Do others feel this way with other children too?

[BusynMember1]

I totally agree.

But we can't presume what others think or what drives other people when we write here. That in my opinion is unfair and mind reading, a flaw listed in CBT as a thinking error.

I do not hold my pain. My childhood was not perfect but it was not painful and I do not feel the need to listen to Kay's abuse anymore or her falsehoods. She had her chances.

I don't think anyone should tell me I should listen to her anymore. I won't get angry if somebody does say I should. I will leave it here as it doesn't serve myself or Kay.

I remember that my story only applies to me. Just me. We are all the same in this.

And if sometimes I can sound harsh, that's my way of expressing myself. And so I shall. If somebody spoke to me in real life, the person would find me soft spoken and gentle no matter what I said. And full of the compassion I have inside of me.

We do not get to see each other, our expressions, or hear tones of voices. We do not see the tears shed as we type. We would feel softer if we did.

I am not here to judge others or to put my personal pain on anyone else. I am here for support. I know nothing of the path of another.

I do believe we all need to "take what we need and leave the rest." I only spoke about Crayola, and I won't again, because that post had nothing to do with a difficult child, just religious beliefs. But I can and will hold my tongue from now on. I should have then. My bad.

Blessings to all.

 

[Copabanana]

"take what you like and leave the rest".

Good morning JP. When I began here on this forum, and for a long time after, I had a problem with this concept, leaving the rest.

I felt that it gave cover for some posters to write whatever they wanted, a lot of it hurtful and judgmental and sometimes thoughtless, and not take responsibility to do better.

But the reality is that I did not take responsibility for my own lack of adequate boundaries, and I did not see that I was lacking something critical which was the ability to let things be. Is this detachment?

That all kinds of strands of thought, feelings, ways of being, attitudes existed simultaneously and they did not have to be responded to, molded, rejected, or even named. They could just be there. Because they always were. That I did not have to take them in like a sponge. I did not have to make them right or wrong. I did not have to make them about me.

I did not have to take responsibility. To fix anything. To straighten anything else. And I did not have to defend myself.

The underlying dynamic at work here was: It was not my fault. That at the extreme somebody could be a bully or out of control, and I was not responsible to take the fire, or to stop them, or to pick up the slack.

And that I was not automatically the target if there was ill will, or blaming. That I had the ability to let it be, too. Unless I chose to be, I was not a target. I was not the guilty party. Nobody here really knew me. I didn't have to raise my hand.

But it is still very hard. Because what shows up here if we stay long enough is us. And other people show up too.

So. Now I see this biproduct of the forum as one of the greatest gifts. Because what can show up is the space between the words. The feelings and weak parts that I didn't necessarily want to speak, write, see or experience. And I think this is so for many of us here.

As I write this I feel shame and fear, because I expose myself to mocking, derision, impatience, and even attack, by self-exposure. I see this often online. When women especially (authors, bloggers, etc.) are ridiculed for self-disclosure. And I see it in the me too movement. What these people have in common is that they wanted something greatly * even to be, to have a voice, and they were exposed to hurt.

I want to be somebody who can be open. And yet I fear very much what can happen. That's why take what you want and leave the rest has been so hard for me. Because I (still) am operating as if I do not have the resources or power to stop somebody from hurting me, if they want to.

Yesterday I the title of an article in one of the papers caught my eye about Rose McGowan and the me too movement. I didn't read it. But it was something like, I don't care. I'm going to speak my truth. No matter what happens. I was afraid to read it. This amalgam of courage and vulnerability. There was shame.

So this is where they would be growth. Just like here on this thread.

There is another thread going on now that has an unintended discussion about religion and spirituality--and the question of what is appropriate and acceptable. And some of us came to the belief that the best course was openness. That the greater risk was bullying. The need to have one voice, only one narrative.

And when I thought about it, that was why I must have so much trouble with "take what you like." Not because I can't tolerate others having their thoughts and beliefs, but that I had trouble holding onto myself, in the face of criticism or opposition or even a very strong and certain voice.

How does one hold onto their self? What does that mean? I am taking a short mini-course and the instructor spoke about how in mystical thought, there is the principle that every one of us is born with one compelling purpose, something to work out for our soul. She put it this way:

What is our soul requiring of us before we die?

To discover who we are and become that person. To become who I was meant to become. To discover who I am and become that person, Is how she put it. She calls this a sacred purpose.

We come here to this forum to work out our kids. And we stay here to work out ourselves.

It's not so easy for me to think about these things. But I think I've come closer in this post. I think for me, it has something to do with self-expression, openness to myself others and being safe. Thank you.

I want to thank you very much for this opportunity to think this through on this thread.

PS Blindsided has a quote in her signature I want to acknowledge. “Putting a voice to your soul helps you to let go of the negative energy of fear and regret."
― Shannon L. Alder, Author

 

[JayPee]

I feel like for myself, I come to this forum with my own scars, hurts, pains and insecurities. Let's face it most of us are here because we have been wounded and may possibly still be. For me, my heart has been wounded by my sons inability to thrive, function and to grab on to life because of their issues. I'm vulnerable from the hurt and sorrow I sustained over a thirty year marriage taken away by alcoholism. When we post, we lay our hearts open to possibly being hurt because unfortunately, just like texting, we don't hear the intonation in the persons voice, or see the compassion in their eyes or know the deep hurt that is in their hearts that may be weighing heavy on them that particular day they respond.

