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Thanks to all of you who were so helpful this week.
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 654414" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Ha! Me, either. Unless I have lied to myself so well I cannot see a different truth, I am such a bad liar!!! Not that I haven't tried. But I trip all over myself and feel so rotten and cheap when I lie knowingly. My sister, on the other hand, has actually earned money on an airplane because she was unmarried and pregnant.</p><p></p><p>I have posted about that, before.</p><p></p><p>We all need to do what we do to survive. We cannot be where we are not, yet.</p><p></p><p>But there is that difference, between my sister and me. She doesn't mind targeting and attacking to...I'm not sure what. It could be that she really needed that money. But on that same trip, she bought herself the most beautiful, so expensive dress to wear to dinner with me and our mutual mother. While at dinner, she flirted outrageously with an attractive man at the next table.</p><p></p><p>When I asked about the dress, all she said was, "I deserve it."</p><p></p><p>The dress seemed like a thing that would wear out and be worthless to me. Not worth compromising a value for. But I am very sure I would compromise every value I hold too, if the right set of circumstances presented themselves.</p><p></p><p>I am very sure this is true.</p><p></p><p>So, hard to know how to think about these kinds of things.</p><p></p><p>Some of us create our own luck. I think that might be how my sister sees things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>We learned that same lesson about grieving the things we never really had with our kids, remember?</p><p></p><p>Maybe that is why this extended family part is easier to unravel.</p><p></p><p>We have already had to face so many truths about ourselves, and about our own children. This stuff about unraveling the harm done in our families of origin is a thin echo, a kind of grieving something that never was, compared to that.</p><p></p><p>Still, it has to be done, if our intention is to reclaim ourselves.</p><p></p><p>I am glad you are here to do that with me.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ha! You are so funny. "I would rather give that crapola to the therapists or to people who don't know me, like here."</p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/rofl.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rofl:" title="rofl :rofl:" data-shortname=":rofl:" /></p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/emoticons/hugs.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":hugs:" title="hugs :hugs:" data-shortname=":hugs:" /></p><p></p><p>Here is the thing I think I see in my sister's and my brother's (currently non-existent) relationship to one another.</p><p></p><p>1) Initially, my sister would approach family members through me. She would encourage me to do whatever it is she was doing (i.e. the pact). I would always think that was a great idea, because it seemed to me that if we all kept trying to fix it hard enough, it would get fixed. The thing I never understood was that people who are healthier than me see right through my sister. As far as I was concerned, there was nothing to see through. She was fine just the way she was, and it was my job to protect her, and to help her if I could because I was the oldest.</p><p></p><p>I am two years and six months older.</p><p></p><p>When we were little, and when I could not protect her or anyone else, that was alot. It still makes me sick to think about those times. Interestingly enough, I am deeply, almost insanely, angry about what was done to all of us, now.</p><p></p><p>It probably isn't really insane. I am new to acknowledging anger, it's validity, or my right to it.</p><p></p><p>So, I lost track of that thought for a minute, there. The thing is, my sister used me to establish the legitimacy of her actions once she had been seen through by her victims, or once the victims stopped opening themselves to her victimization.</p><p></p><p>That is what is called being labeled "the romantic one".</p><p></p><p>2) Your brother, like mine, seems to have been the outsider in the dynamic between the mother, the grandmother, and the sisters. In my case, there was such horrifying and intentional and repetitive abuse of her sons, and even of a male dog we had, by my mother.</p><p></p><p>I don't even know what to think about the feelings I am allowing to come right to life about my poor old mother. Who is too old to defend herself, now. Shame on me.</p><p></p><p>But she is still just as mean as a snake.</p><p></p><p>Oh for heaven's sake. Where was I going with this.</p><p></p><p>Okay. Your brother is as tender inside as every human. (And animal, in my opinion.) He longs for love and acceptance and validation, too. Your sister, like mine does too, is targeting him for an ally.</p><p></p><p>He has no personal value to her.</p><p></p><p>In dysfunctional families, there is pain and really, tragic loss, all around us.</p><p></p><p>My last words to my brother were that I loved him, and that he would always have access to me.</p><p></p><p>That is all I can do.</p><p></p><p>Tell him in advance that I will not reject him.</p><p></p><p>Love ~ that word means so strange a toxic concoction in my family of origin.</p><p></p><p>I am not being very clear in my writing to you about this. Too close to home. I have concluded that the right thing for me is to stand ready if he should contact me.</p><p></p><p>And to remember that I want to know him, want to learn him and enjoy a brother. That is a rare thing. We are fortunate if we have a brother in our lives.