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the ball is in his court??
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 723124" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>new leaf. sorry. can't quote on cell. </p><p></p><p>dealing with the real. as it emerges.. </p><p></p><p>tough to do. i am learning. very slowly.</p><p></p><p>lbl. yes. we seem to be in the same phase. learning similar lessons. but with different strengths and frailties. thank you for your care, constancy, honesty and support. all of you.</p><p></p><p>sam. i hear what you are saying. and i agree. let me put context to my choices.</p><p></p><p>i have for four years mourned my mother. and struggled to forgive myself because i could not accept her fully. i could not and would not tolerate how she treated me. i did not strive to find the voice to speak for myself in relation to her. i was not strong enough. i made distance for many years. (we had a relationship for the last 20 years. largely by phone.) my grief (and my loss) when she died were insurmountable. </p><p></p><p>my father died 35 years ago. i learned of his death 5 years after the fact. we had no relationship for the 5 years before he died. he was an alcoholic and drug user. i felt trashed and degraded around him. he came to hate me because i made distance. i never was able to speak up for myself with him, either.</p><p></p><p>nor with my sister who treated me as a non-person.</p><p></p><p>any strength and confidence i have gained in relationship has been with m in the last 8 years. (and m is not a piece of cake.) and with my son.</p><p></p><p>so how does this relate to abuse and boundaries to same?</p><p></p><p>one. i recognize i was abused. i did not, could not have boundaries. i was abandoned by both parents and i abandoned myself. i still do. sometimes.</p><p></p><p>two. i recognize that the intensity of my reaction and fear with my son is related in part to my past. i forgive myself and i believe he forgives me.</p><p></p><p>but he deserves voice. and i can give him that. if he has voice then he can decide to temper it and control it. this is something i did not have a chance to do with my parents and stepfather. i turned this voice against myself.</p><p></p><p>my son has been abusive. not physically (except for the time when he was 17 when he used a defensive martial arts move against me-i had not touched him). but abuse as in manipulation, hostility, control and betrayal.</p><p></p><p> i call him on it. i have thrown him out over and over again. i have called the cops. maybe a dozen times. or more. i have not spoken to him for months.</p><p></p><p>but this is the thing. he is changing. i see it. and i am too. this relationship is holding and it is healing. i never had this before in my life. and it came late.</p><p></p><p>i am committed to him. as each of you are to your children. i believe that people change in relationship. i believe that i need to change as much or more than he does. i believe that i am finding voice i never had through these relationships i have now. with my son and m.</p><p></p><p>i believe i can find a kind of strength by not reacting to every single thing. by keeping centered in myself. by compassion and listening. i am hugely (yugely) imperfect.</p><p></p><p>some of you for sure believe this is accepting abuse. i undestand.</p><p></p><p>i have this practice that i came up with with m. who i have said can be direct. and critical. i imagine myself with physical boundaries a few feet bigger than i really am. i attend to every single thing m says. and hear him. i listen. i try to understand. i no longer try to defend myself. i try to imagine myself big and strong. And autonomous and grown up. </p><p></p><p>i do not feel abused or passive. i used to. (but to be honest i do think-why take seriously or personally obnoxious behavior that is clearly ridiculous.) </p><p></p><p>several of you have said the same thing. in relation to our kids. why take seriously drivel and garbage? but i recognize my choices are clearly only those i feel make sense. they come from my values and history. i only ask to not be judged publically or shamed.</p><p></p><p>bad behavior by others is not about me. if i am abused i need to walk away. or to shut the door. but i can trust myself now. i can evaluate and reevaluate the situation. i can trust myself to have a conversation that is not pretty and i can be open to the possibility that the people i love can seek to become better people in relation to me. as i can be. in relation to them.</p><p></p><p>this is something i never before had. trust. of myself. or anybody else.</p><p></p><p>after a lifetime (hopefully i have a lot of time left) i feel and see it is not about me--when people behave badly. it is not my fault. it is about them. let them own it. i do not have to take it on...to catch it. i can let it be. </p><p></p><p>or i can shut it down. i am no longer a child.</p><p></p><p>it can just stay suspended in the air. for them to think about, to own. and change. as they wish. now. </p><p></p><p>i am free now. i can leave each relationship. they know that. both need me as much or more than i need them. but i don't want to leave.i may want to later. i do not want to today. and i don't want my son to leave either. but he can.</p><p></p><p>i do not have to take irrevocable stands.</p><p></p><p>i do not know why my son has been mean to me. i can guess it has something to do with our strong attachment and his tough, tough life. and the betrayal by and abandonment by his birth parents. </p><p></p><p>i do not know why my parents were mean to me. </p><p></p><p>i spent a lifetime believing i did not deserve better.</p><p></p><p>i do. </p><p></p><p>thank you everybody for your honesty. i am so blessed.</p><p></p><p>ps. kalahou. i so valued your post. you guided me throughout this day and yesterday to let my son have his dignity, autonomy and separate identity. to not so much impose my needs and values. to back off and let him go. imperfectly, i tried. and thank you. lil thank you for reminding me that i was reasonable. and new leaf. your compassion and wisdom are a salve.