We give our encouragement and support from wounded, vulnerable and first hand experiences. It's very raw but because of that same very reason it is so powerful and can be very healing.

It can be scary to be vulnerable, but I think it's worth the risk. There is way more good to be gained than bad as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Chasejazz]

I am just curious to know if any other members have this happen in their families with this disconnected adult.

My middle child is the one who disconnected four years ago over something minor.This middle adult is the type to start doing the latest if she's read about it by eliminating me from her life. There was never any abuse or neglect. This adult child was the type that always thought the other two children got more attention, love and just everything more than her. None of this is true. I even enrolled this child in a private school costing me a lot and didn't allow the other child to go to a private school which she indicated to me that she wanted to upon entering high school.

Since the disconnect when the disconnected adult has some parties for her child my two other children and their families are invited but not me. The two other grown children don't want to hurt my feelings so don't really talk about it to me but they have slipped and told me a few times about these events and then apologized if they hurt me.. I sometimes wish they'd speak to this disconnected adult over what its done to me by her not speaking to me anymore.. It hurts me that these two others don't say anything to this disconnected adult child. I'm mixed up over this because I don't want them to be alienated from this daughter which I wouldn't put it past her to do if these two other children speak to her and tell her how hurtful she is being and how wrong her behavior is. I would like to know if anyone else is in this predicament. I don't know if the disconnected adult has said something to one of my other grown children as to why she has stopped having me in her life. I think they wouldn't tell me as they don't want to get involved or hurt me further, which I understand .

Any input would be appreciated. Sometimes I feel that I don't have any right to feel this way regarding my two other adult children to defend me or speak up for me to this disconnected adult and am wondering if others are or have been through this. I haven's said anything to the other two as I don't want to make them feel guilty over this but it's always in my head.

Hello, and welcome Louise. I am sorry you had to find this site, but glad that you made it here where you are safe to tell your story and express your feelings. That being said, I'll say first off that your feelings are all valid. I too have a daughter (who's also my middle child), who one day out of the blue disconnected with me. That was over 6 years ago. I was left with a sadness in the deepest recesses of my being that churned inside of me day in and day out. It took hold and no matter what, would not let go.
All these years later, I've managed to put it in a compartment in my brain that I try to not think about, but sometimes, (like coming across your post, or having her creep into my dreams) I'm forced to look at it and re-examine it once again.

Like you, I have no idea why my daughter broke away from the family. Like you, she'd accused me at times of caring about her brothers more than I ever cared about her. She said she wished she had never been born. That she thought she was adopted. Not true. Like you, my daughter keeps contact with her brothers, but it is secreted from me and that is very hurtful. When she married about 5 years ago, she sent wedding invitations to her brothers, but excluded me from the wedding. That was when I truly realized that the mother/daughter relationship had ended. Last I heard, she lists her best friend from childhood's family as her own on Facebook. Mother, Father, sisters and brothers....she has essentially created a new alternate existence for herself.
This in itself is a deep subject that I can't figure out, so I'll just leave it alone.
You know, I see so many articles on the internet these days of adult kids, in particular, disowning their families.
It's like a fad, A cult. Something.
There's a convergence in this new millennium population, wherein the act like people and things are so disposable. Many have no true connection to any one or any thing.
I really do think that has something to do with it.
If the practice of cutting off your parents is so widely accepted (and I never heard of it in my day) then these kids feel absolutely no guilt about shutting out their parents without explanation. I have also read about this so-called Toxic Family Syndrome, brought on by new-wave psychologists, that encourage adult children to get rid of their biological families because of "toxic" child-rearing practices. The lists of what constitutes "toxic" is long and tedious, and are some down right stupid in my humble opinion, so I won't bore you with them.
As far as my daughter is concerned, I have finally just let go of her. She was of me but not a true part of me and now she'll make the rest of her journey as she has chosen. (I might add that she is my spitting image...eyes, hair, face, etc so, so much for getting away from me when mirrors are around!).
I do feel your pain. It's very true and deep. It's sadness, anger, betrayal, mistrust. There's a very finite line in your heart when you feel you've lost the confidence of your children, and of other family members to boot.
I might add that subsequently, my youngest son got married a few months ago and invited his dad, but not me. Definitely a kick in the shins.
Smh.
Like the family you once loved and trusted...the family that you nurtured and depended on just decided to up and move camp and you get left behind. Not a good feeling. I know.
If you're worried that people are judging you, my guess is some are, some aren't. If you're wondering if people know more than they're letting on, my guess is some are, some aren't and some don't care.
More people than you realise are in the same boat that you and I are in. They have teenage or adult children who have cut bait with no excuse, or have lied to others about their relationship with their parents/family.
Sorry to say that in the end there's not a lot you can do about any of it.
You can let time heal you.
Get involved in something outside yourself. Anything.
Eat good foods. Develop good sleep hygiene. Join a gym. Take up a craft. MeetUp.com has a gazillion things you can get involved in. It might help to take down old family photos for awhile. Stash 'em but don't trash 'em.
If you can afford it, get a therapist.
Look into a 12 step help group. Whatever will work best for you.
I like to limit my personal information on a 'need to know' basis. I've found that over the years, most people don't 'need to know'.
This is a lonely place you are in.
I've been there.
Oh, and last but not least I would NOT under any circumstances, babysit, house sit, dog sit or cat sit for any family member who felt comfortable with me being rejected from the family circle. And I don't.
Let me be clear. I would never EVER ask my kids or relatives to "take sides" for me.
I have a side already, and I'm on it!
I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was a great Mom...to all my kids, equally. There is always going to be that "you loved my brother or sister more" going on. It's the oldest trick in the book. I will not and do not buy it. Nope nope nope.
Anyways, sorry to drone on.
This subject, as I said, hit a nerve.
I have no surefire answers for our dilema, only to say that I know you never would have chosen things to end up this way.
Time to take care of you now.
Hugs.