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>She used the word that would hurt you, that would break and weaken you.</p><p></p><p>Like mine, your family of origin plays an exquisitely balanced game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think your brother is not laughing his own laughter.</p><p></p><p>I think the most loving thing you could do for this brother is to continue posting your truth as you uncover it. That, and to hold an intention that you will allow him access to you at any time he decides to verify what is happening to him regarding his past.</p><p></p><p>That is how we came real too, SWOT.</p><p></p><p>We had one another to validate sanity while we explored the insanity that was our truth.</p><p></p><p>We made it.</p><p></p><p>So will he.</p><p></p><p>When he does, he will want to see you. But what is gone is gone, and cannot be replaced. Maybe, we could begin with our brothers from whatever point in the future they risk pushing against the cage door.</p><p></p><p>They were not the Golden Child, SWOT. They were the Prince, dethroned for the sake of the dysfunction. </p><p></p><p>In our families of origin, everything serviced dysfunction.</p><p></p><p>When I think how much it cost all of us, for so paltry a reward, I am sickened.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No.</p><p></p><p>I think that is a gaslighting lie your sister is telling you. And anyone else who will listen. Dysfunction is a serious thing. She may never break through. We need to thank our lucky stars, SWOT, that we did break through.</p><p></p><p>And lived to tell the tale.</p><p></p><p>It has been very hard.</p><p></p><p>We have both been determined, and very brave.</p><p></p><p>Remember how shaming it was to confess to these things, even here, in the beginning. But we did it.</p><p></p><p>How extraordinary.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>But is she that good...or is the dysfunction that toxic. I see my sister wearing people out. I know she tapes all her phone conversations. I never knew why. But that is a mark of illness and paranoia. Texts (or posts here) are a different thing. They are already recorded, and not for nefarious purposes, and not by us because we don't trust the person we are interacting with.</p><p></p><p>it just so happened that there they were, and they saved our emotional lives.</p><p></p><p>When the bad thing happened, we just went back to check our own words ~ not to find the words that would condemn or weaken the other guy.</p><p></p><p>Intrinsic difference, maybe...I don't know so much about that. Only that I did go back to the conversations and there it was, plain as day, just as I'd remembered it.</p><p></p><p>So it was real, then.</p><p></p><p>And because I had proof of what reality was, I did not get sicker.</p><p></p><p>It did not make me well, but I did not get sicker.</p><p></p><p>And then, one day or another, I did get well.</p><p></p><p>And so did you.</p><p></p><p>We are just clarifying what wellness looks like, because we have never been well before. We have always looked to someone else to know whether all was well, or whether there was a fire we needed to put out or someone to give CPR to or whatever.</p><p></p><p>Wishing you (and everyone in your family) well and happy, SWOT. When one of us breaks free of it, the dysfunction loses its hold on the others.</p><p></p><p>Unless they insist on the dysfunction.</p><p></p><p>And that is on them, and has nothing to do with us.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 654414, member: 17461"] Ha! Me, either. Unless I have lied to myself so well I cannot see a different truth, I am such a bad liar!!! Not that I haven't tried. But I trip all over myself and feel so rotten and cheap when I lie knowingly. My sister, on the other hand, has actually earned money on an airplane because she was unmarried and pregnant. I have posted about that, before. We all need to do what we do to survive. We cannot be where we are not, yet. But there is that difference, between my sister and me. She doesn't mind targeting and attacking to...I'm not sure what. It could be that she really needed that money. But on that same trip, she bought herself the most beautiful, so expensive dress to wear to dinner with me and our mutual mother. While at dinner, she flirted outrageously with an attractive man at the next table. When I asked about the dress, all she said was, "I deserve it." The dress seemed like a thing that would wear out and be worthless to me. Not worth compromising a value for. But I am very sure I would compromise every value I hold too, if the right set of circumstances presented themselves. I am very sure this is true. So, hard to know how to think about these kinds of things. Some of us create our own luck. I think that might be how my sister sees things. Yes. We learned that same lesson about grieving the things we never really had with our kids, remember? Maybe that is why this extended family part is easier to unravel. We have already had to face so many truths about ourselves, and about our own children. This stuff about unraveling the harm done in our families of origin is a thin echo, a kind of grieving something that never was, compared to that. Still, it has to be done, if our intention is to reclaim ourselves. I am glad you are here to do that with me. :O) Ha! You are so funny. "I would rather give that crapola to the therapists or to people who don't know me, like here." :rofl: :hugs: Here is the thing I think I see in my sister's and my brother's (currently non-existent) relationship to one another. 