes when she lies and she repeats the lie over and over again to make it sound like a truth... Such a waste of time.

Sounds like my daughter too newstart. Why they continue to do this is beyond me but in my case, my daughter actually starts believing these lies as truths. Maybe it’s a self coping mechanism to sort of staying “sane” in their world. She tells lies about us also and people believe her and it’s definitely become a truth to her as she tells the same thing over and over again.

Your part in all of this we all know what to do. You have tried both methods of approaching her lies that went badly, to ignore them just tears you up inside. Please just remember this is her life and her choices, lies and all. Be gentle on yourself and distance yourself from the lies, don’t let them become your world too. We have to let it roll off our shoulders and do the very best we can……for us.

 

[newstart]

Crayola14 & ANewLife4Me, Thank you for your thoughts. I do understand that this is my daughters world and to try to let it roll off my shoulders. But somedays I am not as strong as other days. I just have to believe that the lies are just distractions to keep me from the truth. I have also noticed that my daughter is putting on weight again. She lost so much of it after her boyfriend moved out. The hard part is when she gains a lot of weight the depression sets in and she get migrain headaches. One of the many things that I admired about my grandmother was that she was a truth teller. It was so refreshing to be with a person that you know is not going to give you a BS story. My husband is mostly honest and once in a while he will try to give me some BS. I've had a few friends that are straight shooters with the truth. The truth just feels good and right even if it is bad news.

 

[Copabanana]

I just have to believe that the lies are just distractions to keep me from the truth.

Hi newstart. I have been reading along. I wonder if who your daughter is trying to kid, is herself.

My sister who I haven't had a relationship with or seen for many years boasts. I just can't stand that quality. She likes asserting superiority over people. I can't stand that quality either. But the person she is trying to impress is herself, I think. Why else would she do it? (But I am only human. I have a hard time holding onto empathy for her. But I do miss her. She wants nothing to do with me. And I am not allowed to contact her. What a loss to HER.)

I think as parents it is very painful for us to accept that our children are frail or vulnerable. I know that is the case for me with my son.
It is almost preferable to see our children as trying on purpose to hurt and deceive us, rather than to see them as wounded.

Clearly, I would be an idiot to deny that our kids are indifferent to hurting us. After all, I and the rest of us here have the bruises and scars from the wounds. Personally, I have bloody gashes. I am not backing away from that, But your daughter's lies don't sound to me to be instrumental and manipulative as much as they seem to try to present her in a better light than may be real. You're implying that too.

In your daughter's case, it's sad because it seems she has so many positive qualities and attributes. I recall she is quite beautiful. And very good about making money. And quite intelligent. I remember she is adventurous. And I know she can be loving (sometimes.) I hope I am remembering right.

I feel it's quite sad to be unable to face who we are. And I see that quality in my son as well, who is utterly defensive about everything.

I guess all I am saying here, is that our situations are utterly heartbreaking. I have a broken heart too.

In fact, last night after speaking by phone to my son, I had another "heart attack." I get angina. Really sharp heart pain. Usually, it happens when I am asleep and wakes me up. Last night I was awake. Maybe that is a step up. I don't know.. My heart has been checked out twice,by the cardiologist with all kinds of tests; so I know it's my broken heart.

I don't know how to put a picture of a heart. So imagine it right here. Love.

 

[newstart]

