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The fear that your child could die
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 740790" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>This is so cruel.</p><p></p><p>What he is saying is that there is no place for you to stand with him. If you say your truth, you are in trouble. If you do not, you are in trouble. And you are to blame either way. If you advocate for him, you stress him out and he will die. If you say nothing, you fail to protect him.</p><p></p><p>You are truly in a lose-lose situation with him.</p><p></p><p>Our children are very hard to detach from, as in, complete no contact. In my being on the board it seems it takes a truly life-death situation, to do so. As in we become deathly ill and to continue with the stress of these relationships will kill us. Even then, it is hard for us to do.</p><p></p><p>I was reading yesterday I think about time outs. Which is what it seems you are doing right now. Maybe it was a post of Elsi. Where she pulls back when there is real abuse, and hovers in the background until the child demonstrates some self-control and awareness that there are limits. But she does not bow out entirely.</p><p></p><p>In my own case this is harder. I can have some peace in <em>out of sight out of mind.</em> I think this is more primitive than what she does. I need to put my son out of my mind. But I cannot do this for long.</p><p></p><p>It seems when my son is in my mind at all, I find it unbearable at least some of the time.</p><p></p><p>Today is his birthday. I sent a text. It feels very tragic to me. I could not put "happy birthday" because he would feel that to be mocking. And he has said to not contact him. Like my sister. Let him send a legal letter too that I need to never contact him again. What a disaster.</p><p></p><p>I have no advice except this: You deserve peace. You deserve safety and emotional safety. You deserve calm. You deserve to not be attacked.</p><p></p><p>Whatever you have to do to maintain that, you are entitled to do. Indeed. I think we are required to do it. In my faith we are required to have boundaries. It is part of what it is to be a real human being.</p><p></p><p>Not one of us can hold together the life of another person nor should we.</p><p></p><p>Life is choices. Bart can choose to act together. I am certain he does that in his job, with his neighbors, with his attorney and in the courthouse. He can choose to do so with you. He chooses not to. This necessitates a choice by you. Will you accept his mistreatment? Should you?</p><p></p><p>He can decide to change. Just as you can decide to resume contact, if and when you choose. It can be tomorrow if you want.</p><p></p><p>What I am saying is that this does not have to be a huge deal. Our children seem to not like boundaries. There is no life without boundaries. Bart needs to decide how he will act. You have every right to not accept his behavior.</p><p></p><p>As far as his health decisions, I know how hard that is. We have no control. (I do not even necessarily believe everything he says. For some reason he wants you to suffer. He wants you to feel helpless. He wants you to feel desperate and without control. In this way he gets all of the horribleness of his feelings into you. He gets you to feel them. And in this way he can feel better, and more in control.) Bart is now controlling you. It is a way for him to regulate his own personality, by making you feel powerless. And it is VERY NOT GOOD. But you do not have to accept it.</p><p></p><p>He is a middle aged man. He will go to the doctor. Or not. He will take his medication. Or not. He will find support. Or not. (So many parents lose their children in their lifespan. While it is not our preferred outcome, this can be a part of life. I do not want my child to die. Sometimes I believe it would kill me, should this happen. Five years after my mother died, I am still walking wounded. I fear the death of my child would kill me off. But the thing is, I have to learn to live with real life. Real life is beyond our control. I have the personal resources--potentially, at least--to deal with real life. Everybody has to. One way or another.)</p><p></p><p>But you DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT. His torture of you. (It is torture, even if he does not mean it.) It does not mean love has stopped, to not take it. It just means that you value yourself and will not let somebody, even a beloved child, take away yourself, your safe place, your integrity. Because this is what he unconsciously seeks. He got himself into this huge mess with his EX. Somehow this is what he has sought in life. To be constantly buffeted by this corrupt/emotionally toxic storm and to constantly choose to do battle that never ends. It sounds very much that this is a lifestyle. And if this is the case, it will not change, unless he begins to seek change. He may. But that will have nothing to do with what you do or say or are.</p><p></p><p>This negativity with the ex has gone on long enough to know that there has to be choices BY HIM, to perpetuate it. He is not an innocent victim here. Even if he casts himself as such. Somehow this is working for him. In how he views life.</p><p></p><p>But this does not mean you have to live this life with him. There are plenty of parents and children that see each other once a year, if that. They may talk once a month or once a week, if at all.</p><p></p><p>I used to think these families were "different" than me. I wanted closeness and I wanted warmth. I wanted the kind of relationship I had with my grandparents. With everything close in. I thought that distant families were cold families. (Well. My own family was a warm family and I could barely be in contact with them for most of my life. You see. I am only now learning to face a little bit of the truth.)</p><p></p><p>Well. There is a reality in my life that is inconsistent with what I want. I am a conscious human being (usually). I cannot have what I want. Because to have a close-in, warm, relationship with my son is to accept the reality that I will feel abused (even though that is not my son's intention.)</p><p></p><p>That is the reality. Just as you describe your reality.</p><p></p><p>I used to think (until last night) that it was my fault that I felt abused. That a stronger, better person would not feel abused by behavior such as my son's. That a stronger, better mother would not REACT. She would not be TRIGGERED. She would not feel RESPONSIBLE. But this week I saw that vulnerability is a superpower. (See below/RE Christine Blasey Ford.) That my vulnerability deserves respect. From me.</p><p></p><p>Well. I am thinking differently with the Christine Blasey Ford hearing. I am recognizing that each human being has a right to her feelings, and to be protected BY HERSELF FIRST, and then, by others. And that we have a right to demand that. We cannot make anybody respect our feelings or to care about them either. But we can begin from the position that WE MATTER and WE WILL TAKE A STAND. AND WE WILL PROTECT THAT STAND.</p><p></p><p>I do not think your situation requires any radical choice or behavior. Just back off for now. Back off. And let him be.