Argh! Kid is a mess. And very volatile mess for that

[BusynMember]

Lil, beating him would not have made him different. Well, it may have made him worse and probably he would have left home on his own as soon as he could and possibly turned to crime or drugs. He hasn't done that.

Beating, even spanking, doesn't make a child a better adult. I did not discipline enough either, but, if I had, I would have used more mainstream tactics and would never have thought that beating my kid would have made it better. Don't think like that. And, trust me, two of my kids were EXTREMELY difficult teens and Bart was a difficult child. We used time outs. Sonic was very hard when we first got him due to his autism, but we didn't hit any of them.

Lil, no, your not using corporal punishment is not why he is like this.

Suzir, sharing your story was extremely brave and I commend how you saw your wrongs and made them right. You are human, as we all are, and nobody writes manuals on how to parent difficult children. The love you have for both of your children shines through in your posts and I'm sure ache is secure in your love of him.

 

[Lil]

Lil, beating him would not have made him different.

I don't think it would have SWOT. I was just pointing out that desperate times make desperate people. After all these years, now that it's too late to make any difference, that thought had popped into my mind.

 

[SuZir]

I think that for punishments to work a kid (or adult) has to consider risks and benefits of their actions beforehand. Consider what they may benefit from planned action, how likely it is they would get caught and what the punishment would be if caught. Ache fails out in the 'planned activity' or at the latest 'consider benefits and risks' part of all that. And what you have told us about your son Lil, I would bet he doesn't really learn well from punishments either. And if a child, or an adult, is a type that does well in considering their actions beforehand and weighing risks and benefits, often the very token punishments are enough. For example for our Joy shaking a finger in front his face and telling that something was not nice tended to be enough. We did ground him at times or cut his allowance for a week or two or when he was younger time outed him or his favourite toy for a moment or denied screen time for a day, but I believe most of that was completely unnecessary. Just clearly expressed parental displeasure would had been enough. In fact they have done some studies with adults and feeling of narrowly escaping a punishment can be the better deterrent than being punished. It may sound odd, but it works for certain everyday crimes we commit. Around here if you are speeding mildly, the police can decide if they give you a speeding ticket or written warning. Studies have shown that people who get off with the warning will be more careful and follow the speed limits better than those who got the ticket. They speculate that people who got the ticket felt they paid the consequences, while those who got the warning feel they got lucky and do not want to push their luck any more.

Ache didn't want to cause parental displeasure any more than Joy, but from his point of view things just happened to him, where Joy planned, evaluated and then did things. And then when Ache was in trouble, anxiety kicked in and he got stuck, which we considered stubbornness or provocation. Doesn't make me feel too good to consider that there we were upping and piling punishment over punishment while a kid was so panicked he simply couldn't get his act together and act in the way that we would had considered appropriate or cooperative and which would had made us stop piling those punishments. We did learn what worked with him and what not, but still we at times forgot and went back to things that should work, even though they had never worked before with him. It is often difficult to forget 'the right way' in favour of 'well, it works' especially when everyone around you considers that problems your kid has are because you are not being consistent with 'the right way.' But every time we tried to do things 'the right way', we ended up in absurd situations. For example, if you have a young teen kid and you consistently punish them with grounding and taking away allowance and screen time and if they sneak out during grounding or commit same offence again, you drastically up the punishment. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Now, what do you do, then after the latest offence your kid is supposed to be grounded for few hundred years? Consistency my a**.

 

[Lil]

Ache didn't want to cause parental displeasure any more than Joy, but from his point of view things just happened to him,

This is just like my son. He doesn't seem to have any concept that what happens to him is a result of choices he has made.

He acts like these bad things have happened to him. He's remarked that he's in this situation because, "people let him down", etc. Noooo...he's in this situation because HE stole from us and was put out of our house, then refused to get and keep a job to save up money until he could support himself. This isn't something that "just happened" like getting cancer or being hit by a car when you have the right of way.

When he was little, I think we were very consistent. He was a tantrum thrower. Not once did he get away with it. As a teen, we kind of operated on a one-strike rule. Kids mess up. So, if he broke curfew, 1st time was a warning. 2nd time was punishment. But it didn't matter. He actually was never in any serious trouble...so I don't know where this all came from.

 

[SuZir]

He acts like these bad things have happened to him. He's remarked that he's in this situation because, "people let him down", etc. Noooo...he's in this situation because HE stole from us and was put out of our house, then refused to get and keep a job to save up money until he could support himself. This isn't something that "just happened" like getting cancer or being hit by a car when you have the right of way.

Ache in fact nowadays often does take responsibility for his actions and where those have gotten him, but

a) it is recent development, maybe last three, four at tops, years and it is still not always consistent. I would say that turning point was somewhere around the time he started to see his sport psychologist, which was three years ago, couple months before he turned 19.

b) it is not always healthy or accurate either. Sometimes he instead of seeing it was his mistakes or actions that caused unfortunate to happen sees it so, that it is his inner core that is wrong and causes things to happen. That because he is worthless, bad things happen instead of that because he didn't pay attention or was not organised he forgot to pay a bill and now faces bigger collecting fees than the actual bill was.

c) he is still not that good at planning ahead. His impulse control is still poor. It is better it was five years ago, but that doesn't make it good or even adequate.

It is a process, but there is hope. Our boys are still young even though legal adults. Their brain development is still in the progress and they actually will learn many things still. Some iof those things may even be useful.