Behavior has spiraled out of control...again

Dara

New Member
Sammy has been with 3 neurologists and finally we have a good one. He has had EEGs MRIs never a PET scan, I am not sure I know what that is. Psychiatrists wont see him because he is only 3. He is in ABA therapy and has been with them since he turned 1. We went to a neuropsychologist who didnt even look at him but spoke in circles around us. I think that is all we have. We are going to get him evaluated with speech we are waiting to be tested through the school district but that wont be until july 30th so we need something in the meantime. Really all of the delays he has it always comes back to behavior. I must go now, a tantrum is beginning....
 

smallworld

Moderator
I have several friends whose children have issues that lie on the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) spectrum. They see on a regular basis a developmental pediatrician who acts as a sort of case manager. He has come up with a treatment plan, complete with referrals to various specialists in speech, Occupational Therapist (OT), social skills training, therapy, school advocacy, etc. If medication is indicated, he is the one who prescribes it. I'm wondering if there's a developmental pediatrician in your area who could play such a role for you. That might be a way to get on track with helping Sammy.
 

SRL

Active Member
I believe she's seen a developmental pediatrician within the last two weeks who gave the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) diagnosis along with a lot of possibilities to check out for interventions.

It's tough standing in these crossroads!
 

smallworld

Moderator
SRL, I think you're right. But is the dev pediatrician going to follow Sammy and continue to treat him? Or was it just for diagnostic purposes? My friends actually go to their dev pediatrician every month or two to chart progress and see what else needs to be done.
 

SRL

Active Member
We had fairly frequent followup visits until therapy was in place, then they backed down to every 3 months until we had a medication need. It was good to know the appointment was on the books.
 

Dara

New Member
The Develp pediatrician doesnt want to see Sammy for 6-12 months. I think it was for diagnostic purposes. He gave us a list of people but didnt really give us advice on how we can handle him and what the best option is. He basically gave us the list and said here are names. We are very lucky that our pediatrician. is very in tune to Sammy and his staff understand his quirks. I am interested to see what He and Sammys therapist come up with. On a good note, Sammy took a bath on my lap but he played and enjoyed it so baby steps there! A lot of the issue is Sammy is not in control of his emotions. Lately he even rages when he gets what he wants. Now the problem is, He is so busy raging that he wont use his words so we are going to have a massive regression. We are not letting him have what he wants from whispering or grunting. We tell him "say I want juice" and he just screams so he gets no juice until he asks. Believe me if he really wants something he will use his words... It is always nice to come here. I always feel such a sense of comfort. I have to thank you all for that and all of your wisdom!
 

smallworld

Moderator
Dara, because your dev pediatrician isn't going to follow Sammy closely, that's why it might be helpful to find one who could be your case manager. I adore our pediatrician -- and he has bailed us out of many a bad situation -- but he doesn't have the in-depth knowledge of the kinds of mental health issues my children are dealing with. He's more of a generalist. That's why we found a child psychiatrist for each of my three children, who coordinates mental health care and acts as the point person for the rest of the team (neurologist, neuropsychologist, endocrinologist, pediatrician, educational consultant, academic tutor, etc). In your case, a dev pediatrician would be a logical case manager.
 
Dara,

I had a very wise doctor once tell me (back when my Tink was about 3 and throwing fits for no apparant reason) that if your child is in the middle of a tantrum, and you whisper what you want the child to hear, eventually they will be quiet so that they can hear you. It did work for her. Your Sammy may have different issues, and it may not work for him, but it sure would be worth a try. You would have to give it time; it did not work at first. The calmer you are, the better it works to. When she would quiet down to hear me, you could almost see her catch herself, like "what was I doing just then? was I just throwing a fit?" and more often than not, she would run to me for comfort.

Can't hurt to try.
 

Dara

New Member
We are pretty much trying to restructure the team of support we have. We want to make sure it is a group of people who actually listen to what we say as opposed to someone who says what he wants without listening to our concerns... Thanks for all of the support. I am going becuase once again a tantrum is begining!
 

Steely

Active Member
Hi Dara,

Here are my thoughts, although I am not sure if they are helpful, some of them might be worth a try.

One of the things I did when Mat was out of control, and beyond anyone knowing what to do with him, is contact our medical school here in Dallas and start networking. On any given day, most medical schools have a million different research projects going on in the mental health field. They also have some of the best doctors in the city, because these doctors are professors, researchers, and doctors. They tend to be on the cutting edge of science, technology, and information as well as having access to an abundance of resources.

That being said, Houston has a great Medical School called The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston Medical School, that I think I would look into for Sammy. I think I would just get on the phone and start networking through their school, to see who may be the expert in neurology, pyschology, children, etc. and then go from there to see what programs, testing, and resources they offer. A lot of these schools also have research programs that you can be a part of if you choose, which if you qualify, give you the best one on one care you could possibly imagine because the doctors and researchers follow your every move. We looked into a bi-polar study for Mat, but at the time he did not qualify. I was really dissapointed, but it still got me in touch with more people that could help.

Once you form and find a team of people that seem really invested in helping Sammy, I would propose to them the idea of a PET scan. This is a new research tool that maps the brain in color images, to show activity in each area of the brain. It is going to be really rare that a Dr would offer this - however - the medical school might be a place where this is more common. Also given the PET scans new popularity, and Sammy's intense issues, it may be something the right Dr would really want to do.

