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<blockquote data-quote="mrsammler" data-source="post: 426457"><p>I can't speak to the twin issues knowledgably, so I won't try. But my reactions to the rest of your post is good news and bad news:</p><p></p><p>1) Good news: They didn't start to misfire until 16 or 17 years of age? That means that it's unlikely that there is a congenital inclination toward ODD/CD/ASPD, as it would've presented earlier: 14 is the usual age of really notable onset. So you're probably not dealing with the really stubborn, almost intractable issues that a personality disorder generates. </p><p></p><p>2) What you describe is much more likely eventuated by drug use (a near certainty, from what you've described) and peer influences. Have either or both of them fallen in with a bad kid/crowd? That was very likely the trigger. Knowing that, of course, is no solution once they're embedded in that peer/group relationship, but it's still useful to know that if it's the case.</p><p></p><p>3) I frankly would be very wary about sending any kid off to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) unless it has a really sterling reputation and "checks out" very positively via references from other parents. My difficult child family member went off to a very expensive Residential Treatment Center (RTC) out west and came back most of a year later just as bad, although he had learned to be more crafty about concealing it and presenting himself as "fixed." The Residential Treatment Center (RTC) he attended was, in hindsight and by his report, simply a corral for kids with ODD/CD/ASPD and it had the behaviorally and socially congestive and reinforcing effect that prisons have: put a bunch of bad characters in the same confined space and they will learn more from each other than they will from their very socially outnumbered "handlers," especially in the formative years when peer influence is hugely magnified compared to its effect in adult years. If your boys had "good" friends/peer groups before this recent downward spiral, and if those "good" friends/peer groups are still available to them (i.e., haven't walled them out due to recent misbehavior), you're probably better off keeping your boys at home and hiring a REALLY good adolescent psychologist to treat them with frequent therapy sessions. (I grant that this is costly--not sure what means/resources are available to you.) </p><p></p><p>But yes, to echo the posts of others here, it sure sounds like your boys' recent problems were triggered by drug use, which always coincides with (is usually a consequence of) having "fallen in with bad company." </p><p></p><p>Just my .02....</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mrsammler, post: 426457"] I can't speak to the twin issues knowledgably, so I won't try. But my reactions to the rest of your post is good news and bad news: 1) Good news: They didn't start to misfire until 16 or 17 years of age? That means that it's unlikely that there is a congenital inclination toward ODD/CD/ASPD, as it would've presented earlier: 14 is the usual age of really notable onset. So you're probably not dealing with the really stubborn, almost intractable issues that a personality disorder generates. 2) What you describe is much more likely eventuated by drug use (a near certainty, from what you've described) and peer influences. Have either or both of them fallen in with a bad kid/crowd? That was very likely the trigger. Knowing that, of course, is no solution once they're embedded in that peer/group relationship, but it's still useful to know that if it's the case. 3) I frankly would be very wary about sending any kid off to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) unless it has a really sterling reputation and "checks out" very positively via references from other parents. My difficult child family member went off to a very expensive Residential Treatment Center (RTC) out west and came back most of a year later just as bad, although he had learned to be more crafty about concealing it and presenting himself as "fixed." The Residential Treatment Center (RTC) he attended was, in hindsight and by his report, simply a corral for kids with ODD/CD/ASPD and it had the behaviorally and socially congestive and reinforcing effect that prisons have: put a bunch of bad characters in the same confined space and they will learn more from each other than they will from their very socially outnumbered "handlers," especially in the formative years when peer influence is hugely magnified compared to its effect in adult years. If your boys had "good" friends/peer groups before this recent downward spiral, and if those "good" friends/peer groups are still available to them (i.e., haven't walled them out due to recent misbehavior), you're probably better off keeping your boys at home and hiring a REALLY good adolescent psychologist to treat them with frequent therapy sessions. (I grant that this is costly--not sure what means/resources are available to you.) But yes, to echo the posts of others here, it sure sounds like your boys' recent problems were triggered by drug use, which always coincides with (is usually a consequence of) having "fallen in with bad company." Just my .02.... [/QUOTE]
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