Do others feel this way with other children too?

[louise2350]

I wouldn't do it that way because I matter too and I know myself. No matter my loving intentions I would spent the entire night thinking about my middle daughters shun if this were me. Even the grands could not stop me from the pain..

This is a situation where you need to do what serves you best, not anyone else. I am sure there are other babysitters. We need to not feel bad for making decisions to spare ourselves hurt. We need to be able to do this without feeling guilty.

Blessings!!

So true

 

[Copabanana]

I'm sorry if I made you feel bad over my post.

You didn't make me feel bad. What you said had truth, and I was responding to that truth, which is a gift. Truth can hurt. But it liberates, too. I have gratitude for that.

 

[BusynMember1]

We need to take care of ourselves first in my opinion. If it makes us feel whole and good to jump into a situation like this and babysit, we absolutely should. No question. you

If we would not be able to forget the rejection of our middle daughter by babysitting the grands to benefit something that brings us great pain....we hurt ourselves and probably would not have fun with the grands if we forced it.

I think of it this way, as a shunned mother.

If Kay had shunned my son and not myself,would I ask my son, if it devestated him, to lend me his car to drive to a party at Kay's house that he was not allowed to attend?

I would never ever do this. Let alone lie and say I needed the car for something else.

Of course the shunned people in MY family are all four of us and my two other kids have no interest in interacting with Kay. But in all family systems there are at least certain members who do not get along. If we are shunned from another, and it hurts us a lot, do we really have to stand the hurt? Treat ourselves as if our pain didn't matter? Why? To what good?

Wise, you are so on the right track. I would love to paper my entire life in love. I wish I could be the person who loved so dearly and was so selfless that I could boldly step into my pain and act loving anyway, without any discomfort. I have met great people like this, who can do this with Grace. They better than me, as I can not do this yet. Maybe it will never happen for me. We all have our ceilings as to what we can handle.

I feel grateful not to be in this difficult situation, Louise. In your shoes, knowing myself, I would never ask my other girls to stick up for me to the shunning daughter, but I would be very hurt that they did not. I would wonder why they didn't if they loved me. I would have needed more therapy than I had. But in the end this question would never get asked. Some people might have to ask and confront. We are all so different.

I think it's great to get so much feedback. I embrace every poster's opinions on all these difficult situations

The best part about this forum is that just like Al Anon's slogan...."Take what you need and leave the rest" this is what we can do. That is what I hope we ALL do.

God bless us all!

 

[Blindsided]

One more thing - this estranged daughter was never slighted by me or my ex while she was growing up. When she states that I gave the two others more attention and was nicer to them than I was to her, it's her problem and not a word is true. This is just this daughter's personality speaking. No matter who her parents were she'd always complain, complain and think of herself as the "ignored" one. A few people here have said that their parents left them out and preferred their siblings over them. I don't know the whole story but in my case, this is not true. Ever since this child was a youngster she'd always look for ways that she thought were unfair to her versus her siblings. Her siblings aren't that way and have better things to do than compare every little thing to see if they're being treated fairly. Some people are just like that - looking for sympathy in stating that they aren't treated as well as their other siblings. This gets to me as I came from a very large family. I never had the time and it wasn't in me to compare to see how this one and that one were treated. My parents did an amazing job and did make mistakes like every parent. They loved all of us and I couldn't for a minute be bothered comparing myself to my siblings to see where I was shortchanged.

Louise, It is not you. Our CD adult children make up stories as part of their manipulation, which is a result of something within them that only they can address. Getting to a place of acceptance and some semblance of peace is a process, like grieving. For me, it has come in stages over the last 20 years, my daughter is 41. I hate that our children are able to put us in defense mode, because that means we aren't setting healthy boundaries for ourselves. Why do we think we should take responsibility for things or actions that are simply not true? For me, that part has gotten better as I have learned to let go. Now I work hard to focus only on the facts and check my emotions. Outsiders probably think I have become hard. Nothing could be further from the truth, but that is something only we would know. I have definitely done well with letting that one go. I really don't care what they think. I am doing what I need to do for myself, so I can be there for those who want me in their life. My son has said to me that he would like our time together to be just about us. I have books in my signature line that I have found helpful and now I have this group. No judgement, no fear of sharing, and lifting each other up.

In healing

 

[Copabanana]

If we are shunned from another, and it hurts us a lot, do we really have to stand the hurt? Treat ourselves as if our pain didn't matter?

This is what I am not understanding.

I am not condoning here, the triangulation in your family; that there is an odd man out, which seems to be you at least right now. There are families like this that always have somebody designated as "out," and it shifts so nobody is secure that they won't be left out of the circle.

