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Family of Origin
When you take the place of the real abuser in your abusers life
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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 666984" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>This is interesting to me. What you are saying here Cedar, I think, is that there is a conversation going on here. A lock and key conversation. They are "the key." Like Daphne tried to do, each of our sisters does the same.</p><p></p><p>As an aside here I posted a new thread with Franz Fanon quotes I got from Goodreads. Some of them cover territory that we have already covered. Some of them point me in directions I want to go.</p><p></p><p>In our sisters' grandiosity they tell each of us what we should not do or be. Or not do or be. By each of the things they grasp and hoard, they indicate to us what we cannot have. Because it is theirs. So this is why I compulsively shop on the internet. Buying things I never wanted or needed or ever will need. Because I am trying to get something...blindly...even that which I do not want. Perhaps especially that which I do not want. As a punishment for wanting anything at all. I am punishing myself for wanting anything by buying what I do not need...sometimes I do not even open the packages. I am trying to fill the empty loneliness and want within me that feels I cannot ever be filled by anything good....How is it that this still persists??? And why???</p><p>And that is why wanting has to be be filled by meaningless "stuff" now. Because I am not allowing myself to fill my desires assertively, with sustenance, and visible out of the shadows. So, that is next. Our blog. A book. Several books. (I always thought that would be my destiny. When I was writing my dissertation, I loved it so much, the process, I would actually plan how many books I might have time to write in my life. 25 years later. Zero.) The new Big City. M. I love and respect him so much. He respects and loves me so much. There is confidence there, in one another.</p><p>I looked up Authoritarian Personality when I read this and the rest of your post. That was a concept developed in mid 20th century, after the calamity in Europe to explain the rise of Hitler. It is also used to explain the societal racism in Southern USA as well as in other places.</p><p></p><p>After I read a bit, I did not think it fit. Or maybe it does. You may be interested.</p><p>I cannot bear, almost, to remember it.</p><p></p><p>There was an element of torture there, and sadism. I did not want to say it. Ridicule. Wanting her/us to retreat in shame to a corner. Alone. To be revealed as lacking. To be unmasked. To dis-empower. It is not surprising she is with a sadistic and abusive man. This is sado-masochism. Daphne enjoys inflicting pain and humiliation on her victim. I believe my sister may have an element of this. I fear. I am so, so sorry for us. Daphne acted against each of us. To frighten us. To make us feel unsafe and watched. How horrible to live as she does.</p><p></p><p>And now I am thinking of my sister. The pregnant silence. I am having twins. The intent is the same. To retreat in shame to my corner. Not enough. Not right. Not worthy.</p><p>Because we are meant to by the oppressors. We are the missing signifiers that carry the shame. They insist on being the signifiers that carry the sentence. That carry the dominant meaning. But the thing is sometimes it is the missing signifier that has the power. That is why they have to kill us off. (I know this does not make sense. But it make sense to me. I will get there so that I can explain it better.)</p><p> And their fascination with us. Because as long as we live, they will be enslaved. Not us.</p><p> By them. Not outside of their sphere...which as demonstrated by Daphne...they no longer control.</p><p> Yes.</p><p>Yes.</p><p>There is something here about killing out a family line, that should be expunged. (While I never reproduced biologically, I did reproduce culturally...the culture of Copa...which is as different from that of my sister as can be....) There is the sense here not only that we should be silenced or marginalized or discredited or blanketed but to be killed off. Like Eugenics.</p><p>See Authoritarian Personality and see if it fits, Cedar.</p><p>Fanon uses the term "ghosts" to refer to the same thing. And claims that when the ghosts empower themselves they are unstoppable.</p><p>Sadists do. Daphne is punishing Serenity for leaving her. Because in her heart she knows she is nothing without her. She is missing a piece of herself, that it seems she will never find. She could, if she saw the brokenness in herself. As each of us has had to do.</p><p>Yes.</p><p>We have been working around it, but only now named it. Thank you, Daphne.</p><p>See Fanon Thread.</p><p>What I think it is is they covet a part of themselves that is tied to us. What I am trying to express with the missing signifier. Their sense of self, their power and efficacy was always contingent from the beginning on us. Our love. They are enraged that we left. They need us back to be complete. Even if they cannot accept it. They hate us not because they hate us.They hate us because we left...and they feel we left carrying a piece of them...that they need. They need us. We do not need them. They hate that. That is part of Daphne's rage.</p><p></p><p>This is a slavemaster/slave dynamic. I used to be fascinated by writings about slavery, from historians and sociologists. I could not tear myself away....yet could not much integrate it with the mainstream of my own studies. Now I know why. I will get some references.