Never explain - your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard

 

[BusynMember1]

I love your post, chasejazz.

I feel it is one of the wisest, truest, and most honest posts I have read here. It resonates with me. And it's so true that many millennials divorce their families and feel no guilt doing it.

And you bet the new hip therapists are pushing estrangement with "toxic" parents, whatever that means. It was never this way in my day. Kids didn't talk to parents like these kids do. We didn't use our parents only for money. We didn't cruelly leave our parents and be proud of shedding them.

It's new and very common. Even encouraged.

I am so sorry for your pain. You posted very brave words, words some people, like me, don't want to admit. That some kids don't love their parents. That many walk away with no regrets these days. That now is NOT the way it used to be. My daughter misses our money, but not us. There is no love in her heart, certainly not for us.

Worse, we are not odd in this. I wish we were.

Parents always had problems with their kids, but it usually did not end up in estrangement, abuse of the parents and encouragement to stay estranged. Now more than ever we need to live our own lives.

I feel that, with distance and this new lax attitude toward family, it is much harder to put our family first in our lives. And we should not.

I agree that we don't owe anybody the story of our life. I hear many stories but share very little.

God bless.

 

[Chasejazz]

I love your post, chasejazz.

I feel it is one of the wisest, truest, and most honest posts I have read here. It resonates with me. And it's so true that many millennials divorce their families and feel no guilt doing it.

And you bet the new hip therapists are pushing estrangement with "toxic" parents, whatever that means. It was never this way in my day. Kids didn't talk to parents like these kids do. We didn't use our parents only for money. We didn't cruelly leave our parents and be proud of shedding them.

It's new and very common. Even encouraged.

I am so sorry for your pain. You posted very brave words, words some people, like me, don't want to admit. That some kids don't love their parents. That many walk away with no regrets these days. That now is NOT the way it used to be. My daughter misses our money, but not us. There is no love in her heart, certainly not for us.

Worse, we are not odd in this. I wish we were.

Parents always had problems with their kids, but it usually did not end up in estrangement, abuse of the parents and encouragement to stay estranged. Now more than ever we need to live our own lives.

I feel that, with distance and this new lax attitude toward family, it is much harder to put our family first in our lives. And we should not.

I agree that we don't owe anybody the story of our life. I hear many stories but share very little.

God bless.

Thanks Busy.
People like you and I have walked this long and winding road for awhile now [Beatles reference]. It seems like the journey will never end. Maybe we stay the course, not for ourselves, but for the friends we meet along the way.
We both instinctively know that what's happened in our lives, to us and to our families, is not normal by any stretch of the imagination.
The stories we share in here are so brutal and tragic we're anonymous even to each other.
That in itself defines the depth of our pain.
We miss our lost children and the people they will never be. Unrealized dreams. I imagine you must feel that when you look back at when you first adopted Kay.
But here we are, on this day, at this place.
I think we have to continue to change direction. Absolutely. We have to rebuild ourselves to be better and stronger, more confident and most of all different than who we were before we fell. All the love we had for our babies was not enough and we are not at fault. Any of us.
I know it goes against everything we ever felt we would do as a parent...to change, to separate, to move on. We risk being judged. We even judge ourselves at times.
But, in all honesty, I have never met a woman in this room that didn't just want to be accepted for who she was, and to be assured that she did her best as a parent.
We're all Phoenix birds, arising from our own ashes...
We're survivors of our own lives.
We Are Legend.
Thanks for being here.
Do something good for yourself this weekend. ♡

 

[louise2350]

Hello, and welcome Louise. I am sorry you had to find this site, but glad that you made it here where you are safe to tell your story and express your feelings. That being said, I'll say first off that your feelings are all valid. I too have a daughter (who's also my middle child), who one day out of the blue disconnected with me. That was over 6 years ago. I was left with a sadness in the deepest recesses of my being that churned inside of me day in and day out. It took hold and no matter what, would not let go.
All these years later, I've managed to put it in a compartment in my brain that I try to not think about, but sometimes, (like coming across your post, or having her creep into my dreams) I'm forced to look at it and re-examine it once again.