The other things that come to my mind are and I would ask the right Dr are:
-I wonder if Sammy is having small seizures that are triggering his outbursts since his anger sometimes seem so unprovoked
-Could he be observed by a team of professionals for a day, or more, to get their evaluations?
-Possible mild medications, although he is so young, that may help him be able to calm down enough to function
-What psychological testing is available for kids at this age (I know Mat had testing done at age 4, so I am not sure how old they need to be)

I hope some of these ideas help....
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Dara, I've read all the responses. I'm on board with the parent who thinks the behavior could be/is likely Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) related, although it's hard to get a doctor to commit to that diagnosis. at a young age. I would stick with the Dev. Pediatrician and maybe try another neuropsychologist. Neuropsychs who are good are fantastic diagnosticians. Sounds like you had a lemon. My son is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. As a toddler, he had a speech delay, social delays, and was so frustrated he had the tantrums from hello. They were not psychiatric reasons. He didn't understand our world, was greatly frustrated, and lashed out when frustrated or when his ordered world was disturbed even in a mild way. He has always had interventions consistent with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), because we forced them to give him those interventions, even without a diagnosis, so he is now going to turn fourteen and a sweeter, more easygoing child doesn't exist. This is my tantrummer!!! He had so much speech intervention. When he hit about 4 1/2 he broke into speech, seemingly overnight (he always grew in spurts) and his tantrums fizzled out as soon as he could communicate. He still had some weird delays and seemed hyper-out-of-control. He had two wrong diagnoses: ADHD/ODD first (stimulants were not fun here) and then bipolar disorder, which was weird since he no longer raged. However, he is "quirky" and would talk to himself in an empty room (he still talks to his television and videogames), so the psychiatrist mistakenly thought he was hallucinating. He's not, and never talks to himself when he thinks anyone can hear him. He is very grounded in reality. It was a horrible diagnosis--he never even had moodswings (not since he learned to talk). In all, he was placed on a total of over ten medications that he didn't need and that didn't really work. He is doing great three years after his Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified diagnosis and is medication free (although some Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids do need medications). My advice is to look around and keep an open mind about what could be wrong. Each diagnosis sort of mimics the others, but the treatments for each one are very different. For ADHD, it's stimulants. For bipolar, mood stabilizers and antipsychotics. For Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), the best you can do for your child is intensive interventions: Occupational Therapist (OT), PT, social skills, sometimes an aide or Learning Disability (LD) class helps with focus. Also, as parents we need to learn what triggers our children and work around that. in my opinion a PET test won't help...to date, there is no test that the medical community believes can find a disorder with brain pictures. I just had a CAT scan of the brain and it was normal, in spite of having bipolar and neurological issues. I would save the money for the Dev. Pediatrician and the neuropsychologist and work with the school district to get him in interventions. In spite of your liking for the private school, in my opinion public schools know more about childhood disorders and are far more helpful. My son started out in private school, and he didn't learn much until public school placement, where he not only leaped to his potential; he made friends and really, for lack of a better word, "Normalized." He can "pass" as a child who maybe just has ADHD, but he is still on The Spectrum. I hope you are thoughtful and careful in your journey and get many opinions. WHen something starts working for Sammy, then you've hit paydirt. in my opinion I'd back off behavioral therapy right now. Until you know why he is unable to control himself, the behavioral therapist will probably cost a lot and do very little to help you. Although he could be having seizures, in my opinion, I don't feel that's the whole story. Certainly, if he is having some, maybe treating them will help his behavior--it's worth a shot. Everything diagnostic is worth looking into. I hope you get something out of this LONG post. Big hugs to you and little Sam.
 

Dara

New Member
First of all thank you. We do know for sure that his behavior is not caused by seizures. His behavior is controlled for who gets to see or recieve it. He does not act this way in school or in the care of my inlaws or babysitters. He would not tantrum for the therapist until a month ago when Sammy finally hit him! At that point we were all like: Its about time! The neurologist said unless he has 2 brains, it isnt seizures! Seriously, we are willing to do whatever needs to be done. We have had a hard time finding the right doctors for Sammy. In such a big city you have to dig though a lot of bad people! Unless you know someone going through similar stuff here, which we dont, it is hard to find the right people. We continue and grow with everything we learn from everyone! Thank you all!
 

Dara

New Member
They want to do blood work and urine tests on him for Fragile X, Chromosom analysis, Plasma amino acids, and organic acids urine. DOes anyone know anything about these? I am just trying to prep myself in case they have to use a cathader on him
 

smallworld

Moderator
I know the first three are blood tests and will require more blood than can be taken with a finger :censored2:. How does Sammy do with blood tests? Can you get prescription for Emla cream from your pediatrician to numb the area on the forearms where they will draw blood? That might help.

When my son was young and urine was needed, the pediatrician's office simply put a bag on him to catch the urine. It helps to bring along a favorite drink to make sure he pees. Of course, I don't know if the test ordered will be performed that way.
 

Dara

New Member
Hi there! Sammy made it through the bloodwork. Unfortunatly I am ill with a virus so it was a bit nausieting to me but he was a brave little boy! The poor guy, the needle kept slipping and he still was a champ. I am interested to get these results back. THank you for the support!
 
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