So. Your middle daughter is saying that she feels as if she felt rejected; that she felt she received less than did her sisters. What she is saying here is that she feels like she was the "odd man out."

And now what she is doing is the same thing, this time, to you. And the other kids are collaborating with her, to do this.

Now where I am getting to with this, is here: I wish I had lived a life where I was connected to my mother, in the same way as was my sister. And I wish I had a sister who wanted me in her life. I fault myself for both of these lacks. Had I turned the cheek, it's possible that I could have overcome my heartache (and anger, perhaps) and I would have had a different life.

So. It seems to me on this thread there may be a double standard. We seem to be holding our own pain as more important, that we felt shunned as more serious. And we seem to be discounting the grievance of the children, as less than. As something that is untrue. How is it that our pain is true, and theirs not?

I will retire from this thread because after this I don't feel I have much to say. But I don't think there are bad guys here. Not anymore. I know my sister feels I am a bad guy and has a long list as to why. Just as I have a long list about her. I think the lists are just cover for pain. Because at the end of the day, that's really all there is pain. And pain is better off felt. Once that bubble bursts, there can only be grace.

 

[BusynMember1]

We are boldly sharing what we know of our lives with our very troubled, sad kids (with tears in our eyes).

Now, regardless of what Kay thinks or says, I know that Kay got more attention than my other two kids times three. The other kids know it too but they forgive us. A blessing. They could have been bitter and angry over it but they are not. Other kids WOULD have been.

Yet it is Kay as who feels as if she is not one of us and that she is a misfit. And that WE think so too. This is probably because she is adopted and very different in personality from the rest of us. Those are facts that can not be changed.

Nor is the fact that we spent most of our time trying to build her up and help her feel loved to the detriment of the other kids.

Feelings aren't facts. This is a big thing I learned in therapy and I believe it. Feelings are emotions.

We proudly embraced Kay as our first and very own beautiful child. We loved her to the moon. If she felt as if we didn't, then her feelings are and were never the facts.

I can't speak for anyone else and hurt for anyone who felt left out of his/her family. But many insecure people feel lesser than, when in fact their parents never really saw them as lesser.

We see this on the forum...I believe these parents all love their kids to the moon and always did. How their kids feel may not be how things are or were. I believe when a parent says her child twists reality. I see it with my own child. Feelings are not facts. Facts are facts.

I am tired again. Thinking of Kay tires me out and saddens me.

Peace and blessings to all.

 

[louise2350]

Copa: Don't be hard on yourself. That's the way you felt at the time when you were living at home and you are entitled to your feelings. I was just saying that ever since my middle daughter was young she would always compare herself to her two sisters feeling she was always given the short end of the stick, whereas the other two would never do that . She even claims during an argument that I wasn't her mother. I'd just ignore her but relayed what she'd say to my husband and he couldn't stop laughing. These are the extremes she would go to. Anyway, I didn't mean to make you feel bad with what I said - I guess I wasn't in your shoes and with 7 other siblings in my family, my parents couldn't afford much and didn't hold on "spoiling" back in the old days, so I was taken by surprise when my middle would always complain that she wasn't given as much attention,etc. as her sisters. Since my siblings and I never felt tha,t it was hard for me to hear my middle estranged daughter always saying that. Just be easy on yourself and I'm sorry if I made you feel bad over my post. I did speak to my youngest over the babysitting - she understands and doesn't really expect me to babysit while she goes to a party at the other daughter's house. So, things have been smoothed out there.

 

[louise2350]

Yes, it takes a lot out of one to rehash the what ifs, the reasons behind this and that, so I'll just say like Busy, my middle daughter was given much more attention than the other two. As I mentioned before, the other two would ask me at times why all of my focus was on the middle child. Now, these other two aren't the type to hold grudges so they do see this middle daughter even though for unknown reasons she doesn't have anything to do with me. But, that's their decision. Like someone said here, they'd wonder too why the two others aren't sticking up for me and saying anything to the disconnected daughter. You can't just brush that aside in your mind - it's only natural to wonder why. But, God has guided me on not saying anything to the other two over this and I'm thankful I didn't. I know the two others love me and are in a difficult situation. They know the middle daughter has troubles and always has. So, with that, I will just try to let everything go, but at times it's hard. My disconnected daughter went and told my niece online that she isn't in my life anymore. When my niece relayed this to me over the phone, I broke down and cried. I couldn't believe my daughter would actually reveal that to someone she's only seen a few times in her life . My niece didn't ask her why but just said something like she knows mothers and daughters have fights now and then, etc. So, that conversation with my niece opened me up again for hurt. I just told my niece a little about it and then told her I really didn't want to talk about it. I do have a certain amount of peace in my life and I do love seeing my other grandchildren and my other two daughters. I'm not dwelling so much on all of this anymore.