Like you, I have no idea why my daughter broke away from the family. Like you, she'd accused me at times of caring about her brothers more than I ever cared about her. She said she wished she had never been born. That she thought she was adopted. Not true. Like you, my daughter keeps contact with her brothers, but it is secreted from me and that is very hurtful. When she married about 5 years ago, she sent wedding invitations to her brothers, but excluded me from the wedding. That was when I truly realized that the mother/daughter relationship had ended. Last I heard, she lists her best friend from childhood's family as her own on Facebook. Mother, Father, sisters and brothers....she has essentially created a new alternate existence for herself.
This in itself is a deep subject that I can't figure out, so I'll just leave it alone.
You know, I see so many articles on the internet these days of adult kids, in particular, disowning their families.
It's like a fad, A cult. Something.
There's a convergence in this new millennium population, wherein the act like people and things are so disposable. Many have no true connection to any one or any thing.
I really do think that has something to do with it.
If the practice of cutting off your parents is so widely accepted (and I never heard of it in my day) then these kids feel absolutely no guilt about shutting out their parents without explanation. I have also read about this so-called Toxic Family Syndrome, brought on by new-wave psychologists, that encourage adult children to get rid of their biological families because of "toxic" child-rearing practices. The lists of what constitutes "toxic" is long and tedious, and are some down right stupid in my humble opinion, so I won't bore you with them.
As far as my daughter is concerned, I have finally just let go of her. She was of me but not a true part of me and now she'll make the rest of her journey as she has chosen. (I might add that she is my spitting image...eyes, hair, face, etc so, so much for getting away from me when mirrors are around!).
I do feel your pain. It's very true and deep. It's sadness, anger, betrayal, mistrust. There's a very finite line in your heart when you feel you've lost the confidence of your children, and of other family members to boot.
I might add that subsequently, my youngest son got married a few months ago and invited his dad, but not me. Definitely a kick in the shins.
Smh.
Like the family you once loved and trusted...the family that you nurtured and depended on just decided to up and move camp and you get left behind. Not a good feeling. I know.
If you're worried that people are judging you, my guess is some are, some aren't. If you're wondering if people know more than they're letting on, my guess is some are, some aren't and some don't care.
More people than you realise are in the same boat that you and I are in. They have teenage or adult children who have cut bait with no excuse, or have lied to others about their relationship with their parents/family.
Sorry to say that in the end there's not a lot you can do about any of it.
You can let time heal you.
Get involved in something outside yourself. Anything.
Eat good foods. Develop good sleep hygiene. Join a gym. Take up a craft. MeetUp.com has a gazillion things you can get involved in. It might help to take down old family photos for awhile. Stash 'em but don't trash 'em.
If you can afford it, get a therapist.
Look into a 12 step help group. Whatever will work best for you.
I like to limit my personal information on a 'need to know' basis. I've found that over the years, most people don't 'need to know'.
This is a lonely place you are in.
I've been there.
Oh, and last but not least I would NOT under any circumstances, babysit, house sit, dog sit or cat sit for any family member who felt comfortable with me being rejected from the family circle. And I don't.
Let me be clear. I would never EVER ask my kids or relatives to "take sides" for me.
I have a side already, and I'm on it!
I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was a great Mom...to all my kids, equally. There is always going to be that "you loved my brother or sister more" going on. It's the oldest trick in the book. I will not and do not buy it. Nope nope nope.
Anyways, sorry to drone on.
This subject, as I said, hit a nerve.
I have no surefire answers for our dilema, only to say that I know you never would have chosen things to end up this way.
Time to take care of you now.
Hugs.

Never explain - your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard

 

[louise2350]

Thank you, Chase, for your input on this subject. My middle disconnected daughter, too, would say she wished she hadn't been born. We do have a lot in common as far as this disconnect goes. Like I mentioned before this all started because of something she posted on fb and I told her (not in a nice way) that what she posted wasn't right and she shouldn't have posted it - it had nothing to do with family, etc. After that message I sent her, she sent me back a message saying never to get in touch with her, etc. Many times, I called and e-mailed her to try and repair things, apologizing, but no response. Her sisters are invited to events she has, but not me. I know there must be more to this than her receiving a message online from me over something she posted. My disconnected daughter would be convinced to let her mother go or any member of the family if she read articles about, as you say, the latest on toxic parents, etc. She'd be convinced that I was one of those toxic parents, although I put more energy into her and her problems and unknowingly ignored the other two during tough times as she was growing up. The other two love and respect me and you'd think with me putting all my energy into the middle daughter, trying to fix her that the other two would resent me. I still pray for my middle because the man she married isn't the type a mother would want for her daughter to marry and I do believe this also has a lot to do with her state of mind. I haven't seen my grandchild from this daughter since the granddaughter was 7 months old. Thank God I have my other four grandchildren to spoil.