</p><p>'</p><p>Thank you, Cedar. Very thought provoking post.</p><p></p><p>COPA</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 666984, member: 18958"] This is interesting to me. What you are saying here Cedar, I think, is that there is a conversation going on here. A lock and key conversation. They are "the key." Like Daphne tried to do, each of our sisters does the same. As an aside here I posted a new thread with Franz Fanon quotes I got from Goodreads. Some of them cover territory that we have already covered. Some of them point me in directions I want to go. In our sisters' grandiosity they tell each of us what we should not do or be. Or not do or be. By each of the things they grasp and hoard, they indicate to us what we cannot have. Because it is theirs. So this is why I compulsively shop on the internet. Buying things I never wanted or needed or ever will need. Because I am trying to get something...blindly...even that which I do not want. Perhaps especially that which I do not want. As a punishment for wanting anything at all. I am punishing myself for wanting anything by buying what I do not need...sometimes I do not even open the packages. I am trying to fill the empty loneliness and want within me that feels I cannot ever be filled by anything good....How is it that this still persists??? And why??? And that is why wanting has to be be filled by meaningless "stuff" now. Because I am not allowing myself to fill my desires assertively, with sustenance, and visible out of the shadows. So, that is next. Our blog. A book. Several books. (I always thought that would be my destiny. When I was writing my dissertation, I loved it so much, the process, I would actually plan how many books I might have time to write in my life. 25 years later. Zero.) The new Big City. M. I love and respect him so much. He respects and loves me so much. There is confidence there, in one another. I looked up Authoritarian Personality when I read this and the rest of your post. That was a concept developed in mid 20th century, after the calamity in Europe to explain the rise of Hitler. It is also used to explain the societal racism in Southern USA as well as in other places. After I read a bit, I did not think it fit. Or maybe it does. You may be interested. I cannot bear, almost, to remember it. There was an element of torture there, and sadism. I did not want to say it. Ridicule. Wanting her/us to retreat in shame to a corner. Alone. To be revealed as lacking. To be unmasked. To dis-empower. It is not surprising she is with a sadistic and abusive man. This is sado-masochism. Daphne enjoys inflicting pain and humiliation on her victim. I believe my sister may have an element of this. I fear. I am so, so sorry for us. Daphne acted against each of us. To frighten us. To make us feel unsafe and watched. How horrible to live as she does. And now I am thinking of my sister. The pregnant silence. I am having twins. The intent is the same. To retreat in shame to my corner. Not enough. Not right. Not worthy. Because we are meant to by the oppressors. We are the missing signifiers that carry the shame. They insist on being the signifiers that carry the sentence. That carry the dominant meaning. But the thing is sometimes it is the missing signifier that has the power. That is why they have to kill us off. (I know this does not make sense. But it make sense to me. I will get there so that I can explain it better.) And their fascination with us. Because as long as we live, they will be enslaved. Not us. By them. Not outside of their sphere...which as demonstrated by Daphne...they no longer control. Yes. Yes. There is something here about killing out a family line, that should be expunged. (While I never reproduced biologically, I did reproduce culturally...the culture of Copa...which is as different from that of my sister as can be....) There is the sense here not only that we should be silenced or marginalized or discredited or blanketed but to be killed off. Like Eugenics. See Authoritarian Personality and see if it fits, Cedar. Fanon uses the term "ghosts" to refer to the same thing. And claims that when the ghosts empower themselves they are unstoppable. Sadists do. Daphne is punishing Serenity for leaving her. Because in her heart she knows she is nothing without her. She is missing a piece of herself, that it seems she will never find. She could, if she saw the brokenness in herself. As each of us has had to do. Yes. We have been working around it, but only now named it. Thank you, Daphne. See Fanon Thread. What I think it is is they covet a part of themselves that is tied to us. What I am trying to express with the missing signifier. Their sense of self, their power and efficacy was always contingent from the beginning on us. Our love. They are enraged that we left. They need us back to be complete. Even if they cannot accept it. They hate us not because they hate us.They hate us because we left...and they feel we left carrying a piece of them...that they need. They need us. We do not need them. They hate that. That is part of Daphne's rage. This is a slavemaster/slave dynamic. I used to be fascinated by writings about slavery, from historians and sociologists. I could not tear myself away....yet could not much integrate it with the mainstream of my own studies. Now I know why. I will get some references. ' Thank you, Cedar. Very thought provoking post. COPA [/QUOTE]
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