Thank you again for your most compassionate note Copa. After my son died and my daughter developed adult on set bipolar I developed a heart condition. I went through all the tests and was told I had a murmur. My grief was so acute that I developed an actual broken heart. Then as time passed and I studied more about bipolar and grief my heart slowly healed. No murmur anymore and so far so good. I pray that you can heal your broken heart too.
You have a wonderful memory Copa, my daughter is beautiful, intelligent and can be kind. I sometimes forget about the bipolar/borderline and then it hits me hard. She still does things that are so weird, odd, far fetched and off course. I am sure some people think that I am odd or way out there but I treat others respectually and try to keep things balanced. A few of my friends tell me that I am their most balanced friend. I am a empath on the scale of 10 and it is hard to live like that sometimes. My husband tells me all the time that my intuition scares him sometimes. We are all born with the gift of intuition we just have to learn how to plug into it. There is a wonderful book by Gavin DeBecker called the Gift of Fear. He talks about intuition. I think everyone needs to read that book for their personal safety.
Copa, I am sorry that you son hurts your heart so much. We can always pray for miracles and I believe they still happen.
I am also sad to hear your sister in not nice to you. I have experienced that too. So sad and makes no sense at all.
Swim season is starting up again and I can't wait to get into the water outside. I swim inside now but nothing like the warm sun early in the morning.
My daughter will be here for breakfast in the morning. She loves homemade fresh waffles. I make them with almond milk and it is her new favorite.
If she is in a good mood the breakfast will go well but when the lying starts I feel my blood pressure go up and I feel nauseated. My husband just leaves the room.
I have enjoyed watching Play Misty for Me an old Clint Eastwood movie on Netflex. I am not much of a TV watcher but love the 70s words and music. It was such a fun time in my life. Also Mind Hunters, the most outstanding series I think I have ever watched.
Much love back to you in abundance.

 

[Beta]

My sister who I haven't had a relationship with or seen for many years boasts. I just can't stand that quality. She likes asserting superiority over people. I can't stand that quality either. But the person she is trying to impress is herself, I think. Why else would she do it? (But I am only human. I have a hard time holding onto empathy for her. But I do miss her. She wants nothing to do with me. And I am not allowed to contact her. What a loss to HER.)

I'm sorry about this, Copa. I'm sure you do miss your sister, even though she sounds like she has not been very nice to you. I have a sister too, but we're estranged, as well. She is very narcissistic and when Josh was here in the spring of 2022 for four months, before he returned to where he is now, she was, to use a cliche, "just not there for me." I realized that my life and my family meant nothing to her; I was merely window-dressing in her life. So I just pulled back from her.

I also wanted to just say, in regard to your son, that I'm so sorry for the hurt you live with because of his illness/life circumstances. I know the words have been said many times and they don't change anything, but I want you to know how very much I understand the emotions.

 

[Copabanana]

I want you to know how very much I understand the emotions.

Thank you very much Beta. We understand each other. What a gift that is.

 

[SeekinghopeNZ]

Newstart I can relate. The lies have caused such a breakdown in our relationship with our daughter. We truly cannot believe anything she says. It is so erosive because many of the things she says are awful crisis things, like her friend has died, or her boyfriend has been hitting her. She even lied about a pregnancy once before and that is why we didn't believe her this time round and had to ask for proof. She did show us proof and that is how we know she is pregnant, but now I can't trust any details she gives about her partner or living situation. We have a mixed approach to the lies. Sometimes I tell her straight up I don't trust what she is saying and I need evidence. Sometimes I have to ignore the lies because I know that it makes no difference if I call her out. The saddest part is that things that might be true I now always assume to be a lie first. She lies sometimes to tell us what she thinks we want to hear, but most of the time I have come to see that she lies because she is trying to manipulate an outcome that she wants and to get the attention, control or validation she needs. I can feel your pain because it is so destructive. Sometimes they say something that brings hope - like a job, only for it to come crashing down at the lie, and sometimes I hear the most awful soul-destroying things that I can only hope and pray are a lie. Other people also fall victim to her lying which is also sad. I am glad you had that eclipse moment together - a gracious moment of togetherness that shows your love and compassion despite the exhaustion of what you have to live with.

 

[newstart]

Thank you SeekinghopeinNZ. Thank you for writing such a compassionate note. Welcome to our site and thank you for sharing your story and walking this journey with us. All the lies are awful but the lies that involve someones health are the worst. I have explained in detail how much respect my daughter loses because of her horrific lies. It is almost as her brain goes on off and her mouth just makes noise to distract what is really going on. My daughter is also a liar to all others. I can't imagine being married to a compulsive liar and having to deal with money matters. It would be a damn nightmare. My daughter is sometimes uncomfortable with me because I am intuitive and can listen to the tone of her voice and know she is lying. Having a relationship with her is actual work. There are times here and there as she has become older that she is truthful. I always have to check and double check to make sure though. I wish you much peace SeekinghopeinNZ and my prayer for you is that you daughter straightens out soon. Hopefully the new grandbaby that is coming with knock some sense into her. And congratulations to the new life that is coming.