It's so soothing to read your post and to know someone else is out there who's experiencing the same circumstances I am facing. I have thought of going to therapy - I can afford it, but just haven't done it yet and for someone who hasn't experienced all of this whether they are a professional or not, I don't think they can fully understand how one feels. Thank you again.

 

[louise2350]

Hello, and welcome Louise. I am sorry you had to find this site, but glad that you made it here where you are safe to tell your story and express your feelings. That being said, I'll say first off that your feelings are all valid. I too have a daughter (who's also my middle child), who one day out of the blue disconnected with me. That was over 6 years ago. I was left with a sadness in the deepest recesses of my being that churned inside of me day in and day out. It took hold and no matter what, would not let go.
All these years later, I've managed to put it in a compartment in my brain that I try to not think about, but sometimes, (like coming across your post, or having her creep into my dreams) I'm forced to look at it and re-examine it once again.

Like you, I have no idea why my daughter broke away from the family. Like you, she'd accused me at times of caring about her brothers more than I ever cared about her. She said she wished she had never been born. That she thought she was adopted. Not true. Like you, my daughter keeps contact with her brothers, but it is secreted from me and that is very hurtful. When she married about 5 years ago, she sent wedding invitations to her brothers, but excluded me from the wedding. That was when I truly realized that the mother/daughter relationship had ended. Last I heard, she lists her best friend from childhood's family as her own on Facebook. Mother, Father, sisters and brothers....she has essentially created a new alternate existence for herself.
This in itself is a deep subject that I can't figure out, so I'll just leave it alone.
You know, I see so many articles on the internet these days of adult kids, in particular, disowning their families.
It's like a fad, A cult. Something.
There's a convergence in this new millennium population, wherein the act like people and things are so disposable. Many have no true connection to any one or any thing.
I really do think that has something to do with it.
If the practice of cutting off your parents is so widely accepted (and I never heard of it in my day) then these kids feel absolutely no guilt about shutting out their parents without explanation. I have also read about this so-called Toxic Family Syndrome, brought on by new-wave psychologists, that encourage adult children to get rid of their biological families because of "toxic" child-rearing practices. The lists of what constitutes "toxic" is long and tedious, and are some down right stupid in my humble opinion, so I won't bore you with them.
As far as my daughter is concerned, I have finally just let go of her. She was of me but not a true part of me and now she'll make the rest of her journey as she has chosen. (I might add that she is my spitting image...eyes, hair, face, etc so, so much for getting away from me when mirrors are around!).
I do feel your pain. It's very true and deep. It's sadness, anger, betrayal, mistrust. There's a very finite line in your heart when you feel you've lost the confidence of your children, and of other family members to boot.
I might add that subsequently, my youngest son got married a few months ago and invited his dad, but not me. Definitely a kick in the shins.
Smh.
Like the family you once loved and trusted...the family that you nurtured and depended on just decided to up and move camp and you get left behind. Not a good feeling. I know.
If you're worried that people are judging you, my guess is some are, some aren't. If you're wondering if people know more than they're letting on, my guess is some are, some aren't and some don't care.
More people than you realise are in the same boat that you and I are in. They have teenage or adult children who have cut bait with no excuse, or have lied to others about their relationship with their parents/family.
Sorry to say that in the end there's not a lot you can do about any of it.
You can let time heal you.
Get involved in something outside yourself. Anything.
Eat good foods. Develop good sleep hygiene. Join a gym. Take up a craft. MeetUp.com has a gazillion things you can get involved in. It might help to take down old family photos for awhile. Stash 'em but don't trash 'em.
If you can afford it, get a therapist.
Look into a 12 step help group. Whatever will work best for you.
I like to limit my personal information on a 'need to know' basis. I've found that over the years, most people don't 'need to know'.
This is a lonely place you are in.
I've been there.
Oh, and last but not least I would NOT under any circumstances, babysit, house sit, dog sit or cat sit for any family member who felt comfortable with me being rejected from the family circle. And I don't.
Let me be clear. I would never EVER ask my kids or relatives to "take sides" for me.
I have a side already, and I'm on it!
I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was a great Mom...to all my kids, equally. There is always going to be that "you loved my brother or sister more" going on. It's the oldest trick in the book. I will not and do not buy it. Nope nope nope.
Anyways, sorry to drone on.
This subject, as I said, hit a nerve.
I have no surefire answers for our dilema, only to say that I know you never would have chosen things to end up this way.
Time to take care of you now.
Hugs.

Never explain - your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard

 

[louise2350]

Chase: One more thing, about my youngest asking me to babysit while "I thought" she was attending a party my disconnected was giving. Well, I was wrong in thinking that. The event my youngest is going to is really a wedding but I assumed it was some event my disconnected was giving since it was in the same state my disconnected lives in and it is on my disconnected daughter's birthday. I spoke to my youngest daughter over my suspicions that she really was attending a birthday party for my disconnected but she assured me she wasn't and even offered to show me the invitation to the wedding. I just said that I hoped she knew never to ask me to babysit if she was attending some event my disconnected was having and I feel bad about all of my suspicions that she was going to go to a party my disconnected was giving, but the other two daughters do see my disconnected daughter when they are invited to her events and since the wedding is going to be held in the same state and on my disconnected's birthday, I wrongly assumed that it was a party and not a wedding my youngest was going to held by my disconnected daughter.