1) Initially, my sister would approach family members through me. She would encourage me to do whatever it is she was doing (i.e. the pact). I would always think that was a great idea, because it seemed to me that if we all kept trying to fix it hard enough, it would get fixed. The thing I never understood was that people who are healthier than me see right through my sister. As far as I was concerned, there was nothing to see through. She was fine just the way she was, and it was my job to protect her, and to help her if I could because I was the oldest. I am two years and six months older. When we were little, and when I could not protect her or anyone else, that was alot. It still makes me sick to think about those times. Interestingly enough, I am deeply, almost insanely, angry about what was done to all of us, now. It probably isn't really insane. I am new to acknowledging anger, it's validity, or my right to it. So, I lost track of that thought for a minute, there. The thing is, my sister used me to establish the legitimacy of her actions once she had been seen through by her victims, or once the victims stopped opening themselves to her victimization. That is what is called being labeled "the romantic one". 2) Your brother, like mine, seems to have been the outsider in the dynamic between the mother, the grandmother, and the sisters. In my case, there was such horrifying and intentional and repetitive abuse of her sons, and even of a male dog we had, by my mother. I don't even know what to think about the feelings I am allowing to come right to life about my poor old mother. Who is too old to defend herself, now. Shame on me. But she is still just as mean as a snake. Oh for heaven's sake. Where was I going with this. Okay. Your brother is as tender inside as every human. (And animal, in my opinion.) He longs for love and acceptance and validation, too. Your sister, like mine does too, is targeting him for an ally. He has no personal value to her. In dysfunctional families, there is pain and really, tragic loss, all around us. My last words to my brother were that I loved him, and that he would always have access to me. That is all I can do. Tell him in advance that I will not reject him. Love ~ that word means so strange a toxic concoction in my family of origin. I am not being very clear in my writing to you about this. Too close to home. I have concluded that the right thing for me is to stand ready if he should contact me. And to remember that I want to know him, want to learn him and enjoy a brother. That is a rare thing. We are fortunate if we have a brother in our lives. She used the word that would hurt you, that would break and weaken you. Like mine, your family of origin plays an exquisitely balanced game. I think your brother is not laughing his own laughter. I think the most loving thing you could do for this brother is to continue posting your truth as you uncover it. That, and to hold an intention that you will allow him access to you at any time he decides to verify what is happening to him regarding his past. That is how we came real too, SWOT. We had one another to validate sanity while we explored the insanity that was our truth. We made it. So will he. When he does, he will want to see you. But what is gone is gone, and cannot be replaced. Maybe, we could begin with our brothers from whatever point in the future they risk pushing against the cage door. They were not the Golden Child, SWOT. They were the Prince, dethroned for the sake of the dysfunction. In our families of origin, everything serviced dysfunction. When I think how much it cost all of us, for so paltry a reward, I am sickened. No. I think that is a gaslighting lie your sister is telling you. And anyone else who will listen. Dysfunction is a serious thing. She may never break through. We need to thank our lucky stars, SWOT, that we did break through. And lived to tell the tale. It has been very hard. We have both been determined, and very brave. Remember how shaming it was to confess to these things, even here, in the beginning. But we did it. How extraordinary. Yes. But is she that good...or is the dysfunction that toxic. I see my sister wearing people out. I know she tapes all her phone conversations. I never knew why. But that is a mark of illness and paranoia. Texts (or posts here) are a different thing. They are already recorded, and not for nefarious purposes, and not by us because we don't trust the person we are interacting with. it just so happened that there they were, and they saved our emotional lives. When the bad thing happened, we just went back to check our own words ~ not to find the words that would condemn or weaken the other guy. Intrinsic difference, maybe...I don't know so much about that. Only that I did go back to the conversations and there it was, plain as day, just as I'd remembered it. So it was real, then. And because I had proof of what reality was, I did not get sicker. It did not make me well, but I did not get sicker. And then, one day or another, I did get well. And so did you. We are just clarifying what wellness looks like, because we have never been well before. We have always looked to someone else to know whether all was well, or whether there was a fire we needed to put out or someone to give CPR to or whatever. Wishing you (and everyone in your family) well and happy, SWOT. When one of us breaks free of it, the dysfunction loses its hold on the others. Unless they insist on the dysfunction. And that is on them, and has nothing to do with us. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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