</p><p></p><p>this is sounding like the academy awards. and you guys are the winners.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 723124, member: 18958"] new leaf. sorry. can't quote on cell. dealing with the real. as it emerges.. tough to do. i am learning. very slowly. lbl. yes. we seem to be in the same phase. learning similar lessons. but with different strengths and frailties. thank you for your care, constancy, honesty and support. all of you. sam. i hear what you are saying. and i agree. let me put context to my choices. i have for four years mourned my mother. and struggled to forgive myself because i could not accept her fully. i could not and would not tolerate how she treated me. i did not strive to find the voice to speak for myself in relation to her. i was not strong enough. i made distance for many years. (we had a relationship for the last 20 years. largely by phone.) my grief (and my loss) when she died were insurmountable. my father died 35 years ago. i learned of his death 5 years after the fact. we had no relationship for the 5 years before he died. he was an alcoholic and drug user. i felt trashed and degraded around him. he came to hate me because i made distance. i never was able to speak up for myself with him, either. nor with my sister who treated me as a non-person. any strength and confidence i have gained in relationship has been with m in the last 8 years. (and m is not a piece of cake.) and with my son. so how does this relate to abuse and boundaries to same? one. i recognize i was abused. i did not, could not have boundaries. i was abandoned by both parents and i abandoned myself. i still do. sometimes. two. i recognize that the intensity of my reaction and fear with my son is related in part to my past. i forgive myself and i believe he forgives me. but he deserves voice. and i can give him that. if he has voice then he can decide to temper it and control it. this is something i did not have a chance to do with my parents and stepfather. i turned this voice against myself. my son has been abusive. not physically (except for the time when he was 17 when he used a defensive martial arts move against me-i had not touched him). but abuse as in manipulation, hostility, control and betrayal. i call him on it. i have thrown him out over and over again. i have called the cops. maybe a dozen times. or more. i have not spoken to him for months. but this is the thing. he is changing. i see it. and i am too. this relationship is holding and it is healing. i never had this before in my life. and it came late. i am committed to him. as each of you are to your children. i believe that people change in relationship. i believe that i need to change as much or more than he does. i believe that i am finding voice i never had through these relationships i have now. with my son and m. i believe i can find a kind of strength by not reacting to every single thing. by keeping centered in myself. by compassion and listening. i am hugely (yugely) imperfect. some of you for sure believe this is accepting abuse. i undestand. i have this practice that i came up with with m. who i have said can be direct. and critical. i imagine myself with physical boundaries a few feet bigger than i really am. i attend to every single thing m says. and hear him. i listen. i try to understand. i no longer try to defend myself. i try to imagine myself big and strong. And autonomous and grown up. i do not feel abused or passive. i used to. (but to be honest i do think-why take seriously or personally obnoxious behavior that is clearly ridiculous.) several of you have said the same thing. in relation to our kids. why take seriously drivel and garbage? but i recognize my choices are clearly only those i feel make sense. they come from my values and history. i only ask to not be judged publically or shamed. bad behavior by others is not about me. if i am abused i need to walk away. or to shut the door. but i can trust myself now. i can evaluate and reevaluate the situation. i can trust myself to have a conversation that is not pretty and i can be open to the possibility that the people i love can seek to become better people in relation to me. as i can be. in relation to them. this is something i never before had. trust. of myself. or anybody else. after a lifetime (hopefully i have a lot of time left) i feel and see it is not about me--when people behave badly. it is not my fault. it is about them. let them own it. i do not have to take it on...to catch it. i can let it be. or i can shut it down. i am no longer a child. it can just stay suspended in the air. for them to think about, to own. and change. as they wish. now. i am free now. i can leave each relationship. they know that. both need me as much or more than i need them. but i don't want to leave.i may want to later. i do not want to today. and i don't want my son to leave either. but he can. i do not have to take irrevocable stands. i do not know why my son has been mean to me. i can guess it has something to do with our strong attachment and his tough, tough life. and the betrayal by and abandonment by his birth parents. i do not know why my parents were mean to me. i spent a lifetime believing i did not deserve better. i do. thank you everybody for your honesty. i am so blessed. ps. kalahou. i so valued your post. you guided me throughout this day and yesterday to let my son have his dignity, autonomy and separate identity. to not so much impose my needs and values. to back off and let him go. imperfectly, i tried. and thank you. lil thank you for reminding me that i was reasonable. and new leaf. your compassion and wisdom are a salve. this is sounding like the academy awards. and you guys are the winners. 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