</p><p></p><p>You have done something very important and very powerful. You have told yourself the truth.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes the best way we can deal with things is just tell the truth to ourselves. And from that a path can emerge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 740790, member: 18958"] This is so cruel. What he is saying is that there is no place for you to stand with him. If you say your truth, you are in trouble. If you do not, you are in trouble. And you are to blame either way. If you advocate for him, you stress him out and he will die. If you say nothing, you fail to protect him. You are truly in a lose-lose situation with him. Our children are very hard to detach from, as in, complete no contact. In my being on the board it seems it takes a truly life-death situation, to do so. As in we become deathly ill and to continue with the stress of these relationships will kill us. Even then, it is hard for us to do. I was reading yesterday I think about time outs. Which is what it seems you are doing right now. Maybe it was a post of Elsi. Where she pulls back when there is real abuse, and hovers in the background until the child demonstrates some self-control and awareness that there are limits. But she does not bow out entirely. In my own case this is harder. I can have some peace in [I]out of sight out of mind.[/I] I think this is more primitive than what she does. I need to put my son out of my mind. But I cannot do this for long. It seems when my son is in my mind at all, I find it unbearable at least some of the time. Today is his birthday. I sent a text. It feels very tragic to me. I could not put "happy birthday" because he would feel that to be mocking. And he has said to not contact him. Like my sister. Let him send a legal letter too that I need to never contact him again. What a disaster. I have no advice except this: You deserve peace. You deserve safety and emotional safety. You deserve calm. You deserve to not be attacked. Whatever you have to do to maintain that, you are entitled to do. Indeed. I think we are required to do it. In my faith we are required to have boundaries. It is part of what it is to be a real human being. Not one of us can hold together the life of another person nor should we. Life is choices. Bart can choose to act together. I am certain he does that in his job, with his neighbors, with his attorney and in the courthouse. He can choose to do so with you. He chooses not to. This necessitates a choice by you. Will you accept his mistreatment? Should you? He can decide to change. Just as you can decide to resume contact, if and when you choose. It can be tomorrow if you want. What I am saying is that this does not have to be a huge deal. Our children seem to not like boundaries. There is no life without boundaries. Bart needs to decide how he will act. You have every right to not accept his behavior. As far as his health decisions, I know how hard that is. We have no control. (I do not even necessarily believe everything he says. For some reason he wants you to suffer. He wants you to feel helpless. He wants you to feel desperate and without control. In this way he gets all of the horribleness of his feelings into you. He gets you to feel them. And in this way he can feel better, and more in control.) Bart is now controlling you. It is a way for him to regulate his own personality, by making you feel powerless. And it is VERY NOT GOOD. But you do not have to accept it. He is a middle aged man. He will go to the doctor. Or not. He will take his medication. Or not. He will find support. Or not. (So many parents lose their children in their lifespan. While it is not our preferred outcome, this can be a part of life. I do not want my child to die. Sometimes I believe it would kill me, should this happen. Five years after my mother died, I am still walking wounded. I fear the death of my child would kill me off. But the thing is, I have to learn to live with real life. Real life is beyond our control. I have the personal resources--potentially, at least--to deal with real life. Everybody has to. One way or another.) But you DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE IT. His torture of you. (It is torture, even if he does not mean it.) It does not mean love has stopped, to not take it. It just means that you value yourself and will not let somebody, even a beloved child, take away yourself, your safe place, your integrity. Because this is what he unconsciously seeks. He got himself into this huge mess with his EX. Somehow this is what he has sought in life. To be constantly buffeted by this corrupt/emotionally toxic storm and to constantly choose to do battle that never ends. It sounds very much that this is a lifestyle. And if this is the case, it will not change, unless he begins to seek change. He may. But that will have nothing to do with what you do or say or are. This negativity with the ex has gone on long enough to know that there has to be choices BY HIM, to perpetuate it. He is not an innocent victim here. Even if he casts himself as such. Somehow this is working for him. In how he views life. But this does not mean you have to live this life with him. There are plenty of parents and children that see each other once a year, if that. They may talk once a month or once a week, if at all. I used to think these families were "different" than me. I wanted closeness and I wanted warmth. I wanted the kind of relationship I had with my grandparents. With everything close in. I thought that distant families were cold families. (Well. My own family was a warm family and I could barely be in contact with them for most of my life. You see. I am only now learning to face a little bit of the truth.) Well. There is a reality in my life that is inconsistent with what I want. I am a conscious human being (usually). I cannot have what I want. Because to have a close-in, warm, relationship with my son is to accept the reality that I will feel abused (even though that is not my son's intention.) That is the reality. Just as you describe your reality. I used to think (until last night) that it was my fault that I felt abused. That a stronger, better person would not feel abused by behavior such as my son's. That a stronger, better mother would not REACT. She would not be TRIGGERED. She would not feel RESPONSIBLE. But this week I saw that vulnerability is a superpower. (See below/RE Christine Blasey Ford.) That my vulnerability deserves respect. From me. Well. I am thinking differently with the Christine Blasey Ford hearing. I am recognizing that each human being has a right to her feelings, and to be protected BY HERSELF FIRST, and then, by others. And that we have a right to demand that. We cannot make anybody respect our feelings or to care about them either. But we can begin from the position that WE MATTER and WE WILL TAKE A STAND. AND WE WILL PROTECT THAT STAND. I do not think your situation requires any radical choice or behavior. Just back off for now. Back off. And let him be. You have done something very important and very powerful. You have told yourself the truth. Sometimes the best way we can deal with things is just tell the truth to ourselves. And from that a path can emerge. [/QUOTE]
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