 

[BusynMember1]

Louise, wow. We do have much in common...all three of us. Kay has called me a narcissist which is the new hip word for all things wrong that a parent does. In their minds.

I am convinced that some people are born more negative and critical than average. That is Kay. Nothing pleased her. Nothing. Nor does she see reality as others did or do. She is not even happy with Lee or in love with Jaden, as I was with her...I still do love her, but I have detached.

What makes Kay doubly hard for me to understand is that my husband and I are basically optimistic, happy people. Or we were. So we tried to get Kay to look at the bright side of things, which never worked. She was born to look at everything through dark lenses. This, more than anything, is why I have little hope for Kay. She is sure that everything is not going to work out so she won't try. She writes the end of her own story as a tragedy.

Old ideas about parental bonds and family have changed in my opinion. Old psychological theories in my opinion have been put to rest and proven wrong. I can see that not all kids love their parents. If you can walk out of somebody's life with no regrets, that is not love. If you abuse somebody, that is not real love. Not from a spouse or a child. Would we try to claim that an abusive partner loves us? Of course not. The partner may say he loves the one who is abused, but that is gaslighting.

Kay wants nothing to do with us because we are done paying her bills. We are still here for her for empowerment, love and emotional support. Shouldn't that be enough if they love us? Did we expect a boatload of financially support from our parents? Did we not love them anyways?

I am so sorry for both of you and for me. I never thought of it, bit if Amy and Rick were okay with how Kay treats their father and me, and if they participated in her life knowing that we could not, it would sting us. We would never try to stop them, but we would probably feel a little resentment and distance toward them. It would be hard not to feel those emotions.

God bless all of us who are disconnected from a child or children.

 

[louise2350]

Louise, wow. We do have much in common...all three of us. Kay has called me a narcissist which is the new hip word for all things wrong that a parent does. In their minds.

I am convinced that some people are born more negative and critical than average. That is Kay. Nothing pleased her. Nothing. Nor does she see reality as others did or do. She is not even happy with Lee or in love with Jaden, as I was with her...I still do love her, but I have detached.

What makes Kay doubly hard for me to understand is that my husband and I are basically optimistic, happy people. Or we were. So we tried to get Kay to look at the bright side of things, which never worked. She was born to look at everything through dark lenses. This, more than anything, is why I have little hope for Kay. She is sure that everything is not going to work out so she won't try. She writes the end of her own story as a tragedy.

Old ideas about parental bonds and family have changed in my opinion. Old psychological theories in my opinion have been put to rest and proven wrong. I can see that not all kids love their parents. If you can walk out of somebody's life with no regrets, that is not love. If you abuse somebody, that is not real love. Not from a spouse or a child. Would we try to claim that an abusive partner loves us? Of course not. The partner may say he loves the one who is abused, but that is gaslighting.

Kay wants nothing to do with us because we are done paying her bills. We are still here for her for empowerment, love and emotional support. Shouldn't that be enough if they love us? Did we expect a boatload of financially support from our parents? Did we not love them anyways?

I am so sorry for both of you and for me. I never thought of it, bit if Amy and Rick were okay with how Kay treats their father and me, and if they participated in her life knowing that we could not, it would sting us. We would never try to stop them, but we would probably feel a little resentment and distance toward them. It would be hard not to feel those emotions.

God bless all of us who are disconnected from a child or children.

 

[louise2350]

Louise, wow. We do have much in common...all three of us. Kay has called me a narcissist which is the new hip word for all things wrong that a parent does. In their minds.

I am convinced that some people are born more negative and critical than average. That is Kay. Nothing pleased her. Nothing. Nor does she see reality as others did or do. She is not even happy with Lee or in love with Jaden, as I was with her...I still do love her, but I have detached.

What makes Kay doubly hard for me to understand is that my husband and I are basically optimistic, happy people. Or we were. So we tried to get Kay to look at the bright side of things, which never worked. She was born to look at everything through dark lenses. This, more than anything, is why I have little hope for Kay. She is sure that everything is not going to work out so she won't try. She writes the end of her own story as a tragedy.

Old ideas about parental bonds and family have changed in my opinion. Old psychological theories in my opinion have been put to rest and proven wrong. I can see that not all kids love their parents. If you can walk out of somebody's life with no regrets, that is not love. If you abuse somebody, that is not real love. Not from a spouse or a child. Would we try to claim that an abusive partner loves us? Of course not. The partner may say he loves the one who is abused, but that is gaslighting.

Kay wants nothing to do with us because we are done paying her bills. We are still here for her for empowerment, love and emotional support. Shouldn't that be enough if they love us? Did we expect a boatload of financially support from our parents? Did we not love them anyways?