 

[BusynMember1]

You are doing all you can under the circumstances. Your daughter has always been a problem, like Kay and no amount of love and attention would have been enough. Like Kay.

Enjoy your other two kids and grands. I do that now. Kay no longer is the elephant in the room. I will never put her first again. My other loved ones want me in their lives. I in no way want anyone in my life who is going to hurt me. I did that long enough. It serves NOBODY, our kid included. They learn how to abuse. That is all they gain

in my opinion you are behaving as I would under the same circumstances. See Difficult Sister if you must, but leave me out of it because it hurts. Period if that.is what is best for you, do it. You don't need to know about her. You don't need to be told if the others are with her.

I would probably also tell others not to inform me of anything she says or does and would not check her social media. Try to move on. It's easier to do if you don't pour salt into your own wound.

Have a good day and see maybe how many.podirive things you can do for you. Nobody else, even beloved children, should control our happiness. We are the ones to control it. Or not. But if somebody else controls us, we are their slave.

Been that slave. Have the tee shirt. Much more relaxed and happy now.

Blessings!

 

[louise2350]

Thanks, Busy!

 

[louise2350]

This is what I am not understanding.

I am not condoning here, the triangulation in your family; that there is an odd man out, which seems to be you at least right now. There are families like this that always have somebody designated as "out," and it shifts so nobody is secure that they won't be left out of the circle.

So. Your middle daughter is saying that she feels as if she felt rejected; that she felt she received less than did her sisters. What she is saying here is that she feels like she was the "odd man out."

And now what she is doing is the same thing, this time, to you. And the other kids are collaborating with her, to do this.

Now where I am getting to with this, is here: I wish I had lived a life where I was connected to my mother, in the same way as was my sister. And I wish I had a sister who wanted me in her life. I fault myself for both of these lacks. Had I turned the cheek, it's possible that I could have overcome my heartache (and anger, perhaps) and I would have had a different life.

So. It seems to me on this thread there may be a double standard. We seem to be holding our own pain as more important, that we felt shunned as more serious. And we seem to be discounting the grievance of the children, as less than. As something that is untrue. How is it that our pain is true, and theirs not?

I will retire from this thread because after this I don't feel I have much to say. But I don't think there are bad guys here. Not anymore. I know my sister feels I am a bad guy and has a long list as to why. Just as I have a long list about her. I think the lists are just cover for pain. Because at the end of the day, that's really all there is pain. And pain is better off felt. Once that bubble bursts, there can only be grace.

 

[louise2350]

No, I'm not saying the disconnected is saying this now. She isn't saying anything to me now and hasn't in over four years. When I say she felt as a child that she wasn't given enough attention, that is in the past not now. So, I don't really know why she isn't speaking to me. Don't want to go over what started all of this - it doesn't matter - I'm gaining peace and want to stay that way. She has to live with herself over all of this.

 

[louise2350]

This is what I am not understanding.

I am not condoning here, the triangulation in your family; that there is an odd man out, which seems to be you at least right now. There are families like this that always have somebody designated as "out," and it shifts so nobody is secure that they won't be left out of the circle.

So. Your middle daughter is saying that she feels as if she felt rejected; that she felt she received less than did her sisters. What she is saying here is that she feels like she was the "odd man out."

And now what she is doing is the same thing, this time, to you. And the other kids are collaborating with her, to do this.

Now where I am getting to with this, is here: I wish I had lived a life where I was connected to my mother, in the same way as was my sister. And I wish I had a sister who wanted me in her life. I fault myself for both of these lacks. Had I turned the cheek, it's possible that I could have overcome my heartache (and anger, perhaps) and I would have had a different life.

So. It seems to me on this thread there may be a double standard. We seem to be holding our own pain as more important, that we felt shunned as more serious. And we seem to be discounting the grievance of the children, as less than. As something that is untrue. How is it that our pain is true, and theirs not?

I will retire from this thread because after this I don't feel I have much to say. But I don't think there are bad guys here. Not anymore. I know my sister feels I am a bad guy and has a long list as to why. Just as I have a long list about her. I think the lists are just cover for pain. Because at the end of the day, that's really all there is pain. And pain is better off felt. Once that bubble bursts, there can only be grace.

My other kids aren't collaborating with this estranged daughter. I don't know how to respond to this post of yours

This is what I am not understanding.

I am not condoning here, the triangulation in your family; that there is an odd man out, which seems to be you at least right now. There are families like this that always have somebody designated as "out," and it shifts so nobody is secure that they won't be left out of the circle.