I am so sorry for both of you and for me. I never thought of it, bit if Amy and Rick were okay with how Kay treats their father and me, and if they participated in her life knowing that we could not, it would sting us. We would never try to stop them, but we would probably feel a little resentment and distance toward them. It would be hard not to feel those emotions.

God bless all of us who are disconnected from a child or children.

 

[louise2350]

Busy: It's an impossible situation that both Chase and I are in, but what can we do? It doesn't feel right if I told my other two if they continued to have a relationship with this sister who has cut me out of her life, then I don't want a relationship with them either. That doesn't seem right and although I keep quiet, it still does hurt. I sometimes wonder if the other two realize this. My oldest daughter did ask her father to speak to the disconnected one about getting in touch with me. I told her not to do that again as their father and I have been divorced now for 16 years and I don't want him involved . So, I guess all you can do is live day by day and stop hoping for things to change. The other two daughters aren't like this middle one at all. I think they are doing the best that they can under the circumstances and they know this middle daughter's personality. They didn't start all of this - the disconnected one did. I couldn't imagine them cutting me out of their lives. Thanks for your share. It always helps.

 

[BusynMember1]

The problem I think is that most people, myself included, try not to take sides. Likely the girls love both of you and are trapped by middle daughter and maybe her child moreso.

My kids simply had no choice as to whether or not to have a relationship with Kay. She stole from them, physically assaulted my son and once threw glass at his head almost hitting him and committing other crimes against them both. She also created scenes in public that embarrassed both of them. The kids were done with Kay before she was done with me.

Your disconnected daughters were both more coniving, making nice to their siblings and in my opinion using them to hurt you. And your nice kids have no idea what to do, but they don't want to be in the middle of it. Under different circumstances I don't know what my kids would do either.

I am so sad for both of you and sad for myself too. This is not how we thought of Family when we married.

Times have sure changed.

 

[Blindsided]

Good morning JP. When I began here on this forum, and for a long time after, I had a problem with this concept, leaving the rest.

I felt that it gave cover for some posters to write whatever they wanted, a lot of it hurtful and judgmental and sometimes thoughtless, and not take responsibility to do better.

But the reality is that I did not take responsibility for my own lack of adequate boundaries, and I did not see that I was lacking something critical which was the ability to let things be. Is this detachment?

That all kinds of strands of thought, feelings, ways of being, attitudes existed simultaneously and they did not have to be responded to, molded, rejected, or even named. They could just be there. Because they always were. That I did not have to take them in like a sponge. I did not have to make them right or wrong. I did not have to make them about me.

I did not have to take responsibility. To fix anything. To straighten anything else. And I did not have to defend myself.

The underlying dynamic at work here was: It was not my fault. That at the extreme somebody could be a bully or out of control, and I was not responsible to take the fire, or to stop them, or to pick up the slack.

And that I was not automatically the target if there was ill will, or blaming. That I had the ability to let it be, too. Unless I chose to be, I was not a target. I was not the guilty party. Nobody here really knew me. I didn't have to raise my hand.

But it is still very hard. Because what shows up here if we stay long enough is us. And other people show up too.

So. Now I see this biproduct of the forum as one of the greatest gifts. Because what can show up is the space between the words. The feelings and weak parts that I didn't necessarily want to speak, write, see or experience. And I think this is so for many of us here.

As I write this I feel shame and fear, because I expose myself to mocking, derision, impatience, and even attack, by self-exposure. I see this often online. When women especially (authors, bloggers, etc.) are ridiculed for self-disclosure. And I see it in the me too movement. What these people have in common is that they wanted something greatly * even to be, to have a voice, and they were exposed to hurt.

I want to be somebody who can be open. And yet I fear very much what can happen. That's why take what you want and leave the rest has been so hard for me. Because I (still) am operating as if I do not have the resources or power to stop somebody from hurting me, if they want to.

Yesterday I the title of an article in one of the papers caught my eye about Rose McGowan and the me too movement. I didn't read it. But it was something like, I don't care. I'm going to speak my truth. No matter what happens. I was afraid to read it. This amalgam of courage and vulnerability. There was shame.

So this is where they would be growth. Just like here on this thread.

There is another thread going on now that has an unintended discussion about religion and spirituality--and the question of what is appropriate and acceptable. And some of us came to the belief that the best course was openness. That the greater risk was bullying. The need to have one voice, only one narrative.

And when I thought about it, that was why I must have so much trouble with "take what you like." Not because I can't tolerate others having their thoughts and beliefs, but that I had trouble holding onto myself, in the face of criticism or opposition or even a very strong and certain voice.

How does one hold onto their self? What does that mean? I am taking a short mini-course and the instructor spoke about how in mystical thought, there is the principle that every one of us is born with one compelling purpose, something to work out for our soul. She put it this way:

What is our soul requiring of us before we die?

To discover who we are and become that person. To become who I was meant to become. To discover who I am and become that person, Is how she put it. She calls this a sacred purpose.

We come here to this forum to work out our kids. And we stay here to work out ourselves.

It's not so easy for me to think about these things. But I think I've come closer in this post. I think for me, it has something to do with self-expression, openness to myself others and being safe. Thank you.

I want to thank you very much for this opportunity to think this through on this thread.

PS Blindsided has a quote in her signature I want to acknowledge. “Putting a voice to your soul helps you to let go of the negative energy of fear and regret."
― Shannon L. Alder, Author

We are certainly a work in progress.

I somehow missed a lot of notifications and we were traveling to our winter place, so not sure I can catch up. I keep responding, then losing the thread. Urgh!

I feel I too work through things in my response to others. I can always find something on which I connect, even when my circumstances are different.

I love that quote and find strength in the wisdom of others.

In healing

 

[Beta]

I can't get my quote thing to work right now, but I read through all the posts, and this stuck out:
We miss our lost children and the people they will never be. Unrealized dreams. I imagine you must feel that when you look back at when you first adopted Kay.
This is how I feel about Josh. I've lost the Josh we once knew and loved, and I've lost the Josh he could have been. He had SO much: looks, intelligence, athletic ability, a good loving family, and he threw it away. And in his place, we now have a lying, manipulative, abusive, profane, callous person who cares nothing about us.

This past week, I sent him $70 early in the week through Walmart for food because I just wanted to make sure he had food to eat. Then, Thursday I offered to order a winter coat for him on Walmart's site. He said he wanted one of those work coats that are insulated. Well, the only one they had was not a "pick up" item. It had to be delivered, which I knew wouldn't work with how he is living right now, so I took a chance and sent him another $70 that day so he could buy a coat. He said he would buy one today at Walmart or go downtown to Denver.

Well, I just texted him to see whether he got the coat. His response: "Sorry, I spent it on food and beer."
I was furious, and I told him I thought he is selfish, manipulative, and deceitful. I told him that it took me a week to earn that money from my part-time job, and how dare he treat someone like this. He couldn't have cared less. He showed no remorse or concern whatsoever.

I am so angry, but even more than that, I just feel so much hurt that someone could treat their mother this way and be so completely unfeeling. My Josh is gone, and I grieve the loss of him. This Josh---I want nothing to do with him.

 

[Copabanana]

My Josh is gone, and I grieve the loss of him. This Josh---I want nothing to do with him.

Many times on this site has been posted the truth that what we do for our kids, we do for ourselves...so that we can look in the mirror. As so, was this. You never had any control over how he used that money. Your intention was that he buy the coat. Universally, on this site, we have seen that what we want for our adult children, is just that, our wants. You have the choice to let go now, to accept that you sent that money off, with love, and hope, that he use it to keep warm. He chose not to.

Had you bought the actual coat, there is no guarantee he would have kept it any longer than it took to sell or trade it for something he wanted better. Josh right now is Josh. He is not who you wish he would be. You have no control here except over your own reactions and responses. But he is your son. I have found in my own situation it is not so easy to let go entirely. Perhaps, you can. Maybe not. For some of us it is a question of accepting the reality of what is right now.

 

[BusynMember1]

I remember the day we brought Kay home and stepped off the airplane to a huge family gathering with signs and flowers. Kay has always been beautiful. Even as a baby she had thick soft dark hair, puppy dog eyes, carmel skin and heart shaped pink lips. And dimples!!! And we had her wrapped in a gorgeous pink blanket. My heart was so full. I expected this to be my only child and she was perfect to me. In a foolish motherly leap of faith, I already had her thriving in private school, in college and a Sorority and then working at our then new company. I had everything mapped out. We would be so close, so loving. She would be a dream daughter.

Of course, that image started cracking as soon as she started struggling in school and was yanked from private school. She had violent tantrums but I didn't really believe she wouldn't snap out of it until it got so bad in her teens
that we sent her to a behavioral high school, a boarding school for troubled kids.

It went downhill when she came home and met Lee.

My husband and I were shell shocked. Kay was on drugs, not working and had turned hateful. Everything in our life focused on fixing her but everything we did made things worse.

I never even entertained the idea that this daughter would become who she is. Ever.

Kay had it all too. Yes, she had learning disabilities but we paid for great tutors. We encouraged her amazing musical gifts which she no longer uses. She was and is tall and beautiful, her skin now marred with several tacky, large tattoos, one on her neck. She has a smaller pot related tattoo on her arm. She dresses in clothes that show every nook and cranny. Very low cut. Hair that turns from pink to green to yellow (not blond....canary yellow).

Oh well. It is what it is. I wanted the world for Kay. I learned not to decide how others will or should be, including my other kids.

I feel your pain with Josh. I too don't know Kay anymore and don't want this person in my life. Not now at least. One day? I hope so.

 

[louise2350]

Alcohol and drugs do change a person so drastically and it's so sad, not being able to fix your loved ones. I'm sure Busy, at times Kay does look into herself and regrets things she has done to you and your family and knows you and your husband did such a kind act by adopting her. I hope things improve and I still believe in miracles.