So. Your middle daughter is saying that she feels as if she felt rejected; that she felt she received less than did her sisters. What she is saying here is that she feels like she was the "odd man out."

And now what she is doing is the same thing, this time, to you. And the other kids are collaborating with her, to do this.

Now where I am getting to with this, is here: I wish I had lived a life where I was connected to my mother, in the same way as was my sister. And I wish I had a sister who wanted me in her life. I fault myself for both of these lacks. Had I turned the cheek, it's possible that I could have overcome my heartache (and anger, perhaps) and I would have had a different life.

So. It seems to me on this thread there may be a double standard. We seem to be holding our own pain as more important, that we felt shunned as more serious. And we seem to be discounting the grievance of the children, as less than. As something that is untrue. How is it that our pain is true, and theirs not?

I will retire from this thread because after this I don't feel I have much to say. But I don't think there are bad guys here. Not anymore. I know my sister feels I am a bad guy and has a long list as to why. Just as I have a long list about her. I think the lists are just cover for pain. Because at the end of the day, that's really all there is pain. And pain is better off felt. Once that bubble bursts, there can only be grace.

 

[louise2350]

Copa: I don't think you understand the full story. I'm not going to go over it. My two other daughters are not collaborating with this estranged child and I am not ignoring what she claimed when she was a child of not getting enough attention. I am not "holding my own pain" as more important. Did I shun this daughter ever?? No. Get the facts straight, please.

 

[Copabanana]

My other kids aren't collaborating with this estranged daughter. I don't know how to respond to this post of yours

I'm sorry I misunderstood.

This is a public forum. When I write on this thread, and any other thread, I respond not only to you but to anybody else who may be reading along or who may read in years to come. I also write for reasons that are personal to me, for my own clarity and betterment as a person.

What we write here we no longer own. It belongs to all of us.

That said, you convey to me that I am contributing to distress or frustration on your part. I see these as your options: you can either not read my posts, if I choose to write here, or continue to criticize me. But if I didn't believe that my words could benefit somebody I would not write them.

. Get the facts straight, please.

My "facts" as you call them not only pertain to your specific life, but my interpretation of what you are saying. I have an understanding of family dynamics, and life, which is uniquely my own. Just as do you.

If you find my posts to be out of line please feel free to report me to a moderator, which you can do by pushing a button which is right below each post. Or you can write to the administrator, Runaway Bunny, by sending a private message via inbox to the above right. They will give me feedback so that my posts remain appropriate.

With that understanding, I write this: When adult children go behind their parent's back to triangulate with their sibling who is rejecting/shunning a parent---not only concealing said visit, but lying to that parent, to utilize said parent as a babysitter, I do believe this is collaboration. That child would be engaging in an affirmative act, that furthers the shunning of their parent. This of course, is only my understanding. It is neither right nor wrong, it's my way of thinking.

Maybe I am mis-remembering the facts of this story, and these events belong to another family. But this family would be a good example of the point I wanted to make.

All of us do not have to understand things in exactly the same way. At least, in my world this is the case.

Posting here on this forum can be a powerful means to understand oneself, should one have that desire. Certainly, the support and validation and advice that one receives can be powerful. But the ability to write down and to self-reflect, in the form of an anonymous, public journal, can to be quite useful. Especially within a supportive and sensitive community such as this.

 

[BusynMember1]

Louise.....I have the same exact dynamic going on.in my house that you do except that my estranged daughter has been so horrible to the other kids that they want nothing to do with her. I am sure that, just like Kay, you didn't do anything wrong to your middle daughter. Some people are just victims in their own heads. Most kids on this forum were treated very well yet cry victim.

You and I have a few kids and one only is a problem. Not everyone has this going on. I get that your kids are trying to get along with both of you, not estranging you. And I get that the middle daughter is looking to blame her problems on you.

I don't think this has anything to do with what we did or didn't do. I think this about our kids and the mess in their heads that only therapy will fix. But of course they won't so they remain a mess. I won't talk to Kay about her grievances any more. This is for a therapist to handle and sort out. We can't solve them.

I think your youngest was trying not to hurt you by not telling you why she needed a sitter. It was selfish too. A free sitter. A white lie. Not evil. I can't imagine this as worth making a mountain out of.

I would never make this bigger than it is.ni see it as no big deal. I look for peace, not trouble. Our nice kids are human and like us they are not perfect.

Hugs.

 

[louise2350]

Louise.....I have the same exact dynamic going on.in my house that you do except that my estranged daughter has been so horrible to the other kids that they want nothing to do with her. I am sure that, just like Kay, you didn't do anything wrong to your middle daughter. Some people are just victims in their own heads. Most kids on this forum were treated very well yet cry victim.

You and I have a few kids and one only is a problem. Not everyone has this going on. I get that your kids are trying to get along with both of you, not estranging you. And I get that the middle daughter is looking to blame her problems on you.

I don't think this has anything to do with what we did or didn't do. I think this about our kids and the mess in their heads that only therapy will fix. But of course they won't so they remain a mess. I won't talk to Kay about her grievances any more. This is for a therapist to handle and sort out. We can't solve them.

Hugs.

You are doing all you can under the circumstances. Your daughter has always been a problem, like Kay and no amount of love and attention would have been enough. Like Kay.

Enjoy your other two kids and grands. I do that now. Kay no longer is the elephant in the room. I will never put her first again. My other loved ones want me in their lives. I in no way want anyone in my life who is going to hurt me. I did that long enough. It serves NOBODY, our kid included. They learn how to abuse. That is all they gain

in my opinion you are behaving as I would under the same circumstances. See Difficult Sister if you must, but leave me out of it because it hurts. Period if that.is what is best for you, do it. You don't need to know about her. You don't need to be told if the others are with her.

I would probably also tell others not to inform me of anything she says or does and would not check her social media. Try to move on. It's easier to do if you don't pour salt into your own wound.

Have a good day and see maybe how many.podirive things you can do for you. Nobody else, even beloved children, should control our happiness. We are the ones to control it. Or not. But if somebody else controls us, we are their slave.

Been that slave. Have the tee shirt. Much more relaxed and happy now.

Blessings!

 

[louise2350]

Thank you, Busy.

 

[ksm]

People are just wired differently. I did basically the same thing with my son, and then the two grands we adopted. My son feels loved, that we did what we could to help him be successful. He knows he made some poor choices and had consequences, but we were still supportive of him, even though he knows we didn't support all his choices. He wishes he would have done some things differently.

The grands are now 19 and 21. The 21 yo doesn't feel that we were supportive and loving. It's like she wants us to agree and praise every thing she decides to do. She got tattoos, which she knows are not what we would prefer. We never said anything negative about the tattoos, but we didn't gush over them either. Same with nose ring. If she asked us about them, or showed them off, we would just say, if you like them, that's all that is important.

But she just wants more, and I guess it feels like we didn't tell her she was pretty or beautiful often enough. We did as a young child, but in grade school she got teased as she always wanted to play princess. We started complimenting her on doing well in schood, being kind or being helpful.

It's hard, I want her to know she's pretty, but how in the long run, looks is just the icing on the cake. It's more important to be strong, courageous, forgiving, happy... But she is rude to us and I've heard that she is also that way to her friends.

Anything we suggest (mainly me!) she interprets with her own filter. She needed black pants for work, but she bought $4.99 cheap leggings from Walmart. They were very thin across her backside, and you could even get a hint of what color her panties were. I tried to tell her to buy better quality, heavier ones, but she just heard me calling her fat.

Now she has told us she is "done with us" as we hired a house sitter for our 17 day volunteer trip working for Habitat for Humanity. She's mad as we didn't give her a key for 24/7 access to our home. But she is so scattered we didn't want her there. When she was living with us, she never took out trash, rinsed off dishes and put in dishwasher, or gave pets food and fresh water. Plus she would take off and not come home for several days.

Oh well, maybe things will be better when she is older. She isn't close to her half sister that we also adopted, or her two older half brothers. Each child has a different bio dad, but biomom claims she doesn't know who the bio dad us. My son was there halfway thru the pregnancy and claims her as his daughter.

It's sad. I see her hurting, but she pushes me away. Ksm

 

[JayPee]

Posting here on this forum can be a powerful means to understand oneself, should one have that desire. Certainly, the support and validation and advice that one receives can be powerful. But the ability to write down and to self-reflect, in the form of an anonymous, public journal, can to be quite useful. Especially within a supportive and sensitive community such as this.

Copa,

I so agree with what you've stated above. As we reply and converse with one another we are allowed to "speak out loud" the thoughts and concerns we've been holding on to. It's similar to walking into an Al anon group and sharing your worries, concerns, fears and anxieties about today, tomorrow and the future. We know, no one holds the one magic formula to our "recovery" from whatever issue ails us but it's the courage, strength and wisdom we collectively share to maybe enable someone to see their situation as not so hopeless. As I've said before for me just being able to share and not feel so isolated in my issues and concerns has some healing power to it. As we say again in Al anon, "take what you like and leave the rest". I think the same holds true on this forum.